How much insulin to give

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Poopers and Catia, May 3, 2021.

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  1. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    Hello everyone!

    Poopers is regularly on 5 units of Caninsulin (we are changing to Lantus). Since i joined, everyne keeps telling me that 5 units is way too much. Yesterday Poopers dropped to 1.1mmol/L (20md/dl) at 1PM. I tested him multiple times during the day and by night his results went up to 9.4mmol/L (169md/dl) i was suggested not to give his insulin for the night.
    Now his numbers are at 12.1mmol/L (218md/dl)
    I was just wondering if i should give him any insulin at all or what units i should.

    This is the other thread incase you want background to the other conversation. https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-member.246860/#post-2784964
     
  2. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    Apr 30, 2021
    I have updated my spreadsheet incase you want to see all the numbers
     
  3. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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  4. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    You are still using the caninsulin aren’t you? Haven’t swapped over to Lantus yet?
     
  5. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    Yes i am still on Caninsulin for now
     
  6. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Yesterday @JanetNJ, who uses caninsulin, suggested you drop the dose to 2 units if the BG is over 200.
    So I think we should try 2 units and see how Poopers goes with that.
    Make sure he eats well before he has the shot (wait the 30 mins before the dose is given) and I would give him a small snack at +1 and +2.
    I would also get a +1 and a+2 test to see how he’s going so we can catch any drops early. Then decide when to test next.
    Are you happy with that?
     
  7. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    Yes we will do that. Thank you so much! I will update my Spreadsheet when i do the other tests and i will come back here and update you all. Thank you for your fast response :)
     
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  8. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    I just checked his levels! i gave him 2 units of insulin like you suggested at it is at 8.9mmol/L (160md/dl). Later on i will do another one to see where its at. Would you help me on the amount of units i should give him at night if you dont mind please.
     
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  9. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi Catia, Bron is in Australia and has gone to bed.

    I will tag @JanetNJ for dosing advice. If you do not hear from Janet or Bron, I would stick to the 2U. A few cycles on 2U should give you a good idea of whether Poopers needs more or less insulin.

    I shall watch out for your next test/post :)
     
  10. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    Th specialist called me to check up on Poopers and i told him how i want to change insulins and he asked why... i told him how i am on this group and that you all suggested Lantus because Caninsulin is mainly for dogs... He told me thats incorrect and that if we want to change to Lantus thats fine but hes not going to promise that Poopers will get better. He said when i change insulin to start at 1unit and to keep him updates. I dont think he was too glad that i mentioned the group. He told me to book an appointment next time... thats $150 just for him to see him. I am going to contact my vet hopefully i get a better response.
     
  11. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    If this is the "specialist" who recommended 5U of caninsulin, you are better off without him! I don't think you need an Rx in Canada for Lantus. I could be wrong.
    Tagging @Butters & Lyla and @thebigfuzz for confirmation.
     
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  12. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    No, you don't need a script for Lantus in Canada. Insulin is OTC there. Just call around to find the cheapest price for a 5 pack of Lantus Solostar Pens (they are a better buy than the vial) Just tell them it's for a cat so it doesn't go through your health insurance.

    A 5 pack of pens will be 1500 units. Each pen holds 300 units and you don't need the special pen needles either (so don't buy them!). We use regular U100 insulin syringes to pull the insulin out of the pen....using it like a "mini-vial".

    With the vial, you get 1000 units but most cats can't use that much before the vial starts to lose efficacy and you end up throwing a lot of it away. With the pens, you can use every drop in all 5 pens.

    Price for 5 pens should be around $100-125

    As for dose, once you get the Lantus we can help you determine a starting dose. When switching from one insulin to another, we take the dose of the old insulin into account when suggesting a starting dose for the Lantus.
     
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  13. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    Thats perfect to hear i definitely will call around. His attitude was for sure not what i expected and he did mention the special pen and for me to get it at his clinic lol. Thank you so much for your help i trust you much more than him. You all know exactly what i and Poopers are going through because you have been there, he has never been there so for him to say that i should be listening to him because he is the specialist is just arrogant. Once again thank you i will do more research on the products to get. Hopefully ill get them ASAP
     
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  14. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    For sure, his attitude was just not what i expected... And your right i dont im going to call around and find the best price
     
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  15. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    These are the syringes you should get. They have half unit markings so it is easier to measure. With Lantus, increases are usually 0.25 units.
    BD Insulin Syringes 3/10ml 31G 1/2 unit.
    You may have to call around to see who has them in stock. download copy 2.jpg
     
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  16. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    Perfect! thank you
     
  17. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    His number was good this morning considering you skipped. And was coming down nicely into the blues but not crashing fast. I look forward to seeing your next readings.
     
  18. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    Yeah i for sure agree! I’ll let you know when I update my spreadsheet
     
  19. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    Hey! i just updated my spreadsheet! I just tested Poopers and his level is at 8.3mmol/L (149md/dl). Just wondering how much insulin should i give him tonight? I am going to feed him in about 20 minutes and then insulin. This morning i gave him 2 Units
     
  20. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I would stall don’t feed and test again in20 mins to see if the BG is rising
    @JanetNJ
     
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  21. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Bron types faster than I do :). It would be good to stall, don't feed, and test again in 20 minutes, to see if his numbers are on the rise.
     
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  22. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    Ok i will do that!
     
  23. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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  24. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, Bron, no worries :bighug:
     
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  25. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    Hey i just updated the spreadsheet. It went down to 6.4mmol/L (115md/dl)
     
  26. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Catia. Since his numbers are still coming down, I would suggest that you skip again tonight. Had he stayed flat or started rising, you might have considered giving insulin, if you could continue to monitor his cycle tonight.
     
  27. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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  28. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Wait up to an hour and let’s see what happens. We may have to reduce the dose further
     
  29. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    I have no idea why it dropped that much :(. Would skipping insulin often do any harm to him?
     
  30. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    I can wait, hopefully he eats again in an hour
     
  31. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Nope, not if he’s in low numbers. Remember that insulin is not medication. It’s a hormone. It could be that your cats pancreas is waking up a bit and starting to work. While it can be tricky figuring out what to give, it’s a good thing.
     
  32. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    No, as long as he hasn't had a history of ketones or previously diabetic ketoacidosis, there is no harm in skipping. even after this skip last night, he really didn't go very high this morning.
     
  33. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Ok I’ll check in later and see. That about another half hour, right? I’ll set an alarm so I remember to check
     
  34. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    yeah! Its 8:37PM here so ill check again around 9:10PM. Thank you!
     
  35. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    Ok perfect im glad it wont do any harm!
     
  36. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Catia, please make sure you don't feed when you stall, you don't want the next BG test to possibly be influenced by food. When you mentioned hopefully he eats again..it caught my eye.
     
  37. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    I updated his spreadsheet. He did eat a little bit because in the morning he hadn't eaten that much and only had a small snack but he didnt eat that much.
     
  38. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Since that number is after eating we done know what the fasting number is. I would only give 1 u
     
  39. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    Ok We can give him 1 unit today. I will let you all know his numbers tomorrow morning. Thank you so much for all your help
     
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  40. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    If it were me, I'd still try and get one more test tonight, just to see what he's up to. If you can't, I'd make sure he has access to food when you go to bed, just to be on the safe side.
     
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  41. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Get a test right before you go to bed
     
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  42. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    Hi everyone!
    Last night his levels were at 11.3mmol/L (203md/dl) and i was suggested to give him 1 unit so i did.
    This morning for some reason i'm not able to get any blood out, well blood comes out but the monitor says its not enough and i think his paw is getting sore(i do it on his paw because i cant get anything from the ear).
    Would you suggest i just give him 1unit for now and monitor him closely? And i could check his results in a couple of hours to see how they are. Thank you!
     
  43. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi Catia,

    Were there any tests last night after that 203 to see how low he went on the 1U?
    Given his history with hypoglycemic seizures and dropping so low, I am reluctant to suggest you shoot blind!
     
  44. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    No i had a long day and went to bed, i can try one more time and hopefully i can get his results... hes going to hate me:facepalm:
     
  45. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    Hey i just checked and was able to get a result. His level is at 9.4mmol/L (169md/dl). How much do you think i should give him of insulin. His spreadsheet has been updated!
     
  46. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    If you can monitor closely today, I would give 1 unit. If you feed him a little at +1 and +2 as well, that would help keep him surfing.
     
  47. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    Will do that! Im home all day today for ill for sure keep checking up with him and staying by him to see his behavior. Thank you so much we appreciate your help!
     
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  48. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    Hey I just checked Poopers levels for PMPS and it’s at 13.5mmol/L (243md/dl). How much insulin do you guys suggest I give him? His levels have been pretty good today (in my opinion) last night and this morning I gave him 1U should I stay at that?
     
  49. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sorry no one got back earlier. Did you shoot 1U? I would stay at 1U for a couple of days and get some mid-cycle tests to see how low he's going on the dose and then decide whether to increase or not.
    @JanetNJ
    @Christie & Maverick
     
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  50. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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  51. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    I replied on the other post :oops:, long day of work for me, I wasn't paying attention.
     
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  52. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    Dont worry you for sure helped out!
     
  53. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    Yes i will do that tomorrow morning i will give 1 unit then! i will keep updating me spreadsheet and if any low number appear or high numbers i will update you guys. Does that sound good? Oh and when i get the Lantus insulin
     
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  54. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I’d do 1 unit for several days. If it winds up not being enough we can raise it to 1.25.
     
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  55. Poopers and Catia

    Poopers and Catia Member

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    ok will do thank you for your help!
     
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