8/12 Newman AMPS 135, stall, 138 , no shot. PMPS 381, shot 2.25., 247@ + 4

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Linda and Newman, Jul 29, 2022.

  1. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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  2. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Good morning, Linda. I hope you have a good day today and a lovely weekend as well. :) Let us know if you need anything.
     
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  3. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    This morning after his test and shot, he was stretched out on my desk, as he often is, sleeping. He got too close to the edge and in the blink of an eye, he flipped over the edge, striking the pull out keyboard shelf and landing on his side on the floor. He was definitely surprised and at first seemed dazed. I talked to him and stroked him and after a few minutes I picked him up and put him on the bed. He stayed there, loafed up, for about 15 minutes and then went to the kitchen for the second course of his breakfast. He ate and went to one of his sleeping places. Now, six hours later he has emerged. I tested him (168) and gave him a few extra Dr Elsey's. He seems subdued, but perhaps I am just looking too hard. Back now, looking out the window. He is acting more suspicious of me. I think he thinks I made him fall. lol

    I don't think he got hurt, except for the rude awakening. Poor boy. @Suzanne & Darcy
     
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  4. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Oh. I am sorry this happened to Newman. I hope he didn’t hurt his ribs and isn’t sore. I checked his spreadsheet about one o’clock and was looking for tests. I’m happy he’s in blue and that you tested and gave treats.
     
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  5. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Happy Saturday, Linda! Is Newman feeling better about life in general today? Is see he came down just a little bit in yellow at 3.5.
     
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  6. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    Hi Suzanne. I was testing when you posted here today - good timing. Just tested 170 @ +5.5.

    I would say that he is getting back to normal, after his fall from the desk. He is a little bit suspicious of me, but he will lay on the desk on his terms. He keeps a close eye on my actions, especially hand movement. Physically I don't think there is any indication of any bruising or other injury. Thank goodness.
     
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  7. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Yay for blue!
     
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  8. FrostD

    FrostD Well-Known Member

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    Quick FYI we are all down with a nasty version of hand foot and mouth so I'll be scarce
     
  9. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Will it be safe for baby?
     
  10. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Oh, and I am very sorry about this!!!
     
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  11. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    Family first! Take care and get well.
     
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  12. FrostD

    FrostD Well-Known Member

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    I asked yesterday when I took kids in, should be ok but will check with midwife tomorrow. I guess the danger is the fever in 1st tri (kids hit 104), or passing to baby while giving birth. I'm almost end of 2nd tri so should be good!
     
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  13. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug: Hope it’s okay to throw a hug your way to you and baby!
     
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  14. FrostD

    FrostD Well-Known Member

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    Always, and appreciate it!
     
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  15. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Hi Linda. I'm just stopping by to look at Newman's spreadsheet. I'm really happy to see those blues today. I wonder why he had such good numbers today (and not as good on some other days?) Whatever the reason, I'm liking it. I hope you are doing well.
     
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  16. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    I wonder from day to day as well. I was hoping that you and Melissa had the answer to that question! LOL I guess the habit of grazing could have a part in it. He probably finished his food in fewer visits to the bowl today. That would be my best guess and I have no idea if there would be any basis to that idea. In my mind, there is a fine line between attempting to change his eating habit and still avoid him throwing up if he eats too much at one time.

    Thanks for stopping and checking on us.
     
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  17. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    I think it must be food related as you say. :bighug:
     
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  18. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    @Suzanne & Darcy
    @FrostD
    Newman surprised me this morning with his fasting bg 176 so we are stalling and will test in 30 min. (7:30). May be considering a reduced dose. Delayed test results 232. Feeding as usual.
    Decided to shoot skinny 2.0

    Well, I guess the skinny 2.0 was too little, although I didn't think it was that far off the usual 2.25 he was getting. Just got 326 @ +4

    And yesterday was such a good day.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2022
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  19. FrostD

    FrostD Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. Maybe he went a little lower last night...I don't *think* reduction worthy but hard to say for sure. He doesn't usually have a late nadir with bounce breaks. He's bouncing now though!
     
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  20. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    Okay, at +11.25 his PMPS is 303. The 305 on the spreadsheet is before he was fed dinner. The 303 is 2-3/4 hours after eating so there was no bounce from food. These numbers are confusing for me. I don't know if he is still going down. Since he is barely above 300, I don't feel comfortable shooting a full 2.25 dose. Any advice? @Suzanne & Darcy @FrostD

    Twenty minutes later I retested and he is up to 360.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2022
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  21. FrostD

    FrostD Well-Known Member

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    Sorry just missed it! Yes those numbers are flat, we just want to make sure he's flat or rising l.
     
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  22. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Hello there, Linda.
    Wow. So high. I hope you shot and not too late.
     
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  23. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    I’m not liking the pink numbers. But tomorrow is another day.
     
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  24. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    I decided to shoot 2.0 units. It was about 8:30, so not too late considering we were delayed on the AM dose.

    Yep, tomorrow is another day.
     
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  25. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    Just checked him at +3.25 he is 236. He is eating a bit of his FF left from dinner. I always wake up some time during the night. I can look at him and make sure he is responsive, but extremely unlikely I would be able to test him.
     
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  26. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    I see he’s back in the pinks today. I hope that will not continue for him. Hope you and Newman and Ozzie will have a good morning.
     
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  27. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    First test this AM was at 7:15 AM, which was actually the tail end of last evening's cycle. I retested at 7:30 AM and called that his AMPS 309, took a deep breath and shot the 2.25 units.
     
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  28. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    I am trying to keep the title updated so it is easy for a quick glance. I will assume that nadir was somewhere between the tests that I got at +4.75 (174) and +9 (135) and that he is on his way back up on his own. I want to go ahead and feed him now as usual, so I can stay close to schedule.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2022
  29. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    He seems to be on the rise. That should make you feel good.
     
  30. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    I hope everything was okay
     
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  31. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    Tested and got the 135 @+9, fed dinner and held food for 2 hours. I tested after the hold and got 229 not sure what to shoot so I offered food again to be sure that he would eat and tested after 45 minutes and got 251. I am thinking I will give a reduced dose because I think the 251 is a bump up from food and I won't be monitoring overnight. Looking at the guidelines, I will shoot a fat 1.5 units.

    @FrostD
    @Suzanne & Darcy

    I welcome input. If there was something better to do, I need to learn. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2022
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  32. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    He's red this morning, but you did expect it. It's okay, with ProZinc, since there is no depot, each cycle is kind of like a new day (well... it IS a new day.. but you know what I mean). I understand your anxiety. Hopefully, he will give you a similar preshot number on a weekend or in the daytime so you can see what he will do if you shoot the whole dose. I think the whole dose would have been okay... BUT, since your ability to monitor is uncertain, I would maybe have shot only 2 units instead of 2.25... or 1.75 (well... you almost did shoot that if it was a fat 1.5... but a real 1.75.) You know, don't beat yourself up. It's a lot of trial and error here! You are doing your very best for Newman! I KNOW that! It's going to be okay! As I said, we hopefully can gather more data when he does similar things on a daytime cycle or on a weekend when hopefully you can call for assistance. :bighug::bighug::bighug: Hang in there Cat Mama!
     
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  33. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    I've been thinking the exact same thing!

    Linda, you really are doing a fantastic job! :)
     
  34. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    Thank you, Shelly

    I'm sorry, Shelley, I misspelled your name.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
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  35. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Whew! He’s back in yellow.
     
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  36. FrostD

    FrostD Well-Known Member

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    I'm liking these 130s :cool:
     
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  37. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    Got an unusual test at 3:30 AM when our house alarm went off, getting everyone out of bed, even the critters. Thank goodness - false alarm!

    Newman was on the desk top, so I got that test at 3:30 AM. He was 209 @ +7.5 on the night time cycle. Helpful?

    At regular test time this morning, he was 293. @Suzanne & Darcy @FrostD
     
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  38. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    All data is good data.

    I wonder why the alarm went off. We have glass breakage sensors as part of our alarm system and sometimes a sharp noise will set them off (luckily the sonic booms created by fighter jets flying overhead don't usually seem to set it off... which is weird. Once some loud lightning/thunder set the alarm off.

    Your PMPS cell is blank last night... was that because you'd already tested at 11.5 (makes sense to me)?
     
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  39. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    The test in the night though tells me that it looks like he would have been fine to get the 2.25 units :)
     
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  40. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    Okay, I see what you are saying, and that was probably nadir or close to it. Turns out to have been a good test to get by chance.
     
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  41. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, I was looking at the time and just noticing it was near his nadir time (which varies a bit, but that was in the zone.) So, yes, it's good data that you happened to get :) It should help with dosing decisions (but maybe not anxiety, right?) I understand that! :bighug:
     
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  42. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    Just got a blue number! A little low for my anxiety level when he probably has a couple more hours to go. He is 142 at +5.5. I will try to get more tests in.

    @Suzanne & Darcy
    @FrostD

    Hope you and your kids are feeling better, Melissa.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
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  43. FrostD

    FrostD Well-Known Member

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    We are healed! Until the next thing comes along...

    I think he's just fine. Very nice cycle.
     
  44. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    Good news in family health department! LOL

    Thanks for looking in on us. I know I have to get past my fears to push forward, and the support helps.
     
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  45. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    He’s looking great! Just remember it’s a very safe number and very far from danger. No high carb food! Lol. Oh, and I am talking about the 128 here!
     
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  46. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    PMPS 185 so I will stall for 30 minutes.

    Edit to add: Retest got 230 fed and shot 2.25. Fingers crossed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
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  47. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Was at choir but saw this. I saw you were stalling so I hoped he would at least be yellow after the stall. If you are uncomfortable with your before bed test (if you can get one) you could give him a snack and I am wondering if he can have a snack closer to his nadir (which yes, is in the middle of the night) even if he won’t allow a test and you wouldn’t have to get up and test. Even some dry treats (uh oh, a Pox upon me for saying that! But I am trying to think of what’s easy.) I am just throwing out ideas depending on what happens.
     
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  48. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Hey, you may be in luck and sleep peacefully, it looks like a possible bounce from the blue (or that pink would be a heck of a food bump!)
     
  49. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    I did get yellow (230) after the stall, so I thought it would be recommended and be safe to stay with the 2.25 dose. At any rate, at this point I feel better getting the bump or bounce after the shot and after he had eaten. Would you have suggested a reduced dose?

    It is impossible for me to leave a snack unless I separate/seclude the cats from each other. Ozzie will eat every morsel, literately swallowing dry food whole as it hits the floor. I will get another test before bed and worst case I will just have to stay up. The only dry food I have is Dr Elsey's, so being low carb, it probably wouldn't help would it? @Suzanne & Darcy
     
  50. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Well, yes Dr. Elsey’s would have helped as a low carb snack. Also, dry food can kind of “last longer” in that they can influence BG for a little longer than wet food. Also, I don’t know what flavor you have as the carbs vary a bit. My cats like the duck and the rabbit. The chicken is lowest in carbs but has become so messy and crumbly that I don’t buy it anymore.
     
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  51. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    I forgot how voracious Ozzie is. I was just thinking of giving Newman a few treats. I guess Ozzie likes Temptations treats too.
     
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  52. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Well just get that test if you can before bed. I was really just thinking of what might be done if Newman would not cooperate with testing.
     
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  53. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    I have never tried the duck or rabbit. I have the chicken and turkey and use mostly the turkey because like you mentioned, the chicken is messier.

    Ozzie will eat anything. Believe me when I say he swallows dry food whole. There is never the sound of him crunching even the hardest pieces.

    Good point that the dry food stays with them longer so it may draw out the influence. I learn something new everyday.

    I posted the last test I got at +2.5 and it is still going up. What is that?!
     
  54. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Must have been a bounce from the blue. I am wondering what his preshot will be this morning.
     
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  55. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    I see he made it easy on you this morning…. No decision making required.
     
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  56. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    Yes, and barely into the pink range.
     
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  57. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Hi. Checking in. I was hoping to see a test on Newman... but my timing is always bad. Later on...
     
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  58. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    Just now tempting him to join me on the desk. Check back. I'm working on it. lol

    Posted 151 @ +5.5
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
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  59. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Wow. He’s going to have another blue surf today.
     
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  60. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    Feeling nervous about shooting PMPS 218. I will test again in 15 minutes for my peace of mind. Is it safe to believe that he is on his way up? @Suzanne & Darcy
    @FrostD
    I hope you both are well. I have been trying to stay out of you "hair," feeling too needy.
     
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  61. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    No worries. I checked in a few times on the spreadsheet. Let me look now.
     
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  62. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    It looks like he is rising from that blue. Let me know what happens with the stall.
     
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  63. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    I retract my question. LOL
    I just retested him after 20 minutes and got 255. I will feed him and shoot the ongoing 2.25.
    Thanks for checking on us.
     
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  64. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    :)
    He’s definitely coming up! :) It’s okay. I’m glad you checked in!
     
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  65. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    This is fine… in fact, it’s good. We see how we thought he was rising and now we see that he was for sure!
     
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  66. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    I didn't recognize you at first after you changed your avatar!
     
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  67. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Lol! I’m changing things.
     
  68. FrostD

    FrostD Well-Known Member

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    Never a bother! He's looking very nice at this dose.

    That said, consider an increase. I would like to see nadirs closer to 100, and am a little "concerned" numbers are creeping up on you a bit (very normal).

    You've got a lot of different factors to weigh, so of course absolutely no pressure at all. For consistency's sake, you might want to define your own criteria for an increase. Such as, if you haven't seen anything under 150 for X number of days, or whatever number you're comfortable with.
     
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  69. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    The thought of an increase has crossed my mind. I know there is a question or two in doing that. Let me think about it tomorrow and organize my thoughts. I'd like to get back to you.
     
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  70. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    New game this morning. AMPS 135, stalled 25 minutes to retest, got 138. I will feed and skip shot this morning.
    @Suzanne & Darcy
    @FrostD
     
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  71. FrostD

    FrostD Well-Known Member

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    Well I think he answered the increase question! I don't think he went too low last night, as he seems to stay pretty flat when he starts lower. Im hesitant to say reduce because I think you'd lose a little.progress, but again it's up to you to weigh everything and determine what is best for the two of you.
     
  72. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    You skipped? I wish you had shot something. Even half a dose. But with ProZinc every cycle is a new cycle so...
     
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  73. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    Would I be right in assuming that I go back to the usual evening routine? Feed, wait 2 hours to test and then shoot somewhat based on that number? @FrostD @Suzanne & Darcy

    Edit to add:
    Melissa, I see that you had already addressed this in an earlier post. I was reviewing and reading this thread.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2022
  74. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Aack! A pink. This is why I would have preferred a reduced dose this morning to no shot at all. But it’s data and all data in this case is good data. I would not change anything at this point and I believe Melissa was in agreement with that. He should be ready for the 2.25 units tonight.
     
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  75. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    I do hear you and for me, in hindsight, I should have given him some dose of insulin. Again, I was looking at the SLGS guidance and since he was still below 150 after stalling, it directs no insulin. Since he was so close to the 150-200 range at 138 and considering his reaction to no insulin, a token dose of 10-25% of the usual dose per the guideline would have been a safe choice. I figure that would have been .25 - .50 units. Am I figuring that right?

    I'm first to admit that I'm not good at these judgement calls. That's why I keep going back to the "book." I hope that I can improve and feel more confident as obviously I see these numbers will always fluctuate. @Suzanne & Darcy
     
  76. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    I am sure he would have been fine with 1 unit. The guidelines are good - but as you gather data on your own cat, you can infer from what you know of past experience to make decisions more suited to Newman. No stress though. It’s good data to help with future decisions. ❤️ Okay?
     
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  77. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Having said that, if you had given only.25 or .5 units — as long as you tried to gather data to see what happens, it would not be a total waste of time.
     
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  78. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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    Yes, I should have given some amount of insulin, even .5 units. I will make a note of that for next time.

    And thanks for your kind words.
     
  79. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Linda, you are doing great. Seriously. It takes time. I doubt I would do as well as you in the same circumstances. I am just glad we are around for you to bounce things off of, but you are calling the shots.
     
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  80. Linda and Newman

    Linda and Newman Member

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