Hi everyone! I thought I would make a proper thread here since I ended up updating my general question with Jonas's BG readings throughout the day. I hope it helps my jitters to be able to talk things out and share with those who are much better at this than I am. We increased to 3.25U last night and had one of his best days yet, I was so happy to see him have a lot of yellows today and I'm looking forward to getting him a bit lower than that. Right now living in blues and yellows would make me a very happy mama and help my own nerves a lot because I have been a wreck worrying over him lately. His PMPS was a little lower than last night, not by much though, so I kept him at 3.25U tonight. I wish I would've given him 3U this morning but I am trying to learn. I'll be testing again at +2 before I go to bed and depending on where he is, I will probably set at least one alarm to check him during the night. His Tiki Cat dry food arrived today and he LOVES it, but I want to make sure he isn't significantly dropping between that and a dose increase (he is still getting some small portions of his higher carb treats to balance things out). I just want him out of the reds but I don't want him to get too low, especially at night. Despite all of my incessant worrying, he's felt very good today. Peed and pooped the usual amount, was very eager for food, purred, cuddled with his brother (they're taking a nap in the living room recliner now), nuzzled the pup, and generally seemed active and alert. I got a shipping notification for his ketone meter so I hope it will be here early next week and I can really learn how to breathe again because I haven't been these last few days!
You bought dry food? Is that for when he's too low? I didn't think Tiki cat made a low carb dry food. I know the born carnivore is 24% carb... So that's not low, is there a different one?
It is that one, it was marked as low carb and some reviews mentioned diabetic kitties so I thought it was a good option as he transitions off of normal dry food. He’s not given it for meals but we have 7 kitties total and there is one bowl we leave down that he sometimes snacks in, so I wanted to switch that out for a lower carb one. But it’s a moot point now as I just found out even the chicken one has salmon oil in it and he’s reacted badly to salmon before so we stay away from it... I feel so stupid and hope he won’t have any adverse effects. Hopefully not since it’s been a few hours since he has any and he’s fine. Are there some low carb dry options with chicken out there that are recommend? His +2 was 370 so not much change yet which I know means this cycle should be stable? I just am eager for that number and his pre-shot to at least be in the yellows. I’m going to set an alarm for +5.5 since his peak seems to be around there just to be on the safe side. I’m exhausted now so I’ll try and sleep some until then ❤️ Thank you again for your help!
The Tiki Cat is low carb in the sense that most dry foods are 35-45% carb, but way too high for a diabetic. There are only a few dry foods under 10. One is Young Again Zero Carb... which I fed for about a year until it started giving her terrible diarrhea.... not sure if they changed their formula or what happened. That one is about 1% carb. I believe it is pork based. Another is Dr. Elsey's Clean Protiein Chicken Flavor... not bad at around 8ish I think? my cats weren't crazy about it. I leave out some dry for my non diabetic cats... I leave out Wysong's Epigen 90 which is somewhere around 8-9 carb. I don't give it to my diabetic because I feel she really needs wet food... esp with compromised kidneys. Plus I find the dry raises her numbers for a long time. btw, all the foods I mentioned will send you a free sample if you ask them.
Oh my gosh, that would be AMAZING. I'm mad that I spent $15 on the Tiki Cat bag and didn't even check the ingredients for that salmon oil (or know it wasn't the best choice for him, ugh). I will absolutely look into those, thank you so much for the recommendations. I'll look into them more on my lunch break. He always gets given strictly wet food for his meals, he has plain baked chicken twice a day as a snack when the pup eats, and we are working on swapping out all servings of Party Mix for Purebites chicken and shrimp. The dry is just something we leave out for all of the kitties to graze from, so a low carb option would be healthier for everyone. We have one IBS kitty, Jonas is the sugar cat, nobody else has any health issues but I still would prefer having them all on a healthier, more cat-friendly diet He was at 350 this morning so that at least means we went a full 24 hours with no reds and I'm taking that as a win. Now to get rid of the purples! I administered 3.25U, I am thinking we will probably try the 3.5U increase if necessary tomorrow since it'll be the weekend and I won't have any work commitments.
Yippee for no reds! I'd like to see if 3.5 helps. party mix and temptations are the devil. I give them when she's in hypo.
PMPS is 339 and his two checks this afternoon were 318 and 292 no reds still for close to 48 hours!!!! I'm sticking with 3.25 tonight and will probably go up to 3.5 in the morning so I'll be awake for more frequent testing. I have barely slept lately so I'm going to test him at +2 and possibly +4 tonight and decide if I need to set any alarms or if I can sleep through this time! I have a super hard time falling back sleep after I wake up unfortunately so I'm running on fumes. Jonas got super sick on Temptations once years ago and I've never let any of the kitties have them since, but we do feed them to some feral kitties we leave food out for since it definitely helps them gain weight, LOL! Reducing party mix will be good for Jonas's brothers and sisters too Two of them are a little overweight and I'd like to see them lose a pound or two each, so the purebites will hopefully benefit them as well. I'll definitely still keep some on hand if he gets hypo, and I have gravy lovers fancy feast for that as well that he licks up no matter how he's ever been feeling. Thank you so much again for your help <3
I just got his +2 and he's up to 359, which is of course much higher than I want but he usually seems to be about the same or even a bit higher at his +2 mark. I guess because PZI is slow-acting? He also did sneak some contraband earlier today that I was worried would drive him up a bit. Hopefully it falls better in the next few hours <3 Will it be okay to go ahead and sleep and not wait for a +4? I thought I could stay up a bit longer but I'm just wiped out.
I did go to sleep and wowwwww I needed it LOL. I heard him up during the night playing and I think that helped me sleep better! Unfortunately AMPS was 412 so he got 3.5U with his cod, sole, and shrimp feast pate this morning. I’m hopeful this will maybe be his ideal dose since we saw a lot more progress on 3.25.
To be honest I would be surprised if you see much progress before 4.5. Looks like he's stuck a bit.... But we will get there. Great sign that he's playing.
Down to 361 at +4, was hoping it'd be a bit more than that but I'm trying not to worry too much he's been in a great and playful mood this morning. I'll do another test probably at +6. It actually read 103 at first and I was a bit panicked at such a huge drop so fast but there wasn't enough blood on the strip (it only went about halfway up). I'm glad I retested him even though I didn't like the second number either!
He was up all morning and finally took a big nap this afternoon so I ended up doing a +10 check instead, 376 I definitely think he'll end up needing a higher dose. I'm bummed after how great of a day he had the other day. All of my nerves are coming back full force, but I'm trying to look at how he's feeling and not just the number. He had several more play sessions before he napped and is generally feeling pretty feisty He's got a great appetite, he's drinking well, he's had normal pees and poops today (and he's preened, so there's the 5 P's.) His meter should be here Monday morning so I'm trying to keep breathing until then.
PMPS of 463... I had a good crying fit over this one. I kept him at 3.5U (the last time he was up this high, I did 3.5U out of panic and he reacted very well, I hope maybe that will happen again) but I suspect we'll need that increase soon. Trying really hard to focus on how he's feeling but I'm really scared and have so many fears racing through my head. He seems totally, completely fine and normal, and I know I need to focus on that.
Hey one point better than my cat's pmps. CC was 464 Lol. You can't let one day of numbers effect you so much. It's a marathon.
Oh no I'm so sorry that CC was up tonight too. I was just so happy with that 48ish hour stretch of no reds that seeing numbers that high again is super frustrating. I hope she's feeling good tonight despite the reds <3
Back to 412 again this morning I was hoping he’d at least be in the 300s. I think tomorrow morning we’ll probably go up to 3.75U.
We had a bit of a bounce day that I freaked out over in the general forum, but down to 347 PMPS which I will not complain about Holding at 3.5U tonight and we'll see what happens in the morning. Despite some scary earlier BGs (his first-ever recorded 488 at +4, WAY too close to 500 for mama) he's been a rockstar today! He's peed twice, had a good poo, had quite the appetite, got some good drinks, preened, and played both with toys and with a couple of his sisters... to the point that one of them was NOT having it, lol. I'm taking the day off work tomorrow because I've been a little ill this weekend with my own chronic issues (endometriosis) and I'm still pretty nauseous and just worn down. So I'll check him once or twice tonight and probably get one during the night while I don't have to worry about work.
259 at +2... which is GREAT but I'm a little nervous too, he's usually pretty close to the same number at this time. Luckily no work tomorrow. I'll be up for at least another 2 hours and see where he's at then. I'll definitely set some alarms for the night too.
Down to 162 at +4... I am so happy but so terrified. Keeping a very close eye on him. This is uncharted territory for me.
Just down 4 more points, 117 at +6 so hopefully I've cushioned this drop a bit I definitely wasn't expecting a night like this... combination of much less dry and a very active day for him maybe? I'm super tired but at least going to hang in there for a +7. Lots of data to use for the future I guess!
@JanetNJ I remember seeing a post (I think in the Prozinc forum here?) about how the +2 test was a good indicator of how things would go in that cycle, which was definitely the case tonight. Do you happen to know where I might be able to find it? I looked through the stickies and didn't see it but I'd like to bookmark it.
Or not... 103 at +7, I really can't believe this is happening and I'm a bit concerned the gravy lovers didn't do anything? That was 2 hours ago now, surely it should have kicked in.
Back up to 117 at +8, I'm going to try and sleep for a little bit and check him again around +9.5 just to make sure we haven't dropped anymore. I'm probably being overly paranoid but this was completely new to me... I know technically those numbers were GREAT, they just startled me a bit (especially since the gravy lovers didn't seem to do a thing!)
Wow wonderful numbers!!!! Oh girl, I feel ya. I've got andrometreosis and fibroids, one of which is the size of a cantaloupe and causes some insane bleeding and anemia. It's hard being a woman sometimes.
No I don't. It's just something to know. Congrats on the great numbers. During the day is ok to let her dp closer to those nice low blues and high greens. Those are the numbers that let the pancreas rest and heal.
Here ya go - posted by Deb & Wink http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/need-advice-on-falling-numbers.228727/ Copy & Paste from above thread as posted by Deb & Wink: "Member Chris&China said this a long time ago and many times. I expanded on it some and modified it to include some specifics for Prozinc. With Prozinc by Deb & Wink: More than a number range, think of the percentage of the drop at +2, that may tell you if your cat is going to drop much lower. Think of that +2 as being an indicator of what direction the BG levels may be headed. With Prozinc, if you see a 40%, 50% or greater drop, between the pre-shot and that +2, that's a serious heads up warning. If you see a 20-25%, 30% drop, not quite so worrisome. But still be cautious. Your cat drops 2 color ranges between pre-shot and the +2, pull out your hypo kit and plan on staying up to test. Your cat drops 2 color ranges between pre-shot and the nadir, that is to be expected. But you don't want the drop to be much more than 50% between pre-shot and nadir with Prozinc. Cats tend to bounce high if the drop is 50% or more from pre-shot to nadir. So you steer those mid-cycles with food, to slow down the steep drop and stop the bounces from being too high. It's a balancing act. With Lantus/levimir by Chris & China (a lot of this holds true for Prozinc also) "The +2 is like an "early warning" for most cats! If the +2 is about the same as the PS, it's usually a pretty normal cycle...dropping down to nadir and then rising back up again. (About the same means taking meter variance, that 15% variance that hand held glucometers are allowed to have into account) If the +2 is higher than the PS, that usually signals a bounce, and those are the cycles when you can usually take a break from testing. If the +2 is lower than the PS, that's your "Early warning" that kitty might be going much lower later in the cycle so it's important to plan on getting another test or two (or 6) in."
@JanetNJ Oh my heart goes out to you, being a girl can be... extremely taxing sometimes, to say the least! Jonas was at 134 for his AMPS, I am still a bit rattled but proud of him. @Shelley & Jess That was exactly what I was looking for! I was going crazy trying to find it again. Thank you so much!
Oh, Jonas's ketone meter came! He was at .2 which sounds like it's nothing to worry about I feel relieved having this in hand. He is a very tired boy today but given how much I woke him up during the night, I feel like that may be to be expected. He was very perky this morning and ate well both with breakfast and his baked chicken. I'll keep an eye on him but just trying to let him rest right now <3
Thank you @Shelley & Jess for finding that old post of mine. Means I don't have to try and dig it up. Of course, I've saved it in a Word document, so can open that document anytime and pull out what is needed. Lots of helpful hints and tricks in my personal document folder. Whitney! You did good! Very good! Slowly but surely, you are getting the hang of this treatment for feline diabetes and learning how it affects YOUR cat Jonas. ECID Every Cat is Different, and you are seeing some of those differences. Please keep up the ketone testing daily. From this thread, Ketones/Diabetic Ketoacidosis (DKA): Ketones, Diabetic Ketoacidosis (DKA), and Blood Ketone Meters When do ketones show up on a blood ketone meter such as the Nova Max Plus or Precision Xtra Blood & Ketone meters? The latest published research/studies in cats indicate ketones will begin to show up at readings of 2.4 and 2.55 on a blood ketone meter: Measurement of ketones - Weingart_J VET Diagn Invest-2012(1).pdf Measuring ketones - JSAP_Zeugswetter - 2012.pdf Make sure that Jonas is eating enough. It's one of the ways to keep those ketones from forming. Extra water in the food doesn't hurt either. Think a thick corn chowder consistency.
Deb, thank you SO much. I can't tell you how happy I am I found this website and I only wish I had sooner so we could've been on the right path ages ago. I know he is a tank though and he's just going to flourish even more with this kind of extra special attention I'm so relieved to have the meter... I've been agonizing with fear that he could be moments away from DKA and now I can check him at any moment and have reassurance that that's definitely not the case. Luckily (maybe sometimes unluckily for his BG lol) he is a great eater so we're not having any troubles there currently He's pretty good at drinking on his own, a bit better than some of his siblings are. We have water bowls throughout the house to make sure there is always an ample amount available. I never thought about adding water to his wet food though! That is a fantastic idea, thank you so much and for these links! Copying text into a doc is a great idea. I have the google docs (and sheets) app on my phone so that'll be a great way to make sure it's always handy. That +2 guideline is going to help me a lot at night I think, I am so paranoid of him dropping low while I'm asleep and I'm not sleeping enough because of it. I think he's going to run a bit high tonight, I backed off on his dose a little bit because he hasn't eaten as much as normal today after I kept him up so much last night... he had a LOT of napping to catch up on! All five P's are accounted for though and he already seems perkier than he was, I just really threw off his schedule along with mine Thank you all again so much, you and this place are godsends
You're welcome. Read other threads. It's a great way to find more info that we haven't mentioned for you specifically.
I had a crazy busy day at work today so I only got Jonas's AMPS and PMPS; I figure he deserved a break after the other night, anyways! He's had an awesome day and felt totally like himself after he caught up on sleep yesterday. His lower carb dry is here and I swapped the dish we leave out with that instead to try it. He likes it so it's a start as we transition him to less dry snacks! With that in mind, I kept him to 3U tonight just to make sure he doesn't drop much lower without having his higher carbs to munch on. His PMPS was 388 which is still high but not in the reds like normal. We've been seeing a lot more purple PMPS readings lately small steps!
Baby steps in this feline diabetes journey are good! Jonas, your mom Whitney would like to see more yellows please. Think you could do that, with the change to a lower carb dry food? With trace blood ketones 0.2, skipping his shot entirely is NOT something you want to do. Jonas needs insulin and food to keep those ketones from forming. You never want to give more insulin if you think you did a furshot. That is because you can never be sure how much insulin actually went into your cat. So it's a catch-22 situation, if you think you gave a fur shot. I'd think you would want to ketone test daily, and if you think you did a furshot, monitor his BG levels if you are home to do that. Yeah, work kind of makes that impossible. You do the best you can Whitney, you do the best you can.
Gosh, yes I sure would!! He was still in the purples this morning so I was at least happy for that I don't think he hit the reds at all during the night. His ketones were still at .2 again today, I can't wait for them to be GONE but I am super glad they at least aren't in the danger zone. I have another crazy busy day at work but I'll get a BG check in during my lunch break. I go back to working on site in less than a month and I am already super nervous about that, so I hope we can really get him regulated before then. Thank you so much for all of your support and advice Deb <3 it is greatly appreciated.
He was 318 at +5, so close to the yellows!!! He also had a nice play session with his sister Beth this morning he's drank well, eaten well, peed, and purred too!
I’d get that boy back to 3.5. Wanna see those yellows and blues. And get rid of all traces of ketones.
@JanetNJ @Deb & Wink 3.5U it is!! Thank you ladies for your counsel <3 He was 371 at PMPS so I'm at least hopeful we stayed out of those nasty reds today. Will I be okay to not wake up and check him tonight? This is the part that makes me nervous. This week at work has been crazy and tomorrow is going to be more of the same. I'm a very light sleeper and have a difficult time falling back asleep once I get up. I'll check him at +2, if that number is consistently around his PMPS should we be fine?
Cat's are unpredictable. But if the +2 is higher than PMPS or about the same, not as likely that Jonas will drop.Possible, but not as likely. If that +2 is lower, it's often a sign that the BG levels are headed in that direction too, lower. You could always leave a bit of wet food out for him overnight, after that +2 and before you head to bed. So he could get a snack if he feels his BG levels dropping. Many cats will naturally do that, seek out food if they feel their BG levels getting low. Crazy busy work weeks are tough. Hope you get a day off soon.
He was at 295 this morning!!!!!!! Progress And I got at least a little sleep, also progress, lol. I'll be able to get a +5 on him for sure and I'll try to grab a +7/8 if I have some space between meetings so I can see how he's doing with his 3.5U. (Whoops, it looks like I had this typed in and never sent it because it was greyed out when I came to report on his PMPS. Oops!) He was back up to 412 tonight for PMPS, boooo. Could this be a bit of a bounce? I want to get rid of these awful reds, it seems like he goes about 48 hours without them then they sneak back in. Still 3.5U tonight!
I've done that plenty of times. Good on keeping the dose at 3.5U for tonight, 6/11/20. Looks like Jonas may need another dose increase real soon. We don't want to see him in those blacks, reds or pinks at pre-shot. Even the high yellows (>250) are too high. Mainly, because he has a trace of ketones, and we want to get rid of those ASAP. How do you feel about another dose increase of 0.25U? I think that an increase to 3.75U would be good. Unless Jonas gives you an unexpectedly low < 80-100 BG number somewhere in this PM cycle.
Sorry for the late reply Deb, yet another crazy day... I'm so glad it's the weekend! I didn't have a chance to check in earlier so I'm just now seeing this. I gave him 3.5U both times today but I definitely would like to increase to 3.75 tomorrow and see how he does... I desperately want to get him out of those ranges for his pre-shots. I'm afraid he may be bouncing a bit tonight because he went from 345 PMPS to 404 at +2... trying hard not to stress too badly, I just want to get him into lower numbers. He was still at .2 ketones so at least they haven't increased, but I want them GONE!
Good morning! 393 AMPS so we increased to 3.75U this morning. I’m nervous as heck because it psychologically seemed like so much more in the syringe (I recounted it so many times before I gave it to him, lol). But at least it’s Saturday so I’ll be able to get some more frequent checks in. He ate breakfast great! ETA: He just got a nice drink right after breakfast too! I also forgot to mention that he woke me up playing last night, I’m really proud of how he’s acting and trying to focus on that and not let my worrying eat me alive!
168 at +9!! I know that's AWESOME but this is where I start getting nervous, lol. I'm worried about giving him too much insulin for his PM shot depending on where he's at.
Why do the mid-range blues make you nervous? You've been giving Jonas insulin for a long time, but perhaps not home testing anywhere near as long. Are you using the Prozinc SLGS protocol? Neither your signature or the SS says which protocol you are using. p.s. New thread tomorrow please. We like to see threads at 50 posts or less, whenever possible. Link the old thread at the top of the new one. For reference.
Sorry, I worded that badly. I didn't mean the blues made me nervous, but the thought of him still being below 200ish at shot time because that's when I get nervous and confused on how much insulin to give him. 3.75U would seem like too much in that case, but I don't want him to go high either. We shot blind for so many years and now I'm terrified of him getting low. Our vet only ever wanted him to come in once a year for testing :/ I feel like an idiot for just blindly following that advice. I'm actually a bit confused about TR? I couldn't find a definition anywhere but I probably missed it. I guess maybe in a way we'd be following a modified SLGS? Not starting at 1 of course because he's already been on much more than that for years, but I am trying to increase by .25U at a time. I can add that if you think he suits that definition, I just wasn't sure what to go with I will start a new thread for him tomorrow, thank you for telling me that! I assumed it just stopped after a certain number of posts and that's when you made a new one, oops.
There is a Prozinc equivalent to the Lantus TR protocol. It's the MPM (Modified Prozinc Method). You can find it in the stickies at the top of this forum. Look for the one that mentions "dosing methods" in the title of the thread. Look those over and see which one you think you'd like to use. We do things the old fashioned way. Manually. So, getting his "mojo" back and starting to act like he used to! Way to go Jonas!!!!!!