? ProZinc dosing question. Amps 133

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by HelloKrystie, Feb 13, 2020.

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  1. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Good morning everyone. This morning Sirius’ amps is 131. Stalling is not an option, as I’m already running very late for work. Shooting has me nervous, I won’t be able to check on him for a few hours. Should I skip, again? Or try for a .25u dose? He’s had more missed shots than shots this last week.

    Attached is the link for the very lengthy conversation that started a few days ago. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...nd-other-questions.225387/page-2#post-2525667
     
  2. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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  3. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Thank you, Deb.
    For about the last 15 minutes I keep getting an unexpected error message that wouldn't let me log on to the forum. Have you had this problem before? Thankfully I was able to see your answer because I have alerts set up to go to my email. They’re delayed a bit, but it a good backup.
     
  4. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    The forum administrator does daily maintenance for the message board.
    That daily maintenance usually occurs around 7:40 am EST, 6:40 am CST, 5:40 am MST, 4:40 am PST.
    Those times are US time zones. Adjust for where you live if outside of the USA.

    You have to be patient and wait for the message board to come back on-line.

    Some days it only takes a few minutes for that daily maintenance to occur.
    Other days, it takes 15-20 minutes for that daily maintenance to occur.

    You got caught in the middle of one of those time periods.

    "An Unexpected Database Error Occurred. Please try again later" or words to that effect are what you saw.
    Tiny print on the screen of your smartphone, if you use that to access the message board.
     
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  5. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Pmps 160. Should I be micro dosing?
     
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  6. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I think 1 drop of insulin could be very helpful to Sirius.

    Do you think you have the technique down for the drop dose?

    Draw up a tiny bit of insulin, needle pointed up to the ceiling and give the syringe a "flick" to get any air bubbles up to the top of the syringe. Push out the air bubbles.

    Slowly twisting the syringe plunger to push out all the insulin, then when one small drop is all that is left on the end of the needle, draw the syringe plunger back to "suck" that 1 drop back into the syringe.

    Give the shot. Monitor.

    Later, if you need to, you could increase the number of drops. But for now, lets stay at 1 drop for Sirius.

    p.s. Go check out Oscar's post over in the Prozinc forum. Cheer Hailey & Oscar on.
     
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  7. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Ive been able to consistently get one drop enough times that I’m comfortable doing it, and recreating it. I’m pretty certain the size of my drops are the same each time. Picture attached of my drop.

    Going to check out Hailey and Oscar now!
     

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  8. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Same drop, different angle/focus point. I hope this is what you mean by drop, and that it’s the correct size drop!
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    That is 1 drop. Thanks for the pictures.
     
  10. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Ok, what does otj stand for?

    I’ll be home with Sirius all night to monitor and test. When is the best time to test him again to see what the effects are of the drop dose? +2...+3...? +4 would be the latest I could manage, I think.
     
  11. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    OTJ means off-the-juice, insulin being the juice.
    It's when a cat is diet controlled, or sometimes called remission.
    Haley and Oscar are doing an OTJ trial.
    Testing for 14 days, to see if Oscar will stay in those low BG numbers, preferably <80 mg/dL with diet alone.

    I say +2 and +4 would be fine.

    How are Sirius's ears?
    Looking any better or still sore and bruised looking?
     
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  12. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Off the juice!!! Hahaha I love it!
    I hope they make it through! What an amazing feeling for Hailey I’m sure!

    I will try for both!

    His poor little ear...it’s not looking great. (I saw you responded to my thread about it. Thank you)
     
  13. Kerri & Tigger

    Kerri & Tigger Member

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    Hi Krystie! Sirius looks like he is doing great! (Are you glad yet that bf nuked your insulin? And if you ARE glad, that doesn't mean you have to TELL the bf so.):D
     
  14. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Thanks, Kerri!
    I was hesitant to adjust his dose from the drop dose to 2 drops, but over the 3 cycles he received that dose, he was pretty stable, with no crazy dips or spikes. And, I’ve been home with him all day.
    I practiced the 1 drop method about 70 times before I actually did it. And the 2 drops about 50 times. He’s looking pretty good, and most importantly, he’s feeling pretty good. I caught him playing like a crazy man early this morning! About 30 minutes after his am shot he was running and pouncing like a kitten again! This old man hasn’t played like that in ages! I throughly enjoyed watching him.

    The nuking of the insulin very well could have saved him from a hypo event. For that I’m glad. It also forced me to home test that night, rather than trying to learn over those next few days. I had already purchased all his testing supplies, but the more I read, the more terrified and hesitant I became to actually poke him. Well, about 30 minutes after learning of the bf’s idiocy, I had his first home test done. At 176mg/dl that night, if we had given the 3 units prescribed by his Vet, I might have lost him. The bf knows this, and likes to keep reminding me. Which makes me want to open the car door for him...while we’re moving.
     
  15. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Question, I found the screen shot in an old forum thread and it has me a tad concerned. And thinking about it, I don’t believe I was even told where I should aim for Sirius to be at....

    I’m trying to regulate Sirius’ blood glucose levels, but to what numbers? The ss shows that green numbers (50-99) are normal. But, in the screenshot, it says the no-shoot number for ProZinc is 150. It also says 50-130mg/dl is great control. Wouldn’t I need to shoot to get him under that 150?

    The last two doses I gave to Sirius he was under the 150 no-shoot number. Am I trying to go to low? Even with the micro-dosing that I’m currently trying? His lowest number so far during our sugar dance was 92; his amps was 202, and that 92 was his +6 test. What number should I be aiming for? 50-99? Or just generally below 150, without going under hypo territory of under 50?

    to shoot or not to shoot, that is the question....
     
  16. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    When you first start giving your cat insulin, you have no idea how low a particular dose of insulin will take your cat.
    So, at the beginning, before you have learned to home test, before you have learned how YOUR cat will react, we suggest you keep the threshold for giving a shot, your decision point, at a higher BG number.

    And that you keep the dose lower at the beginning, lower than many vets recommend as a starting dose.

    We sometimes call that threshold a "shoot/no shoot" number but it is really a "stop and think what to do" number.
    So, for people new to the message board, that threshold is set to 200 for a minimum. That threshold can be higher if you use a pet meter, or another insulin like NPH or Vetsulin.
    The threshold, the decision point, the "stop and think BG number" can and should be lowered as you gain experience.
    Experience with testing, with your cat's reaction to insulin.
    Once you become more experienced, that initial threshold will be lowered.
    With Lantus, once you gain experience and move to the ISG (insulin support group), the threshold for lantus is 150.

    For some of the other insulins, such as the Prozinc you are using, the threshold is lowered as we see how your cat is doing.
    It kind of depends on what the nadirs are, what the duration of the insulin is for your cat, what the onset is for your cat, how well you have managed the change to a better food, if you have a timed feeder or are able to leave food out for your cat to eat while you are away at work.

    ECID Every Cat is Different. "Know thy Cat" will help to guide you. You will always know more about your cat then we can ever learn.
    We use our best judgement in trying to guide you.
    Mid-cycle BG tests in combination with the pre-shot tests and other notes on the SS help us to guide you.

    Since Sirius was already down in the middle blue ranges, the 3U you were giving looked like way too much.
    Your bottle of Prozinc was ruined, you could not get anymore until after the weekend and then your vet didn't have the Prozinc in stock so you had to find the insulin elsewhere.

    First dose once you got insulin was 0.5U. Not much test data, that first dose brought Sirius down into the green number ranges. Still not much test data over the next 5 cycles, but Sirius was still in the mid-blue number range. But it looked like 0.5U could be too much. Not enough test data to say either way.

    Over the next few cycles, you were getting a little more test data, still low but obvious that Sirius needed a tiny bit of insulin. How tiny could you learn to dose? Had you practice, practice with those drop doses. You started drop dosing a couple of days ago.

    1 drop did not seem to be budging the numbers much lower.
    So suggested you increase to 2 drops.
    You should try to stay at that dose for 3 cycles, to see if it drops the BG levels for Sirius more.
    Unless, he drops really low, under 60-80 or so. You pick the low or nadir BG number that makes you feel comfortable.
    Set it higher if you like, than the suggested number.
    If Sirius drops below the nadir you have set, then you should reduce the dose. A drop.
    With Prozinc you are looking for about a 50% drop between the pre-shot tests and the nadir.
    You do not want much more of a drop than 50% between those 2 tests.
    If you do have > 50% drop, between pre-shot and nadir, either steer the cycle with food or drop the dose by a "skinny" or very tiny amount.
    Sirius is already on a very tiny amount of insulin, so there is not much of a lower dose you can give him. No way to "skinny" the dose for him unless you can measure even tinier drops.

    Prozinc is an in-and-out insulin. Effects not extending much beyond 12 hours, if that.
    Wears off, is all used up by his body around the middle of the cycle.
    Then the BG numbers keep rising.
    Many cats on Prozinc, have a steep rise between +11 and pre-shot.
    But you don't know that unless you get that +11 test.

    If you can get a +11 on a regular basis, that will tell you if the test you get at pre-shot is a rising or falling BG.
    More reassuring to see that the number is rising, between +11 and pre-shot test.
    Gives you more confidence in giving him some insulin.
    Regular tests in the night time cycle are important too.
    One before you go to bed is always a good idea.

    Not sure if I have answered your question or not.
    At least I hope you have a better understanding of what is going on and why we have made the recommendations we have.
     
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  17. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    You did, to an extent. I think I’m just always second guessing myself is all. Everyone wants to know they’re doing everything that can, and that they’re doing it all correctly. Yes, the no-shoot number for newbies on ProZinc is 200, but that 150 no-shoot is what had me confused. (See picture I finally attached. lol) It just says no-shoot number for ProZinc.... below it lists the beginner no-shoot as the 200. I just want to be sure I’m not trying to hard and shooting when I shouldn’t. I’ll be able to get a +11 shortly (less than an hours time actually), and maybe even one tomorrow morning before his amps.

    One more question: being that I’m still playing with his dosing, when should I do his first curve? Should it be after he’s had 3 cycles of the same dose, or 6 cycles of the same dose?

    I just noticed that I didn’t post the picture I was referring to. I do that a lot when I’m nervous, I forget things. Usually important things....

    Thanks Deb, you’re a wealth of knowledge. And what’s more, you’re always willing to share and help.
     

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  18. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    @Deb & Wink pmps 113. Should I shoot the 2 drop dose?

    Edited:
    I shot the dose.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
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  19. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

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    Krystie, I think your question falls into the range of every cat is different and a pinch of it's up to you. Where Billy is concerned, Brian and I decided we were happy with an OTJ range of 50-120. He is active, feeling good and doing great. 50-120 works for him, and he hasn't been creeping over that, so we're happy. Over time, Billy's having less and less morning readings over 100, and continues to do well. So well that I've cut down to one test a day. (I picked morning, because he traditionally has his highest readings then.)

    Honestly, you're going to have that "no shoot" number, (for Billy ours was 150) and if he's lower than that, you aren't going to give him insulin anyway. So continue to monitor how his behavior is, peeing preening pooping etc, and if it's good, you might find that he's doing fine in a range such as 50-120.
     
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  20. Kerri & Tigger

    Kerri & Tigger Member

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    Just remember: You can't help Sirius from jail! ;)

    I'm so glad to hear about the playing this morning--that's so encouraging! I saw your other notes about ideal ranges and shoot / no shoot / etc. It's a lot to sort out, I know. I think you're in a great spot working with these low doses so quickly. I let Tigger stay a long time in what I thought was "too low to shoot" but what was also too high for good control....Just a kind of limbo/stalemate. So I'm excited to be working with tiny doses now. I think you just landed on that good help from Deb really early in the process, so you got to avoid the skipping-doses limbo we were stuck in.

    I know that also doesn't answer "what's the number where I just don't shoot" or "what's the range I'm aiming for." I'm not sure how to answer that....Those numbers have been moving targets for me. I just know the more tests/data the more knowledge you'll have and the more you'll be able to see the "big picture of Sirius." But it sure looks like you're on the right track! Happy weekend!
     
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  21. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Krystie, what I basically did was walk through all the factors that I used to come up with dose and explained some of the reasoning behind the decisions.
     
  22. Kerri & Tigger

    Kerri & Tigger Member

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    Yay for that nice green 80 last night! :cat:
     
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  23. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    You're getting a few green range numbers at mid-cycle which is good.
    the 2 drops seems to be helping.

    If you get a green at pre-shot, I'd stall and see if the number rises.
    If <90 even after stalling, I'd skip the shot.
     
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  24. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    This is so weird, I just logged onto the site to research some things I’ve got questions on and the alert popped up about your comment. What timing.

    Good morning, Kerri! And thank you! I was feeling a bit uneasy about his numbers lately, just because I feel like he’s a little sporadic, and I can’t get a handle on his nadir time yet. I’m going to try to get an am +5 today, if my workday allows. I noticed that that space is blank on my ss. Night tests are another story... :(

    I’m planning to do his first curve this weekend, and I have so many questions. And still so many more general questions about him and the disease.
     
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  25. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    We call those green range numbers "healing numbers". They give the pancreas a break and time to heal and start producing insulin on it's own.
     
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  26. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Good morning, Deb :)

    I haven’t gotten any numbers quite that low pre-shot yet. Close though!
     
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  27. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    The quest for those green numbers is killing me. Lol.

    I’m thinking I should keep him on the 2 drop dose for a bit still, and do his first curve this weekend. I was debating going to 3 drops, just because of those blues I keep seeing. The greens aren’t consistent, and to me that’s frustrating because I know we’re aiming for greens. Once I read green = healing, I basically obsessed about it. Lol
     
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  28. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    I think 3 drops would be too much for Sirius right now. (Deb is shaking her head back and forth in a negative motion, chanting "no, no, no".)

    Stick with the 2 drops for now.

    I curve can be done anytime you have 12 hours to spare. Some people have even done them at night, setting an alarm to get them up every 2 hours. Makes for a hard sleep deprived day at work.
     
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  29. Kerri & Tigger

    Kerri & Tigger Member

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    Deb says slow and steady wins the race! :) But I am with you on the quest for green! (Deb, is that where the "healing vines" comes from? Or are they some real thing I've just not heard of?!) I've seen people on the board talk about their kitties being "stuck in the lemon trees." So much new lingo!

    That's great, Krystie, that you can get a curve this weekend. Maybe it will help you start seeing a pattern. At least Sirius isn't stuck in a lemon tree.

    Hope you have a great day!
     
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  30. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    "Healing Vines" was a misspelling of "sending healing vibes" for a sick kitty. Someone spelled Vibes as Vines and it caught on somehow.
    "Blue lagoon" is surfing (steady blue numbers at mid-cycle). Sometimes with a bit of food to keep those numbers steadier.
    "stuck in the lemon trees" is stuck in the yellow range numbers.
    "down in the green, green grass" is down in the green numbers.
    "surfing" can be BG levels in the dark greens with almost no effort.
    MC = medium carb food
    HC = high carb food
    LC = low carb food
    hypo = hypoglycemic numbers and/or symptoms.
    dosecrease can be either a dose increase or a dose decrease
    + hour time, so people in different time zones understand when you dosed the insulin and tested.
    AMPS and PMPS (morning and evening pre-shot test times.
    BG = blood glucose
    There are indubitably other phrases I'm unaware of.

    FDMB Glossary


    Fat and skinny doses. Slow slide. TR. SLGS. PMBG & AMBG (kitty on OTJ trial), OTJ (no insulin, diet controlled), DKA. Lantus forum has there own separate lingo and abbreviations, but many of those terms apply to all the insulins.

    Confused about our jargon?


    When helping some one that is in another country, or where their primary language is not English, I try to spell out the lingo and terms we use and put the abbreviation in the post too.

    Joining the French speaking Facebook feline diabetes group recently, made me even more aware of being more explicit in my explanations and using various words for different languages.

    For example, "blood glucose readings" gets translated to "lecturas de glucosa en sangre" in Spanish, which looked more like "lectures" to me. So I try to say blood glucose tests or levels instead.
     
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  31. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Oh goodness, I thought a curve was every 2-3 hours, FOR 24 HOURS!!!!
     
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  32. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

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    I did too, at first, so don't beat yourself up about it, lol. 12 hours is a curve, so no need to pop out of bed all night unless you just like to. :)
     
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  33. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Curve is testing every 2 hours, from 1 pre-shot test to the next. 12 hours for a curve.
    AMPS, +2, +4, +6, +8, +10, +12 (also know as the PMPS)
    So if you start the test with the AMPS, then you test every 2 hours after the shot.

    OR every 3 hours for 18 hours, starting with a pre-shot test.
    AMPS, +3, +6, +9, +12 (PMPS) +3, +6

    No need to test for 24 hours.

    You can also do a mini-curve. Testing until the BG's shoot back up after around the mid-cycle at +8 to +10.
     
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  34. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Hahahha not quite.

    Well now I feel....annoyed with myself. I could have gotten a curve this past Saturday! Thinking I need to plan to be home and testing all day. Man, what a disappointment. Although, I’m not as disappointed when I realize that I don't have to get up at 1am...3am...5am....

    Ok, questions then....
    Should I start at a specific time? Should a curve be started on an amps or a pmps? Or doesn’t time matter, as long as it’s 12 hours? (It would probably be much easier to start on an amps cycle, but just in case that wasn’t an option as some point)

    Should I have him stick to one food all day, or give him his usual mix? For some weirdo kitty reason, sometimes he’ll snub a flavor of food that he’s been eating perfectly fine, and I need to try a different FF flavor for him to eat. Recently I got him a few Friskies patè’s to try, so he’s also eating a mix of the FF patè and the Friskies. Sometimes it’s all FF in one day, and sometimes it’s FF in the am, and his dinner or Friskies. I even mixed the two up the other day for him to try. ( I read on the food chart that liver is especially good, so I’ve been trying to get him to eat liver flavor everyday)
    I think because he’s a little more regulated, his eating habits are changing. While he used to devour whole meals all day, I’m finding he’s leaving food behind at certain times. Which in turn means that he can have had a few bites of food before testing. I haven’t figured out a pattern yet, so even the times feeder is proving difficult in that area. I believe a few of his pre-shot test results were skewed because of that. Is that going to be a problem during a curve?

    I know there’s more questions, but I can’t think right now. (It’s also a little crazy in my office today, my boss may kill me eventually. Lol)
     
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  35. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    I was typing out my questions as you were typing oh this reply. I keep having to step away for work stuff. Sorry if it seems like I’m asking questions that you’ve already answered!
     
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  36. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Been there, done that plenty of times. :):):)Don't worry about it.

    Feed at your normal times when doing a curve.
    Don't worry too much about food leftover when doing a curve.

    The food before pre-shot. How much do you think is left?
    Could you use the timed feeder for that? At night? If you don't get home in time to pick up the food 2 hours before the pre-shot tests?

    Do you get home from work before +11? If so, pick up the food then, take a test and then do your pre-shot test at normal time.
    My concern is that with Sirius running in such low numbers, you could give insulin on a food influenced BG test and the numbers will drop when you are not there to monitor.
    So use that timed feeder, to provide a snack for Sirius.
     
  37. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Honestly a bite or two, he usually doesn’t leave too much.
    I’ve been experimenting with the feeder, and how much to put into each slot so it doesn’t happen. But like I said, the quantity of food he’s eating isn’t consistent, so that’s where the trouble lies. I can always try adding less than I know he would definitely eat. But I want to make sure there’s food available for when he needs it goodness forbid his numbers were too low when I wasn’t.

    Thst depends on my work day; Last night for instance, I wasn’t, I got home a few minutes before his pmps. But anytime I’m home I try to make certain he’s not eating before that pmps. After I noticed him licking his chops over the weekend before I tested him I’ve been making sure.
     
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  38. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Jan 26, 2020
    Ok, so I just went home to get a +5....
    He flicked his ear and the little box on the strip didn’t show that it sipped up enough blood. BUT, it gave me a reading anyway. I didn’t trust it, so I fought him and got another sample just 3 minutes later. 125 first test vs 109 second test. Is that within normal for a retest? Pretty sure I read that there is a 10 or 20% deviation? But now I don’t which number to take into consideration? And, are those number indicative of the insulin’s normal effects/cycle?

    Also, when I have split numbers like that, my ss doesn’t shade the box. I’ve notice other people’s ss do. What am I doing wrong? (It’s the little things that give me an eye twitch!)
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020
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  39. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Those 2 tests are within meter variance. Normal for a retest.

    Yes.

    Two numbers in the box means you have to manually color code the cell. You can copy and paste the color coded formatting from another cell in the same color range.
     
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  40. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Jan 26, 2020
    Thank you, Deb.

    I fixed his ss with the color coding. Thanks!!!
     
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  41. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    I know all sorts of stuff. Just ask.

    Don't more know than the basics about DKA or Pancreatitis. But can point you to some documents about those conditions. That is the extent of my knowledge, but I know other people that can help with those conditions.
     
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  42. Kerri & Tigger

    Kerri & Tigger Member

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    Dec 17, 2019
    I love this post! (The lingo one from this morning, I mean; I've been away from computer for most of the day.) Even though the kitty diabetes part stinks, it's fun/encouraging/uplifting to learn this community.

    And Deb, you really are a whiz! I was wondering if we really should be trusting Google translate....(But then better than nothing, what other options???)....I love that you cracked the code to help it work better. I guess when you type as many responses as you type, you have ample opportunity to test things out. :)

    Healing vibes and vines and maybe one day we will be down in the green green grass, too!
     
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  43. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    @Deb & Wink pmps is 102...to shoot or not to shoot, that is the question...?

    I’ve noticed that his 2 drop dose brings him about 30 points lower. That would keep him above hypo level, it just makes me slightly nervous.
    He’s eating dinner now. What do you think?
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020
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  44. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    You need to learn to stall and see if that is a rising number, retest and then feed.

    If you never shoot the low numbers, Sirius will never get to remission. If that is one of your goals.
    Can you monitor tonight? Get a +2? Set an alarm and get a +6?

    If so, give the 2 drop dose. If not, do 1 drop.

    Where are those "balls of steel" Marje used to give people when you are shooting low numbers.
    [​IMG]
     
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  45. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Ok, it’s half an hour past his pmps, I’ll shoot and monitor.
     
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  46. Kerri & Tigger

    Kerri & Tigger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2019
    Hey Krystie! I bet it's not too late to give 1 drop. You could consider that? I am a chicken and have no balls of steel either. But I am loving the 1 drops while I work on growing my pair. :rolleyes:

    OOPS, I missed your other note/update. Typing at the same time.

    PS--Yay, Sirius!--for playing with the string and bobby.
     
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  47. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    I deleted the other comment, so I didn’t confuse anyone. I just gave the 2. I guess I grew a set...or more likely Deb forced them on me! Hahahahaha :p
     
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  48. Kerri & Tigger

    Kerri & Tigger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2019
    Hmmm....we could delete all this and you could totally look like you had your very own BoS already!:cool:
     
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  49. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    This may help you a bit. When you have those lower pre-shots. Both Krystie and Kerri. Written for a different insulin, but the concept is the same.
    "Are you data ready to handle a lower preshot number?

    Everyone focuses on the +6 spot check to find the cat’s nadir, but there is a reason to collect data in the very early and very late part of the cycle. The +10s and +11s and +1s and +2s are often the “neglected spot checks,” but they can be almost as important as the nadir.

    Why the +1s and +2s? Let’s say you have a lower than usual pre-shot. If you have collected the data to know what usually happens after you shoot and how long it usually takes for the insulin to start having an effect (onset), you may see that shooting low is actually very safe for your cat. If your cat typically rises through +1 and +2 before the insulin starts to work between +2 and +3, then you can feel comfortable knowing that your cat will actually be much higher before the insulin starts to work. If your cat typically has little to no food spike or an early onset, then you may need to be more conservative with low pre-shots. You are not shooting the number your cat is at now – you are shooting the number your cat will be at when the insulin kicks in. You need to know what that number will be. You are then using the lag time (aka overlap and carryover) to your advantage. " "Know thy cat."

    "Why the +10s and +11s? These spot checks will help keep you out of trouble. Again, let’s say that you have a lower than usual pre-shot. If your pre-shot is higher than +10 or +11, you know the insulin from that cycle is waning, the cat is on his way up, and the number is probably shootable. If you have a pre-shot that is much lower than your +10 or +11, knowing why will help you decide whether or not to shoot. "

    There is more, but lets start with this. Let me know if you need clarification.
     
  50. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    One of the goals with everything I'm saying, is to get you to a comfort level so you can make your own dosing decisions.
     
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  51. Kerri & Tigger

    Kerri & Tigger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2019
    That all makes perfect sense! Also something you posted elsewhere with the "no shoot" number as the stop-and-think number. It's all coming together.
     
  52. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
     
  53. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Krystie,
    Your reply got buried in the orange quote text box.

    Here is what you replied:
    "This is so helpful. I’m saving this to refer back.

    I got my times confused, as I usually shoot by 7, and with my indecision I shot at 7:30., sooooo my +2 was actually a +1.5 :confused: I even set an alarm, but the alarm in my brain override it. I have another alarm set to wake me up for the +6 though. That one should at least be the correct time. Yeesh..."

    That's ok. Putting the info in the +2 cell on the SS and making a note with the actual time is close enough. (manually color code cell)

    Alarms in our brains do sometimes override. Or we don't hear the reminder on our cell phones. I do that frequently. Or "sleep" the alarm notice on my cell for 15 more minutes.

    p.s. I'd like to see you posting over on the Prozinc forum. I think you are ready. Simply start a new post over there, and link this post into the top of the new post in the
    Prozinc / PZI

    Not as busy over there. You can always post for help in the Welcome & Main forum for more immediate assistance, like emergency very low BG numbers, <50 mg/dL.

    Are YOU ready????
     
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  54. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020

    I think I am. I guess I’ll find out...

    Right now Sirius and I are just trying to get more data and tests in at those random times. Yesterday didn’t work out like I wanted to, and today will be tough with my work schedule to get any day time tests...

    Should I wait to post there until I have a question for them...?
     
  55. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Go now. I'm one of the main support people over in the Prozinc ISG. So I'll still be helping you.
     
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  56. Kerri & Tigger

    Kerri & Tigger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2019
    When I read these posts this morning, I kind of imagined Krystie a little teary-eyed, and maybe giving a sidelong look at the microwave, at the idea that Deb was pushing her out of the nest! :p Happy graduation to Prozinc ISG!
     
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