Need advice please

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by PatJ, Mar 10, 2020.

  1. PatJ

    PatJ Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Has anyone heard of a new dry food by Hills called Biome? My cat has been diagnosed with chonic pancreatitis and the vet has given him Synulox antibiotics and Onsior anti- inflammatory every other day and despite asking for fluids I'm told that he doesn't need them and that pancreatitis is cured by food and onsior every other day, and that the food he should be on is this Biome dry stuff, because it is supposed to be revolutionary and the way to go for treating pancreas trouble, although they don't mention the pancreas on the packet. It's to support digestive health. She says she's had good results with it, How can this be good for a diabetic cat if it keeps his BG levels high?If anyone has heard of it, could you let me know if I'm right in thinking it's rubbish or maybe she's right? Thank you in advance.
     
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  2. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Question number 1 to ask your vet. Has she used this food with a diabetic cat?
    If so, what did it do to the blood glucose levels and the insulin needs for a diabetic cat?

    Looked up the information for the Hill's Biome food. I had never heard of it before.

    Sounds to me like your vet is forgetting about William's diabetes and is trying to find a food to help with only the pancreatitis. What sort of testing has your vet done for the GI issues and the suspected pancreatitis? Was an fPLI test done? Was a full GI panel of blood tests done?

    The Hill's website did mention several conditions their various digestive care foods are supposed to help.
    Acute gastroenteritis, colitis, diarrhea, constipation, pancreatitis, irritable bowel syndrome, exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, small intestinal malabsorption.

    But that list of medical conditions are not specific to this new Biome food.

    Here is the ingredients list for the dry food version:
    Chicken, Brewers Rice, Chicken Fat, Pea Protein, Wheat Gluten, Whole Grain Corn, Corn Gluten Meal, Ground Pecan Shells, Chicken Meal, Cracked Pearled Barley, Whole Grain Oats, Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Liver Flavor, Pea Fiber, Flaxseed, Dried Citrus Pulp, Fish Oil, Lactic Acid, L-Lysine, Choline Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Pumpkin, Pressed Cranberries, Fructooligosaccharides (FOS), DL-Methionine, Taurine, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Psyllium Seed Husk, Calcium Sulfate, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Mixed Tocopherols for freshness, Iodized Salt, Natural Flavors, Beta-Carotene.

    With all those grain products, I can't imagine it would help William's diabetes at all.

    Here is the ingredients list for the canned food version of the Hill's Biome food.
    Chicken Broth, Chicken, Pork Liver, Carrots, Rice Starch, Wheat Gluten, Spinach, Ground Pecan Shells, Rice, Chicken Liver Flavor, Flaxseed, Soybean Oil, Potassium Alginate, Whole Grain Barley, Dried Citrus Pulp, Fish Oil, Dried Beet Pulp, Calcium Chloride, L-Lysine, Natural Flavor, Pumpkin, Pressed Cranberries, Powdered Cellulose, Guar Gum, Dicalcium Phosphate, Choline Chloride, Oat Fiber, Potassium Citrate, Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Fructooligosaccharides (FOS), Calcium Lactate, Calcium Gluconate, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, Psyllium Seed Husk, minerals (Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Iodate.

    Again, lots of grain and starch sources in the canned version too.

    The Hill's US website actually listed the carb content, on a dry matter basis. -
    For the dry food version 36.1% carbs, 35.8% protein, 18.5% fat, 4.5% fiber
    https://www.hillspet.com/cat-food/pd-gastrointestinal-biome-feline-dry

    For the canned food version. 33.1% carbs, 37.3% protein, 19% fat, 4.5% fiber

    https://www.hillspet.com/cat-food/pd-gastrointestinal-biome-feline-ckicken-and-vegetable-stew-canned

    Personally, and this is only my opinion, I don't think the Hill's Biome food is a good choice for a diabetic cat.

    But then, I'm always a bit skeptical of food promoted by a pet food manufacturer that can only be sold by a veterinarian or at a vet office or clinic. Profit motive is the reason I'm skeptical of this type of pet food marketing.
     
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  3. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    I have to absolutely agree with Deb. That food is made of carbs. I can't imagine it's good for any cat, let alone a diabetic cat. I am also very wary of the prescription diets, as I have often seen them do more harm than good. I would tell your vet you are not planning on feeding your diabetic cat a high carb diet, and ask what your other options are.
     
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  4. PatJ

    PatJ Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Hi Deb, My goodness, the trouble you've taken! Thank you so much!

    I have to confess that because she was so adamant that this was a miracle worker, I gave him a small handful just to see what it did and his BG went skyrocketing, so that was the end of that. I knew I shouldn't have done it. I was so stupid to give it to him.
    How can she recommend a food with 36% carbs for a diabetic cat? I didn't know that it was 36% carbs until you told me. When I asked if it was high carbs, she dismissed it. I printed out the information for the vets that you recommended and took it with me but I didn't dare to give it to her because she gets very irate if you dare to argue with her. Anyway, I've had enough of being told that he doesn't need fluids and the way to go is to give him this dry stuff. She says that she has had good results with this food for pancreatic cats. She told me I was feeding my cat rubbish when she didn't even know what I was giving him. I said it was low carb and she dismissed it as not as good as that dried food.And you're right, there is no mention of treating pancreatitis on the packet!

    I'm not too sure about what the name of the test was but it was on a little white machine and there were two blue dots that showed that he had trouble with his pancreas. He did get everything else tested with a blood test there were about fifteen things on it I think and his cholesterol, blood glucose and pancreas were a bit high but everything else was all right.

    She is adamant that he doesn't need fluids and told me that the only thing that will cure it is food. Well I've read things that say differently. I don't think I've got much choice but to change vets, because they're never going to listen.

    Thank you Deb. Thank you very much for all that information. :)
     
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  5. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    Pat, I agree with you. I think it's time to try a different vet. My vet doesn't agree with everything we did to get Billy healthy and in remission, but he was at least willing to listen and work with us, and accept that we were not going to follow all of his advice. That wasn't everything I hoped it would be, but it was good enough.

    It's hard to ignore what a vet says. We're used to trusting them and listening to them. I don't blame you for trying the "magic" dry food, but I'm proud of you for following up with testing his BGL. That tells you everything you need to know about that prescription food. Just like human doctors, vets are not nutritionists. Food companies like Hill's push those prescription foods, and the vets think they must be good. Quite a few cat owners can tell you differently.

    Good luck on finding a new vet. There's a great article here that has tips on how to find one that will work with you.
     
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  6. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    I'm a pretty good researcher. When it comes to something I don't know, I like to look it up.

    Think the "detail oriented' gene in me got doubled from the normal amount that some people have.:rolleyes: Sometimes, I have to remember to step back and look at the "big picture" and not focus too much on the fine details. "Seeing the forest among the trees."

    If you let me know what area of France you live in (closest town or city), I'll ask on the French language facebook diabetes group if they know of a good vet in your area. Not promising anything. But I'll try to find out for you.

    You could also join the group yourself. You do need to know a bit of French. I don't so I use google translate for everything. Here is the link to that French language group again. https://www.facebook.com/groups/chatdiabetique

    Also, ask your current vet for paper copies of all the blood work and other tests that have been done. Since you are the cats owner, and you have paid for those tests, you have a legal right to ask for copies. All that documentation will help us to help you better.

    There are actually people here on the message board that can read the lab test results and give you ideas of what is going on. So if you can get the lab test results, and post them either here, or on William's spreadsheet, on the "labs" tab, then we can help find someone here to let you know what the labwork means.

    We do need the "reference ranges". Those vary from testing lab to testing lab and each lab can have their own normal ranges. It usually says on the lab results paper work what the "reference ranges" are.

    For instance, my vet uses Antech for their lab work. Those "reference ranges" are different than what Idexx uses.

    Sorry to hear your vet is "adamant" about only following her advice. That vet or doctor attitude of "I know best, don't question me.", and "you don't know anything, how dare you think you know more than I know about feline diabetes" is all too common.
     
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  7. PatJ

    PatJ Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Sadly, you're right. I really like this vet and for everything else she's really good and there are lots of things that she knows about diabetes but she has been hoodwinked by the reps with the food and she won't budge. I don't want to change but at the same time, if she's never going to be wrong then I'll go back to my old vet. What really riles me is that I worked with dogs for a full 45 years and used to know when they should see a vet i.e. lumps, bumps, baldness, bad eyes, teeth etc; so I'm not stupid, but you're treated, like you say, as if you know nothing. It just puts you off going back.


    Thanks for the suggestion about finding a vet on facebook, but there are only two vets close enough. This one is a half hour drive away and he gets very stressed (the cat, that is) and the other one is only 20 minutes away, and he does at least listen to you. There is one other, about 40 minutes drive away, but he told my friend that if the cat that she brought in for treatment shot out of his basket and ran round the surgery, then he would open the window and let him out. She said, 'You're not serious?' and he said 'Yes I am,' so he's not going there! He seems quite bright at the moment though so fingers crossed he'll stay that way. But I'll be watching him like a hawk.

    I'll get up to the vet for copies of the blood tests as soon as I can. Thanks so much for all your help. It's really appreciated.
     
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  8. PatJ

    PatJ Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018

    Hi Juls,

    Thanks for your reply. If my vet would listen to me I would stay with her, but I do think it's a French thing.They can be very officious. It's not just the vets. They are always right. You're so lucky to have a vet like the one you have. It makes a lot of difference when people meet you halfway. Having said that, the vet that I'm going back to will at least listen. (I hope he lets me come back!)

    Well done for getting Billy into remission!:) Hope he stays that way.

    Vets are educated people, so it is mystifying why they are so easily hoodwinked by the dry food companies!
     
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  9. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

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    Dec 28, 2019
    Old habits die hard. I had type II diabetes over a year ago. Kicked it to the curb with proper diet and taking a walk a few times a week. Yet there's still a ton of human doctors that think the only way to handle it is meds and what you eat doesn't make that big a difference. My doctor, who was very skeptical, was at least willing to give me the chance when I told her I was not going to take the med and was going to try to deal with it myself first.
     
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  10. PatJ

    PatJ Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Very well done for reversing your diabetes! It takes a lot of willpower not to eat chocolate and ice cream! Did you get Billy in remission through diet alone or did he need a bit of help with insulin? Lots of people with type 2 diabetes, if it's caught early enough, can bypass the insulin and eat properly, but it seems that our cats have to have insulin, at least to start with, but Billy hasn't been diagnosed for very long and you've already got him in remission. How brilliant is that?!:)
     
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  11. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    We used a combination of insulin and diet with Billy. Basically, we followed everything recommended by this site, and had some great members helping us. Some cats hit remission quickly, some take longer, some need insulin their entire lives. I know we got lucky with Billy. It's pretty clear to me that his diabetes was caused by diet, steroids, and obesity and he did not have any additional underlying health problems.

    Me, I've got Psoriasis. When it's bad, it causes inflammation of a lot of things, contributing to my diabetes, hyperthyroid, and arthritis. Even with the underlying condition, it's shocking how much proper diet can help.
     
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  12. PatJ

    PatJ Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Sorry I didn't reply earlier, have had visitors and have been super busy.

    Just to say that I totally agree with you about food acting as a medicine (no side effects either!) and I wish I'd done the same for William in his early days of being diabetic. His condition was also caused by steroids and dry food. In fact the steroids very nearly killed him.

    Do you treat every condition that you have with diet? What rotten luck to have psoriasis making everything worse. It must make you feel really miserable.

    I've got a brilliant book called 'How not to die' about food treating you rather than drugs and makes so much sense. You might know it. It's written by an American doctor and he despairs over the ignorance or refusal of a lot of doctors to recognise the importance of eating the right food. The drugs companies certainly don't want that!
     
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  13. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

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    Dec 28, 2019
    I do use diet to help control a lot of it, especially the diabetes and the thyroid. I'm trying to avoid having to use drugs for all different things aggravated by the psoriasis as long as possible. So far, it works pretty well.
     
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