5/22 Zeus AMPS 340 +8 328 PMPS 307

5/21 Condo

Morning All,

It has been 7 cycles since Zeus earned the last reduction, and we've seen a couple of blues but mostly yellow and pink, so it looks like we should go back up, which I did this morning. My question is about dosing with calipers. I have gotten a really bad batch of syringes (as far as the lines go), but I have been using calipers for a while so I feel confident that my dosing has been consistent, regardless of what I've called it. The .25 looked more like .5 and the .5 this morning looks more like .75. So anyway, what is the correct way to measure a difference of .25 using just the calipers? Can I just add/subtract .25 to whatever the number was? For example, on my calipers I was at .41 so I added .25 this morning and got .65. After I did that this morning I was thinking that there was probably some other conversion that I should have tried. Any help with that would be appreciated, thanks!

Other than that, all is normal here. Neither kitty had a great appy this morning, and both went BTB after their breffis and meds.

Hope you all have a great day,
Kathie

 

Re: 5/22 Zeus AMPS 340 dosing w/ calipers ?

HI Kathie,

You remind me that I wanted to put together a post about dosing with calipers. I had asked many questions when I started, and had gotten some good replies and also bookmarked some other references. Let me put that together in one place with references to input from others, and post it.

I had the same problem has you do - so many syringe markings were off ... some at least .25 units! Basically, you are measuring the length of insulin in the syringe. This is from the inside base of the syringe (the side closest to the needle, but on the inside where the insulin ends, to the inside of the black stopper. Find several syringes that look to be "perfect" in terms of where the black markings are. Start at 1unit and measure the distance. Do this several times on several syringes and take the average. For me and for a few others, 1u on a Terumo syringe is about 1.50mm. Then divide down to get the dose you want. E.g., 0.5u = .75mm. NOTE - this is only for Terumos ... other syringes are different and you have to figure it out for your syringe. When you are down to 0.1u or so, then counting drops is more accurate.

If you look at Leo's SS on the "Dose Calculations" tab, in the left side you will see the translations we used. The three columns are the Dose Name (what I wrote in Leo's SS in the dose column), the actual dose in units, and the caliper measurement.

Lisa

 

Re: 5/22 Zeus AMPS 340 dosing w/ calipers ?

It's not clear from your post if your numbers (like .25) refer to units (.25u) or to caliper values (0.25mm). To use the calipers, you have to add/subtract the caliper value that corresponds to 0.25u. For us, 0.25u = 0.375mm on the calipers. So to decrease from 0.5u to 0.25u for us, we would measure 0.375mm on the caliper instead of 0.75mm. That's the same as 0.75mm-0.375mm. NOTE: to do this, you need to have calibrated the syringes first so you can completely ignore the black lines.

What syringes are you using?

 

Re: 5/22 Zeus AMPS 340 dosing w/ calipers ?

Hi Lisa, thank you so much! I am currently using the Terumo syringes, so I'm feeling better about my dose of .65 mm this morning, I'm not that far off from the .75 mm or .50u that I was trying for. I will definitely check. Things out later... I'm off to TBP. Have a good day,

Kathie

 

Re: 5/22 Zeus AMPS 340 dosing w/ calipers ?

Oh, sorry. Yes, I meant according to the lines on the syringe, when I measured .41mm on the calipers that's what I was guessing that .25u was on the syringe but with the lines it looks more like .5u. So like you said, the lines were off by .25u. With that said, I also didn't add/subtract the number that corresponds to .25u on the calipers, I just did .25, so I was incorrect in that as well (.41mm +.25 = .65mm)... But a least I was consistent :lol: and now I know. I will test some "perfect" calipers to see what I get. I will probably hold Zeus at what I did this morning at least for a few days to see what happens. He did dip down to 31 on this dose (.65mm),

Thanks again, kathie

 

Re: 5/22 Zeus AMPS 340 dosing w/ calipers ?

This is an interesting conversation. I had never thought about the lines being off on syringes. This sheds a lot of light on my having to adjust doses when I get new supplies and going up or down for no apparent reason. Thanks!

 

Re: 5/22 Zeus AMPS 340 dosing w/ calipers ?

When I started using calipers for Furball, I took a "good" syringe and measured 1 unit and wrote down how many mm that is. Then I measured 0.5 units, .25 units, etc. and wrote each measurement down. Now when I shoot I look at the measurements I wrote down and set the calipers accordingly. Then I draw up what I think is that amount on the syringe and check it against the calipers. I make sure the rubber line of the stopper from the syringe matches the calipers no matter how much the syringe is saying the dose is. I hope that makes sense. I use the Relions from Wal-Mart.

Good luck with the new does for Zeus.

 

Re: 5/22 Zeus AMPS 340 dosing w/ calipers ?

Hi guys .. lots of good info in here on caliper usage! I just hope the extra juice is just what zeus needs .. have a great day guys!

 

Re: 5/22 Zeus AMPS 340 dosing w/ calipers ?

Marje posted some great pictures of dosing with calipers:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=79851

Make sure that your upper reference point is the plastic disk, NOT the zero line! The zero lines can be a little bit off or even way off. In Marje's photo of the Terumo you can see that the zero line is slightly below the plastic disk. The upper jaw of the calipers, however, is positioned correctly on the plastic disk.

I use Terumos and I calculate that a "drop" of insulin (Levemir) = 0.11 mm on the digital calipers. I generally go up and down by drops--fattening or shaving. Rusty's current dose (which, for the sake of convention I am calling a fat 1.75 units) measures 2.66 mm on the digital calipers.

Good luck!

Ella & Rusty

 

Re: 5/22 Zeus AMPS 340 dosing w/ calipers ?

Dear lord - I thought using calipers was supposed to make it easier! I haven't done any extra calculations or translations, to average out syringe measurements. I just zero'd out the calipers and set them to the dose I wanted. Then I try to measure it carefully (as Marje so wonderfully illustrated) and go from there. We're using Terumo syringes. Calipers are set for 1.06 and it is usually very close to the 1u mark on the syringes. The only reason I even look at the syringe markings is just to make sure I didn't bump the calipers or anything and it's where I think it should be - kind of a double check for sleepy Tara.

Now I'm wondering if I've been doing it wrong all along? Buster's numbers are really good right now whatever that dose is so I'm sticking with it!

 

Re: 5/22 Zeus AMPS 340 dosing w/ calipers ?

Guess I should pop on here quickly.

It's a good idea, as suggested, to get a bunch of "perfect" syringes (e.g. Top of zero line is even with plastic ring as shown on photos) and measure the distance in mm in 1u. But the problem you get with then measuring the distance of .5u, .25u, etc, is that the syringes are inaccurate even between those doses so you have to measure a ton of them.

I've already done this for everyone using Terumo syringes and my calculations are in this post on Monoject and Terumo Syringes. You can use the numbers straight from this post...depending on whether you get 5 or 7 drops per unit provided you are using Terumo syringes.

If you are not using Terumos, then I would suggest you get as many "perfect" syringes as you can find and measure in mm the distance in 1u as described in the two posts I did. Then figure out how many drops you get per unit and divide that into the distance in mm. So if you get 160 mm from the perfect zero to the needle side of the 1u line, and you get 10 drops per unit when you dose, then each drop will be a difference of .16 mm on your calipers.

Let me k ow if you have any questions. I've been doing this well over a year now and I also did all of this using accurate scientific measuring equipment for liquids like this. I have to work today but I'll che k back in later.

It doesn't need to be so complicated

 

Re: 5/22 Zeus AMPS 340 dosing w/ calipers ?

I'm totally confused at this point - I'll try to read up and figure it out - thanks Marje! And good luck with lil Zeus Kathie!

 

Re: 5/22 Zeus AMPS 340 dosing w/ calipers ?

Thanks everyone, I appreciate all responses. I am currently using the Terumo syringes, so thanks Marje for doing the calculations for everyone, and the explanation is great too. I will read and read again. At least I have been using the calipers in the right spot on the syringe :smile:

Have a great night, and thanks again,
Kathie

 

You're welcome!