9/3/13 Angie PMBG=101 +1.5=146 +6=119 +10=112

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GraceAndAngie

Member Since 2013
I gave 1 tsp of HC food and 1 tsp of HC gravy.
She is asymptomatic. Test in 15 minutes?

I was asleep and she didn't eat 2nd breakfast. Apparently wasn't interested, or the kids were playing and it was overwhelming but she didn't and the other cat ate it for her. She should have eaten that 2 hours ago.
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4=29

I would try to rub some syrup on her gums or if she will eat it, try to add some syrup to her food.
Please test in 15 minutes and let us know.
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29, +4.5=49

She's gone up. Do I still need syrup? I gave her another tsp of HC gravy.
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49

I have no advise but remember your in control and your in the right place and your doing great.
I second marje-breath, guess your getting a reducie now :-D
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49

No, if she went up 20 points with the HC then that tells us something about how carb sensitive she is.
I would probably offer her a little LC or MC (a teaspoon) and test again in 15 minutes.
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +4.75=59

She's at 59 now - half an hour after her very low reading. I gave her 1 tsp of low carb and 1/2 of HC gravy. I don't have any MC, is that mixing HC and MC together?
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +4.75=59

Good.
I think you can test in 30 minutes, now. Hope she continues upwards.
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +4.75=59

GraceAndAngie said:
She's at 59 now - half an hour after her very low reading. I gave her 1 tsp of low carb and 1/2 of HC gravy. I don't have any MC, is that mixing HC and MC together?
Yes MC is mixing HC with LC. You did right.
If you want, you can give her another little bit of LC, but I think she's coming up okay.
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +4.75=59 +5=72

I gave her another LC teaspoon - she did miss 2nd breakfast. Does that mean that she gets a reduction, or not because it was lack of food induced? I'll test again in half an hour.
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +4.75=59 +5=72

She absolutely gets a reduction. Food or not, a 29 is a 29.

Carl
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +4.75=59 +5=72

And a 24 (as it says on your ss) is a 24. Let me get some other eyes on this.

To measure a drop, you push the plunger all the way in and keep it held in tightly the whole time while you push the needle through the rubber stopper, then once the needle is inserted through the vial or pen, you let off the pressure and a little bit of insulin will go into the syringe.

Let's see what others say.

Please test again in 30 minutes. The HC can wear off at any time, but it looks like she's on her way up.
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +4.75=59 +5=72

The 24 and 29 were tested at the same time. I was more confident with the 29 as there was a bigger drop of blood but I though the two confirmed each other. I'm going to test her again now.
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +4.75=59 +5=72 +5.5=113

Great job of handling the numbers! (Has your heart rate come back down yet?)

I'd hold off on any more food and see how Angie's doing at +6. I'd probably get a +7, as well. These numbers may wobble around as the HC wears off so you need to get a few more tests to make sure the numbers don't drop back into lower ranges.
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +4.75=59 +5=72 +5.5=113

My heart rate has come down - but not quite all the way!

I completely panicked when I got that first reading! I ran around in circles and got cross with everyone. I got her eating HC quickly and then tested her again as soon as she had finished her first teaspoon. The second was the lower of the two readings btw so the HC couldn't have kicked in by then. I gave her a teaspoon of gravy, panicked some more, looked at the handling low numbers print out and couldn't read a word. Then I got a hold of myself, thought test 15 minutes after HC and post on the board to get some help.

Marje's remember to breath post came just on time and thankfully she reacted quickly to HC so the panic was short.

Time to test again now.

Thanks again for all your help!
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +4.75=59 +5=72 +5.5=113

There's nothing like a low number to get your heart pumping.
In Ripley's Hypo Box there's a piece of paper on top of the supplies with one word:

Breathe.
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +4.75=59 +5=72 +5.5=113

I'm glad you're breathing!!

I'm not sure what Dyana thinks, but I'm wondering if it makes more sense to stop shooting. Angie is on a tiny bit of insulin and trying to shoot "some" insulin may not be appreciably different than your current dose. On the other hand, on the days when you haven't shot, Angie does bring herself into green numbers. I think you need to weigh the options. Some of Angie's numbers are a little higher than I typically like for an OTJ trial. It may be that holding off on shooting will tell us for sure if Angie's pancreas is ready to do all of the work without the support of insulin. If it's not, we'll know soon enough and you can always re-start insulin. It's your call.
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +4.75=59 +5=72 +5.5=113 +6

Ideally do we want her to keep herself between 120 and 50? Would you normally want her AMPS and PMPS numbers to be under 120?
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +4.75=59 +5=72 +5.5=113 +6

Hi Sienne and Dyana - this is off topic but I just noticed that you both joined on the same day! Was that a coincidence? That's a pretty cool coincidence (if it was one!).
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +4.75=59 +5=72 +5.5=113 +6

You do have to take under consideration that she has come down the dosing scale pretty fast, and with all the skipped shots she's had recently, she may just be trying to tell us she's ready, even if her numbers are a little higher than we normally start a trial with.
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +4.75=59 +5=72 +5.5=113 +6

GraceAndAngie said:
Hi Sienne and Dyana - this is off topic but I just noticed that you both joined on the same day! Was that a coincidence? That's a pretty cool coincidence (if it was one!).
I think that's the day the old board went down and this new one was started.
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +4.75=59 +5=72 +5.5=113 +6

Actually, Dyana pre-dated me. There is an FDMB board that is much older than this one. That board crashed and the webmaster, Rebecca, moved FDMB to a different web server. When we moved, we all had to sign-up again so all of us "oldtimers" have the same start date. I've been here since August of 2009.

I also think if Angie bounces, I wouldn't start a trial tonight. There's a bit of discussion going on back channel on the pros and cons of starting Angie on a trial. I think waiting to see what Angie's numbers look like in a few hours may help with making a good decision.
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +4.75=59 +5=72 +5.5=113 +6

By the time we get to PMPS there isn't usually anyone on the board. I'm about to test again (+7) and will stay on to hear what you think but can we come up with a plan before you guys go to bed? E.g. shoot a drop if she goes over x high at PMPS?
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +4.75=59 +5=72 +5.5=113 +6

Sienne and Gabby said:
... so all of us "oldtimers" have the same start date.

Not such a coincidence then. I was picturing diagnosed at the same time, found the board on the same day, and still here! :-D
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +5=72 +5.5=113 +6=112 +7=9

We can come up with a plan. We're still trying to sort things out.

What are you currentl feeding Angie? And how much? And when?
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +4.75=59 +5=72 +5.5=113 +6

Sienne and Gabby said:
There's a bit of discussion going on back channel on the pros and cons of starting Angie on a trial.

If my history of falling asleep on the job is part of that discussion - I got 14 hours of sleep and am feeling fresh enough to keep going tonight if required.

Our PMBG is at 6 pm Sydney time (+11 hours from GMT). That's 11 pm in LA, and 2 am in New York.
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +5=72 +5.5=113 +6=112 +7=9

I've been feeding her home made food - strictly following Dr Lisa Pierson's chicken recipe from catinfo.org .

I've been feeding her 20 g at AM/PM and both +2's (although my partner thought she may not have eaten anything at +2 this morning).
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +5=72 +5.5=113 +6=112 +7=9

Marje is usually wake then. She's on Pacific time and is up past 11:00 her time.
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +5=72 +6=112 +7=92 +8=92

I forgot to post this this morning.

Today's recap:
AMPS - 130, 1st breakfast, 0.1 IU insulin
+2 --- no test, 2nd breakfast - didn't eat any (or perhaps only a tiny bit)
+4.25 - 29, second test 24, 1 tsp HC food, 1 tsp HC gravy
+4.5 -- 49, 1 tsp HC gravy
+4.75 - 59, 1 tsp LC food and 1/2 tsp HC gravy
+5 --- 72, 1 tsp LC food
+5.5 - 113
+6 --- 112
+7 --- 92
+8 --- 92
+9 --- 76

Yesterday's recap:
AMBG - 128, 1st breakfast
+2 ---- 113, 2nd breakfast
+7 ---- 72
PMBG - 79
+2 ---- 142
+3 ---- 130

Yesterday's condo is here.
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +5=72 +6=112 +7=92 +8=92 +

Hi Sienne, Dyana and everyone,

I've just been talking to my partner and mum (mum has been haunting the board, reading Angie's condo's but hasn't said anything yet). I was 16 when mum bought Angie for me and Angie thinks that my mum is her mum too and turns babyish when she's around.

Mum and my partner both think I should skip Angie's shot tonight.

I have recently got a lot better (I've been quite sick for a year) but since I've been up looking after Angie I have been going down hill again. Last night I felt really sick, could hardly stay up for Angie's +3 and there was no way I could stay up any longer (although I wanted to see what her numbers would come down to after missing her dose). When I get too tired, I have a very hard time going to sleep (too much adrenalin and cortisol in my system) so getting enough rest is very important for me.

My partner and mum both thought that I needed to sleep again tonight - and if I'm honest, I have to agree with them.

If you're not sure if I should shoot or skip, perhaps it would be better if I skipped and we see what she does.

Grace
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +5=72 +6=112 +7=92 +8=92 +

My partner and mum both thought that I needed to sleep again tonight - and if I'm honest, I have to agree with them.

That's all I need to read. She's your mum. Listen to her. While everyone here seems to focus on "kitty", we all believe it's about the caregiver just as much. A sick caregiver is just as bad as a sick kitty. And with the numbers that Angie is showing you today and for the past few days, she's doing a lot better while your loved ones are seeing you suffer.

Listen to your partner, and especially to your mum.

Carl
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +5=72 +6=112 +7=92 +8=92 +

I think you need to do what is best for you. Grace seems to be surfing along right now. We're still working on a plan.

Get some rest! Good job today, Grace!
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +5=72 +6=112 +7=92 +8=92 +

While we tend to say, "It's all about the cats." it has to be about the caregiver, as well. You're no good to Angie if you're sick.

One of the ideas we were discussing is whether you can feed at around +8. Is that even feasible?
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +5=72 +6=112 +7=92 +8=92 +

I think that sounds like a plan.

Since you're skipping tonight, are you up for a little experiment? I've lost track of what time it is there now, so if the answer is "no experiments today!" That is fine. But how about feeding a mini meal now, then testing and feeding another small meal at PMPS time, and one at bedtime. Then test when you get up, and if it is before about +10 then feed another mini meal. The idea is to see if the mini meals may stimulate her pancreas to pull her numbers down. There's no set schedule, just try to spread things out a bit.

That information should help fill in some puzzle pieces, at least in my mind.

And sleep tight!
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +5=72 +6=112 +7=92 +8=92 +

After Libby's comments we thought of doing this:

Feed now (+11/5 pm)
Feed/test at 6.30 pm
Feed/test at 10.30 pm
Feed/test at 5 am
Feed/test at 8 am
Feed/test at 11 am.

Does that sound good? Any more tests needed before 11 am tomorrow?
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie +4.25=29 +4.5=49 +5=72 +6=112 +9=76 +11=101

Grace,
If you're not giving any insulin, I would skip the 5am test for sure. It might be her normal nadir time, but with no shot, she shouldn't have a nadir, per se. Plus that will allow you to get a good night's sleep.

Carl
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie PMBG=101 +1.5=146 +6=119

Just to add to Libby's post, what she's suggesting is that you try to get some food into Angie later in the cycle -- after what would be her nadir. With a cat that's getting closer to remission, the pancreas is increasingly producing it's own insulin. When you feed, the pancreas is stimulated to produce insulin and, as a result, numbers come down. Since you're still seeing pre-shot numbers that are higher than your mid-cycle numbers, the idea is to spread out Angie's food throughout the cycle and use food during the latter portion of the cycle to help bring the numbers down at pre-shot time.

If getting up to give Angie a snack at +8 or so is too disruptive, one thing you can do is, like Libby suggested, feed before you go to bed. A timed feeder may also be a means of being sure there's food available. Another alternative is to make "catsickles." You add sufficient water to LC cat food to make it soupy and then freeze the mixture. I use ice cube trays to freeze the food so it's portioned. You can then leave a few of the cubes out.

It also sounds like you may be underfeeding Angie. She's getting roughly 80g (2.8 oz) of food daily? That's less than one small can of food. Dr. Lisa uses the following formula to calculate the approximate number of calories per day that a cat needs:

Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70​

For a 10lb cat, you would want to be feeding around 200 calories per day. Raw food is around 34 calories per ounce (28.35g). What your currently feeding is about 95 calories per day. That's about half of what Angie should be eating if my numbers are correct -- and obviously, if Angie weighs less than 10 lbs, my numbers could be way off!
 
Re: 9/3/13 Angie PMBG=101 +1.5=146 +6=119

Hi Sienne,

Thanks for your clarifications - I hadn't really understood.

The portions I've been giving Angie of the new wet food are quite tiny - it did seem like I had got it wrong at first. They seemed too small but she's still been putting on weight so I recently reduced it for the second time. I started out with 115 g or 4 oz per day.

Dr Lisa Pierson has this on her recipe page twice:
The average cat eats about 4-6 ounces per day.

As Angie is naturally small, my guess of her ideal weight is 8.4 lb, I started her out on the smaller part of that range. She's a bit overweight, currently 9.7 lb. She gained 0.7 lb since I started making this food so I've reduced her to 105 g per day and then 95 g per day.

Both my cats used to beg for food and Angie would polish both the cat bowls in between feeds. On this new diet both cats seem more satisfied and I have to call them to get them to come and eat. Angie hasn't been licking the bowls in between meal times.

I have two ideas:
If I set an alarm and got up at 4 am to feed and test, then went back to bed, Brad could feed her at 7 am, and I could feed and test her at 9 am again. She won't let anyone else test her or get her out of her cat tree box - she bites and scratches other people sometimes and hurts. Sometimes she warning bites and bats at me but never leaves a mark.

Or, I could feed and test at 6 am/pm and 9 am/pm, take Jetzin into my room for the night and leave a third frozen meal out for Angie. That would be easier, if Jetzin lets me sleep and Angie gets up and eat her frozen meal.

Would either routine fit what you're talking about? Her amps/pmps times have been 6 am/pm and her nadir has been between +2 and +4.


If I can get into bed at 9 pm it would be great for my health. I sleep much better if I can be in bed by 9 pm and a good sleep routine is very important or, like tonight, I end up not sleeping at all.
 
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