7/12 Charlie AMPS 355 help

Hi friends,

I am really worried about charlie. We took her in to the vet to get her teeth cleaned on wednesday, as Her breath didnt smell good and I thought maybe she needed a tooth pulled.

The vet sedated her using something called medetomidine / dexdomitor. Charlie fasted from midnight the night bedore the appointment, and on the morning of the appointment we did not shoot since she had not eaten.

She went in for the appointment and came back a changed kitty (major vomiting and lethargy on night one, no eating or drinking on wed and thurs. Eventually we force fed her thurs night so we could give her shot again. Fri she ate a tiny bit and seemed slowly a bit more normal, but weird still for certain. This morning (sat), I woke up and she didnt eat her food from last night. She ate some tuna during test but not very much. I gave the shot eventually as it is only .15 now and I thought it wasnt so risky. We can force feed again if needed, but I am worried about her. She is hiding behind the couch and not moving. Normally in the morning, she is starving, and after eating comes in bed with us to snuggle and purr. Nothing like that since last week.

Any thoughts about what to do? I asked the vet if she gave anything else. The first time I called, the assistant told me ketamines. Later when I called back, the vet said it was only dexdomitor.

Either way, I dont know what to do. I can take charlie back there this morning, and probably will, but she HATES vets, so I also dont want her to have more complications due to stress.

Any experience with something like this? Or advice?

Jill

I am familiar with ketamine but not the other anesthesia. Many vets in the US no longer use the anesthesias like ketamine which must be processed through the kidneys and other organs. I'd bet the one your vet used also must be processed through the organs. It can take 24 hours for them to metabolize those anesthesias. Often these are used for induction.

The alternative that is used in the US by more progressive vets is isofluorane which is breathed into the lungs and once the gas is off, the cat wakes up just fine.

There are some conditions which can be residual to ketamine and other anesthesias processed through the organs. Is she on pain meds ..sometimes dental cleaning can leave their gums sore. If she's on pain meds, I'd discuss with the vet any chance that could be causing the problem.

If she were mine, I'd get her right back to the vet today. Paws crossed and healing vines.

I think if you just put in the subject line that you need help, you can take off the 911. Most LLers are in bed now for a few more hours but some might have some ideas.

Thank you Marje. We will take her in the minute they open. She is not on pain meds and if it is a residual effect from the medicine, it shouldn't be lasting 4 days. Prayers for this sweet little kitty.

There is a syndrome that I'm trying to remember the name of...and it results from the anesthesia and it actually can affect the kitty for several weeks. I will try to find the name of it for you before I go to bed.

I totally agree with Marje and hope the vet can give you some answers to what's going on. Make sure you find out 100% what they used for anesthesia. I had a cat that had horrible reactions to anesthesia and would be really out of it for days. Staggering around, not eating and really acting very sick. Finally found out what the vet had used, so when we had to face surgeries again, we knew what NOT to use. There are other options, but some vets are comfortable with one way, and only one way, so if your vet doesn't seem flexible if anesthesia is needed again, it might be time to find a new vet.

Good luck to you and Charlie. I'll be thinking of you tomorrow and hope to hear good news and that Charlie is his old self again!

Thanks guys.

Jill

I've been wracking my brain but cannot remember the name of the syndrome but it happened to a friends cat many, many years ago after anesthesia for a dental. It actually also caused a temporary personality change in her cat and ketamine is know for the possibility that it can do that....although it is not common.

I'm so sorry I can't remember the name of it but i feel this is rally anesthesia related.

Prayers for Charlie. I hope you can find out what is going on with her and she recovers quickly.

Just weighed her and she is 4.2 kilos
She is losing weight again. She has been consistently 4.5 kilos for awhile now.
We have a vet appointment at noon.

Sending good vet visit vines today.
Please give us an update when you get back.

:YMHUG:

The vet was unable to do anything really, as charlie completely freaked out. Screaming, hissing, crying, clawing and squirming around. Eventually we discussed everything, and the vet thought maybe she was in pain due to the symptoms of no eating, drinking and walking hunched over. The vet tested again for pancreatitis last wed, but results are not in yet. So for now, he gave her a shot of metacam and gave us some to take home with us. We are supposed to put it in her water for a few days.

Already after the shot, she seems much more normal. Eating, walking around, and not hiding. I hope this is just a temporary pain that will go away, but I fear it is something more serious. Her fur has also looked bad lately, and with the weight loss and behavior changes, I dont know. :YMSIGH:

Here's my concern.

According to the manufacturer, dexomitor is a pre-anesthesia and used for analgesia (pain management). It is a sedative but it is not an anesthetic. If this is the only medication the vet gave Charlie, does that mean the dental was done without anesthesia? If so, that is completely inappropriate and cruel. If they sufficiently sedated Charlie, how much of this drug did they give her? (This is the manufacturer's package insert with weight-based dosing information.) You'll notice from the insert, that there have been pre-anesthesia field studies and the anesthetic was either ketamine or propofol; dexdomitor was not given as the anesthesia. I would be very curious to see what the dose was.

Can you please ask the vet for something other than metacam? It has a black box warning due to it's causing acute renal failure in cats. (A black box warning is as strong a warning as the FDA gives short of pulling a drug off the market.) Personally, I don't care if the vet tells you he's never had a problem with metacam. Most of the drugs is this family are problematic for cats. Buprenorphine is a much safer option.

Besides the Black Box Warning on Metacam, I don't understand how you are supposed to give a dose by adding it to the water. It depends upon how much she drinks how much Metacam she consumes. That just sounds strange to me.

I'm glad she's eating and acting more normal. I hope and pray she continues to improve.

Prayers for Charlie and you.

Keeping you and Charlie in our thoughts! I don't know much about the anesthetic , but Sienne is a font of knowledge when it comes to drugs.

Sending calming feel better vines for Charlie.

I' wonder, since you are in the Netherlands, if Metacam doesn't have the black box warning. My vet thinks I'm nuts but there is a big note on Tess's and Emma's charts "No Metacam, No Convenia!"

7/12 Charlie AMPS 355 +4 270 PMPS 347

Thank you all for chiming in. The vet gave a shot of metacam today, and gave us a bottle. My partner says we actually need to mix it in the food. The vet is closed tomorrow but I will call them on Monday.

Previously we were given tramedol as a pain killer and that was awful. Charlie seemed completely drugged up and we decided to never touch the stuff again. Instead, we left that vet. That was the same place that gave us caninsulin, which was awful. At the time, we went to a new wholistic vet and she said to try something softer and less risky called meloxodil. I forgot we had that, but I still have the bottle as an alternative that I could try tomorrow, but I dont know about mixing things since she had a dose of metacam today. Thoughts?

We actually nowadays go to the more wholistic vet who doesnt give any of this stuff. She is anti-tramedol. I will call her tomorrow and if I cant reach her I will try again on Monday to ask her what she thinks of metacam as well, and to see what she thinks could have gone wrong.

For this procedure, like I said, we went to a new vet for the dental cleaning. No teeth were pulled. This vet has an assistant who first told me they gave charlie dexomitor and ketamine. Later on the phone when I called back, I spoke to the actual vet who gave the procedure and she told me she gave only dexomitor. I will call again and ask her exactly the dose and try to figure out what the real story is.

Today when I went back there, a different vet was in the office, and he gave the metacam. He also said that next time, if charlie needs anesthesia we can try another kind. i think the propofol is what he referred to.

Jill,
here's a link you could share with the vet. http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/CVMUpdates/ucm231254.htm

you can also use the search box in the upper right corner and type in metacam and see all the chatter by so many here and their experiences.

and finally , here is a good link for yourself of references to antibiotics and painkillers for cats....http://www.felinecrf.org/treatments_antibiotics_painkillers.htm
That way you can look up anything the vet wants to use or recommends.

Most vets here in the US, use a pre-anesthetic and then an anesthetic. Propofol is another drug that is typically used as a pre-anesthetic. Sevoflurane or isoflurane are typically used as anesthestic agents here.