Hi everyone My cat Wolvi was first diagnosed with diabetes in April 2019 and after 5 months he was in remission (you can check his SS). We were here at that time (Bobi we have several nicknames for him ) but with a mail that I have no longer so I decided to make another account. He is a 10 years old big cat but not overweight (around 9,7 kg). I would like to say that I have other cats and they all eat dry (I have microchip feeders because I have a renal cat too) and twice a day wet food. In 2019 we made him several blood works and everything was fine except for low potassium that after taking some pills for a while became normal again. He had (2019) diabetic neuropathy but I made something similar to zobaline and he completely recover from that. He had (2019) an appointment with an endocrinologist for searching for acromegalia and all that stuff but all came back normal so we never find the reason that he became diabetic. Now he still eats mostly wet food. But my problem is that even after he eats wet food he wants dry (meowing non-stop) because it was the food that he had all day all his life so I gave him just a teaspoon of dry when he doesn’t stop meowing (please do not judge me because I know that dry is not good for him). In the beginning of AugustI saw him drinking more water so I decided to check is glycemia and it was high. We went to the vet - he had high blood pressure, made some blood work, ecocardiography and all was normal. So now he his again on Prozinc… and atenolol (his pressure is now normal). I have been testing at home with a human meter and all the curves are done at home by me and the changes on insulin doses are made together with my vet. I would like to ask if you can take a look at his numbers and give me your thoughts about it because once again his numbers are crazy. Thank you in advance
I will tag Janet to look at your SS You need to put the dates in the date column Janet does her SS look like ours? I don't understand any of it The color coding up top doesn't look like ours either there is no black one @JanetNJ @Panic @Chris & China (GA) Thanks ladies
Why did you lower it so much from 3? He went below 90 so it should have been loweref only to 2.75. The dose you're giving is too low. Instead of giving dry food, give him more wet.
Janet does the SS look right to you? The dates I don't understand, are some in Portuguese and the rest say .1 Set, 2 Set 3 Set? and the color coding is not like ours plus there's no black one @JanetNJ I'm just trying to understand it Why is there U-40 and U-100 listed on the SS @JanetNJ
Hi Janet Nice to read you again since 2019 hope you are doing fine. Thanks for answer... I do give him more wet food but he still doesn't stop crying and panting and he gets stressed - and thats something that we don't want isn't it? About the Change of dose from 3 - that was the advise of my vet because it was looking he was bouncing (somogy). So we decided to begin again and try not to miss any chance of find a good dose. In 2019 it took almost 4 months to find it.
Hi Diane I use this SS since 2019 - I just personalized it a bit. It has u40 and u100 because Prozinc is a u40 insuline and I use u100 seringe - it's better for us here at home. 1 Set is 1 Setembro (september) but that I can change easy if necessary. In 2019 no one here told me nothing about it. About the color coding - the black is not at the top but when the numbers are higher then 500 they do show in black. The only intervals that i don't have are the two greens. I can't remember where I found this SS (maybe on the FB group) but I think that os not dificult to inderstand it.
He may be desperate for food because he's not processing the nutrients well. Let him eat as much as he needs. I see you raised a little. I would do 2.5. If it's not enough after a few days then reevaluate. The panting is weird. Does he have any heart problem?
Are you sure your phone isn't switching you into dark mode at night? The colors are normal if you aren't in dark mode. I am guessing set is short for September. I'm also assuming she's using u100's and a conversion chart.
Hi Janet yes Set is short for September. and yes I use the conversion chart. I will change the date format to DD/MM/YEAR as soon I have a little time.
Hi Janet For example I gave him wet food at 7.30 AM just before the insuline. At 10 AM he is asking for food - I gave him wet and he doesn't touch it and begin to meowing. I gave him a teaspoon of Purina DM dry and he eats it and go way. During the night he doens't ask for food. He only eats a teaspoon of dry at 10 AM and 17 PM. The rest of the day he eats wet as much as he wants. He pants (opens is mouth a bit) when he is streesed it was always like that. No he hasn't any heart problems because we made a eco in July/Agoust 2021. Yes I will gave him 2 for a few days and will rise to 2.5 if necessary. I saw this chart https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J5JpMe6TDXrHq_aTl9hUtHy6Gs9oRBqlz4nPGKxtySA/pubhtml I will buy the feringa cold pressed at zooplus maybe is better then purina dm until I weaned him from dry Thank you so much for answering
Hi Could you please take a look at Wolvi's SS. Shall rise his dose? Or shall make a curve tomorrow? Or is still too early with 2.2? Thanks ❤️ @JanetNJ @Chris & China (GA) P.S. i didnt have any answers so i phoned my vet and he said to give him 2.8 so i did it
Yes he could use an increase. Give 2.8 a try for a few days then I might try 3.2. We want to see blues mid day.
Thanks for your reply I had a blue at +5 I'm happy... Yes I will hold the 2.8 for a couple of days My vet likes to hold at least 7/8 days to make a curve... What's your opinion?
Good morning Could you please take a look at Wolvi SS Can I rise his shot to 3.2 already? Thanks and enjoy your Sunday ❤️❤️ @JanetNJ @Chris & China (GA)
Thanks for your advice... ❤️ I'm so afraid to rise that quickly because he usually bounces when we rise that much.
Bounces happen but you don't want insulin resistance from moving too slowly. When you start seeing numbers around 150 then go slower.
I know I know, you are right... I will rise to 3.4 because 3.5 in my syringe is not easy and certain...
Good morning Could you please take a look at Wolvi's SS. What do you think about his numbers with 3.4? His last meal at night is around 23 h (+4). And the first one is at 7 h (PS). During the day he eats several meals more or less 3 h hours between them - when he aaks for it. Thanks @JanetNJ
Much better numbers during the day! Looks like he bounces a little for the evening because he's not used to the blues. Let's give him more time to get used to these numbers.
Good morning What do you think of his numbers Janet? Yesterday evening he was asking for food so much and checked his values at +3.5 = 195 so probably he went down during the night Today morning I still gave him 3.4... What do you sugest? Make a curve today? Going to 3.2? Or give him more time to adjust? Thank you for your help @JanetNJ
If you can get a curve in this weekend that would be good. Dont lower the dose. Stick with 3.4 unless he goes low…. Below 85-90 ish.
I said lower because he goes down very quickly and in the evening he is very high - isn' t he bouncing? And yesterday morning he was 533. I tought that I should lower in this circunstances to prevent bouncing - so yesterday night I gave him 3.2 (because i just saw your message in the morning) __________ This morning as he was with 373 so I still gave him the 3.2... should I make a curve tomorrow or wait a couple of days? __________ Maybe I'm wrong but I was thinking that bouncing is something that we should prevent... So what we should do when a cat bounces ? Thanks
His numbers are too high to reduce…. His body needs to get used to going lower, not stay high. Bounces happen. If anything he’s due for another increase soon. We want to see that lowest point closer to 100.
Thanks This morning he was 373 and I gave him 3.2 because I was waiting for your answer... So I will return to the previous dose tonight and make a curve on monday.
Hi hope you are having a good weekend. Can you please take a look to wolvi ss I really don't know whats happening. Next week I'm going to put him Freestyle libre at least I can have more values. Thanks @JanetNJ
Thanks Janet Yesterday pm the numbers were low and I was really afraid to give him 3u. If he has for e.g. 160 can I give him 3u? I also asked for opinion on general forum because I know that you are more busy now (hope you don't mind) and I didn' t know if you were going to be here
When it's that low you should stall for an hour without feeding and retest. If the number is up and close to 200 or over 200 then dose 3. If it's about the same do a reduced dose. If it's lower perhaps skip.
@JanetNJ You have no ideia how Wolvi is when I prick him and don't give him food hehehe... He doesn't stop meowing Thanks once more for your help
Hi Hope you are all doing fine I would like to ask if you can take a look at Wolvi's SS. Last 26 October he got his first Freestyle Libre 2. But I still read his BG at amps and pmps. I made a new tab at his SS only for freestyle. He also made blood work and everything came back normal except for his creatinine that is 1.77 mg/dL and phosphorus is 5.9 mg/dL. I ordered Ipakitine to put in his food because it's not easy to find here a low carb wet food with low phosphorus. His numbers are really confusing me because if I use 2U he float all day around 200. But when I gave him 2.2U his numbers drop to fast and looks like he is bouncing. What is your opinion? Thanks a lot for your help. @JanetNJ
1.7 is not terrible. Are you sure you can't find any lower phosphorus food? 5.9 is not super high and will probably come down pretty well with the right foods. You have a very bouncy kitty. I like that 80 you got a few days ago. Stick with 2.2 for a few more days. Hopefully you will see more green numbers. I wish those preshots would come down
I will look better for the low phosphor food. But ipakitine will help as phosph binder isn't it? Imagine if he has around 250 at pmps shall i gave him 2.2? Today at + 9 he is 154... Ty
Hi Cris I didn't know what ipakitine was since you live in Portugal, so I looked it up and it's the same thing we use in the US ,we use aluminum hydroxide Yes it will help Wolvi I googled it to see what it was Ipakitine acts as a phosphate binder so the amount of phosphate your pets ingests is reduced. Ipakitine Powder Ipakitine Powder is dietetic complementary feeding stuff for support of renal function in case of chronic renal insufficiency a phosphate reducer aiding kidney function in cats and dogs. I'm sure your vet told you how much to start with One thing it can cause constipation, it did in my cat In wish Wolvi all the best Here is a site you can read about kidney disease and phosphorous https://www.felinecrf.org
Hi Diane Thanks for your answer I have another cat that has CKD so a read Tanya's site a lot. This girl takes aluminium hydroxid (that I must buy in a pharmacy that makes it specialy for her) because she has tendency to have calcium oxalate crystals and Ipakitine is not good for her. She already made cirurgy to take out a stone from one ureter . She is now 12 years old now and doing fine. She is the boss of the rest of the cats... ☺️
Oh I saw you said you ordered ipakitine in your post above #39 That's why I posted about it. I'm glad your other kitty is doing fine, She's the boss I wish you all the best
Yes yes I ordered Ipakitine for Wolvi (my sugar cat) the boss lady is Megan a tortie and she take aluminium hydroxid sorry sometimes english tricks me
Did your vet tell you to start giving a binder? Keep in mind they often cause constipation. Are you on Facebook? There's a good ckd group on Facebook called Cats with Chronic Renal Failure
@JanetNJ Good morning I didn't start because it didn't arrive. It was me that I asked to the vetand she said it could be a good idea. As a matter of fact today Wolvi is having troubles with making poo. When its necessary I use lactulose with other cats but I'm afraid with wolvi since he is diabetic. What people use with sugar babies for that problem? Yes the number last night was good but not today at amps
We use Polyethylene glycol 3350 Brand name: MiraLAX You can buy any brand of Polyethylene glycol 3350 it's cheaper than Miralax Either an 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon twice a day. I give Tyler an 1/8 of a teaspoon twice a day maybe every 2 days You have to see what works for Wolvi if it's too much cut back, just be sure to add a nice amount of water to his wet food when you add the miralax to it. You can buy the store brands like Clearlax ,etc it's much cheaper , it's the same thing as miralax
Today I manage to make him going to WC with microlax/baby gel that thing that we use to help babies. But I will buy miralax and of course I also can add pumpkin to his food. Here we dont have canned has you have but I will boil some. Thanks ❤️❤️ Wolvi sends nose kisses
@JanetNJ God I'm freaking out here my boy is 57 at +5 on freestyle Libre I gave him a can of gourmet patê he is here in bed with me sleeping and looking nice but I'm really afraid At +4 he was 63 on FSL and 105 on counter next one
@JanetNJ Don't you think that 2.2 is to much? Would I try 2U again Could you take a look at his SS... he is dropping so fast and so much. I have a tab for freestyle and the one that says 2021 is for countur next one FSL has a 10/15 minutes delay (intertisticial glucose) so I'm really afraid, that's why I had to prick him last night and the difference is around 30 between FSL and countur TY
Yes he earned a reduction. Could you slide the freestyle tab to the left? That way it will open in that one when we click the link
@JanetNJ Good afternoon could you please see Wolvi's SS... He is so low now... In 3 hours it will be shoot time. Imagine that he is around 100/150 Should I gave him the 2U? Thanks
Hi sorry I wasn't online. Good call giving the reduced dose. He also earned a reduction during the day. Keep an eye out tonight. Have some higher carb food ready to go
Hi @JanetNJ as I didn't know what to do I opened a thread on the general health forum and another lady suggest that he could have toxicity glucose and suggest to lower is dose but I didn't understood it very well. I gave him some wet (normal) food and he is here in bed with me. Yes I have HC food if is necessary He is 113 now.
you reduced too far... It should be 1.75 this morning. (1.5 if you're really nervous.) Looks like a bounce after that nice, low day yesterday.
Ohh god I'm really confused... I follow the FrostID advise because I didn't know what to do. How do you calculate that dose... I want to learn for other time if I need. Can you please read what she said on the other forum? https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dose-advise-insulin-in-1-hour.255141/ He is 321 now almost +3
If you feel more comfortable trying 1 unit for a few days that's fine. If it stays high than raise back up. Typically we reduce by 0.25.
I was reading that now: "If kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L) decrease the dose by 0.25 unit immediately" Do you to know something: I really don't know what makes more confortable because I'm confused. - If I gave him 2.2U he drops to fast and then have high numbers - if I gave him 2 he is flat around 200 - yesterday I gave 0.8 because he was low - this morning bouncing... - I'm lost my vet wants me to keep the doses more time but this time I could not do that
Well the.8 was a one time thing because of the low preshot. That wasn't really his new dose. 2 was his dose ... He was only into the 200's with it until he wasn't. Lol. I'm not surprised he's running high this morning.... Probably a bit of a bounce from going lower than he's used to yesterday. I personally wouldn't lower that much though because I wouldn't want to get him stuck in those higher numbers again.
I understand what you say and it makes sense of course - so you prefer the 1.75. Just one more doubt: I use these: https://felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm And there I have 1.4, 1.6, 1.8 what can I do? I use U100 seringes and 1.4f or 1.6f is accurate?
@JanetNJ Can you look please at Wolvi's Ss today I gave him yesterday PMPS 1.6 and today AMPS 1.6 On Countur next one: AMPS 335 +7 - 96 PMSP 428 On Freestyle libre sensor AMPS 375 + 3 - 225 +4 - 130 +5 - 81 + 6 - 58 - my husband gave him LC wet food + 7 - 51 +8 - 53 + 9 - 147 + 11 - 425 snifff bouncing again PMPS 456 Gave him 1.4 my boy is driving me crazy thanks for all help and pacience with me
@JanetNJ Hi, hope you are doing fine. Could you please take a look at Wolvi SS... (he is not using FSL since Dec 11th) Yesterday PMPS he was 125 and I sent a message to the vet that said don't give him insuline and tomorrow morning give him again 3U. AFter at +3 he was 427 in the morning he was AMPS 449 gave him 3U, +5 is 62 and + 7 is 79 . What should I do? Reduce? He is a bouncing kitten - stalling to wait for the number to rise is not an option here because at PS time he has an inside clock and goes crazy if I don't gave him food) ------ At PMPS he was 169 and I gave him 2.8 Thanks @JanetNJ
I agree about bouncing. I think he's going too low and dose is too high. Your spreadsheet says you are following SLGS, in which case you reduce by 0.25au any time you get a number under 90. I see a lot of missed reductions recently, even at the 2.8U. I'm not sure why you increased when you saw 50s. I would go down to 2.5U, but I think that may be too high. I'd only give 2.5U above 200. 150-199 I would give 1U. 120-149 I'd give maybe 0.25U. Below 120 I would skip.
You shot a nearly full dose at a pretty low number tonight please check him as soon as you can. Do.you feed anything to slow down those drops?
I see the 56 - are you aware of the significance of a number that low? That is really isn't safe to go to bed and not test him again until morning? That you should be giving him some medium carb or higher food when that happens?
@JanetNJ thoughts now? It looks like he wants to be in the blues and greens but dose is too high, and bounces. I kind of want to reset to 2U if above 175-ish?
@JanetNJ @FrostD Good morning this morning he is 517 ( bouncing for sure) I will give him 2 U and wait to see how he react Sorry i didn't wrote (sorry) but yesterday night he was 105 when i went to bed because i gave him gravy food at 56. thanks for your help
This are doses for PS? Should I keep him with 2U now for some days? Or decide according to numbers from PS or "nadirs". I use u100 seringe so for exemple 1,7 its kind of dificult to fill. I use the conversor that increases by 0.2 (not the 0,25) but I will try if necessary I'm really lost. It looks like I haven't learn anything with the first time he was a sugar boy back in 2019. Sorry
I like the 2.0 idea. It may be slightly low and will probably need to go to 2.4 but it might help to stop the high bounce we are seeing in the morning.
Oh wow and already in the greens. Looks like 2 was a good decision. May have to drop it even further.
@JanetNJ @FrostD What do you think about this for PMPS? Above 200 - 2U or less? 150-199 - 1U 120-149 - 0.25U Below 120 - skip or what?
Yes, I am saying shoot the "full dose" only if the preshot is above 200. If the preshot is 150-199, then shoot maybe a half dose. If the preshot 120-149 shoot 0.2U at most. Below 120 definitely skip. I understand with the syringes. I would actually reduce him to 1.8U since you got that 79 today; BG usually does go a little lower when breaking a bounce but I just prefer to be cautious. So 1.8U if the preshot is above 200. 150-199 then 0.8U. 120-149 then 0.2U. As always this assumes you have test strips and can keep an eye on him
Thank you so much for your advice, I will follow it ❤️ And yes I have always two boxes of strips (2x50) and I'm at home
Hi @JanetNJ This stall thing is kind of dificult here at home because I have 5 more cats and all of them have an inside clock. And now it's a quarter to PS time and feeding time and they don't leave the kitchen meowing for food Not easy ❤️❤️
@JanetNJ @FrostD At PMPS he was 167 and stalling (due what I explained previously) was not possible I gave him 0.8U Hope I did the right thing Thank you so much for your precious help
Just tell me, please, what I give in this situations: Above 200 - ???? 150-199 - ???? 120-149 - ???? Below 120 - ???? Today I will test him before bed TY
I think that was good decision. There isn't a "right" or "wrong" thing right now, were just trying to figure out a good dose that keeps him safe and you can shoot consistently. It's like the game "pin the tail on the donkey"
I understand you. But sometimes right in the moment of taking a decision I get nervous... Back in 2019 he begin like this when he was almost into remission
Wonderful! I also see the 211 - do not worry, chances are he's bouncing again from that large drop this morning. It may take him a few days to settle down
Also, this thread is getting very long. Can you please start a new one tomorrow? And put a link to this one for reference