Footfoot's BG and dosing, continued

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by HelenR, Nov 3, 2022.

  1. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    Footfoot tested at 19.6 (353) for her PMPS reading, and I gave her 1.25U as recommended. She seems fine (though wouldn't be induced to play with string just now... but sometimes she's not in the mood).
    @FrostD @Shelley & Jess
     
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  2. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    BG is 13.2 (238) at +6.
    My dilemma now is that I'm going out tonight (my first night out since she was diagnosed, so I'd hate to miss it) and my husband was going to do her injection, but he can't do the blood testing. Should he go ahead and give her 1.25U? I'll be able to test her when I get back, at about +2, to see how she's doing.
    Or, skip the shot? What would you do? She isn't quite herself today, either; she didn't pester for food at breakfast time, then slept through till we came back from an excursion, 6 hours later, when she was quietly, patiently waiting to be fed, but not excited as she normally is, way before 6 hours from breakfast. :-/
    @FrostD , @Shelley & Jess
     
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  3. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    Hi, anyone there? I'm a bit clueless as to what to do this evening - shot or no shot? :-/
     
  4. FrostD

    FrostD Well-Known Member

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    Still bouncing but coming down. If you don't want to risk it, half dose of 0.5-0.75U is fine! Sorry I'm quite a few hours behind you I think.
     
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  5. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    Thanks Melissa! Yep, we're on opposite sides of the Atlantic so there's a considerable time gap :)
    Actually I had my husband give her a 1.25U shot. Tested after I got home, at +3, and she was at 4.4 (79). I know that's pretty low, but then I just fed her, so that should rise, yes? And she also gets another meal from the automatic feeder, which is available in about an hour. So that ought to keep her BG from crashing any further?
     
  6. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    Not necessarily. With the recent transition removing all dry we don't have a clear picture of what LC wet does for her when in lower numbers yet and +3 was still pretty early in her cycle too - can make a big difference what to feed (LC, MC, HC) depending where you are in the cycle. Next time you get a lower number like that, especially early in the cycle, feed and test again in 1/2 hour to make sure she flattens out or slows down.

    Did you give 1.5U this morning or was that a typo? Following MPM you would hold the dose (assuming she didn't drop below 50) or Melissa suggested following SLGS last week and that 79 would have earned her a reduction - not sure what method you're following now.

    (Sorry I've been scarce, my schedule has been a mess lately :()
     
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  7. FrostD

    FrostD Well-Known Member

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    Just adding that the method depends on whether or not dry food is still in the picture. If it is, then SLGS. If it isn't, you have the option for MPM. Signature says MPM but also still has dry food listed
     
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  8. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    I will - thanks. I'm very confused at the moment about what I'm supposed to be doing - I'm exhausted and not thinking very well! :-/
     
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  9. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    I did give 1.5U, as her reading was up high again - but I guess I should just hold my nerve and stick to 1.25?
    I must re-read the descriptions of the methods again as I've never quite managed to internalise how it all works. I'm not feeling very intelligent lately. All my brain power has got sucked up by the learning curve of my new job - the rest of the time, I'm a zombie :-o
     
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  10. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    Oops - have corrected the signature. The dry food is gone from her diet now, although it's one of the high carb foods still available if she has a hypo crisis. Unless you think I should avoid dry food altogether?
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2022
  11. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    The last dry food was on October 24th.
     
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  12. FrostD

    FrostD Well-Known Member

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    It's ok to have on hand, but wet high carb is better from the standpoint of it acts more quickly to raise BG and also leaves the system more quickly.

    Yes, hold the 1.25U ;) Keep an eye, mostly because when they break bounces it's extra downward momentum...combined with higher dose could be another low BG situation.
     
  13. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    OK, I'll do that. Thanks so much, Melissa. Unfortunately we have to go 8 hours at a time without BG testing, when I go out to work in the day, but I have told my husband what hypo looks like and what to do. It was so much easier before I started this new job! :-/
    I'm working 3 or 4 days per week so at least on the others, I'm around to test.
    I really appreciate you, @FrostD and @Shelley & Jess, holding my hand through all of this mayhem!
     
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  14. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    Her BG this morning was 11.9 (214), so I decided on no shot, as I have to be out all day at work. If I was going to be here, I might have given her a .75U shot, and keep a close eye on her BGs. Would that have been the right call?
    As it is, no shot seemed the best option.
    I knew this was going to get more complex once I started this job, I hate that I can't be here to monitor things!
     
  15. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    Do you have time in the morning on the days you work to stall without feeding for 20 minutes to see if she's on the rise? Better yet, having the time to stall twice if needed, then make the shoot/no shot decision.
     
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  16. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    Actually, yes, I could do that! At least some of the time. Sometimes I have timed appointments to get to, but other days it's flexible. I will do that next time, if I am able. Thanks @Shelley & Jess
     
  17. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    If she was rising, but still low, would I give the 1.25U? Or a smaller dose?
     
  18. FrostD

    FrostD Well-Known Member

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    I think you are good to shoot the 1.25U for any preshot above 200. Below that we'll have to work on and see what's safe.
     
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  19. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    This morning she was at 9.6 (173), then 20 minutes later at 10.4 (187) - so, on the basis that she was rising, I gave her 0.75U. Do you think this was OK?
    She's bouncing like crazy. Oh gosh, it's a bit of a nightmare. Tomorrow I have to leave for work right after giving her breakfast and her morning injection - we'll have to start a little early as it is, I won't have time to wait and do a second reading, I'll have to make a decision based on her first result. :-/
     
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  20. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    +4, she's at 5.2. (94) - I just fed her, but now I'm now going out for 6 to 8 hours, husband will watch her but can't do any testing. :-/
     
  21. FrostD

    FrostD Well-Known Member

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    Yes good call! And 94 at +4 is perfect I wouldn't worry, that should be about nadir for her normal cycle (she may drop a little more but shouldn't be hypo-level...)
     
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  22. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    Thanks Melissa!
     
  23. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    She’s really been high the last few days (bouncing). I hope she breaks it soon (before starting another one :blackeye: ) Keep up the good work with Footfoot. I hope your new job is going well.
     
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  24. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    Thanks Suzanne. Yes, the new job is going OK but it's a super-steep learning curve and I am just exhausted, which is why there aren't many tests after her evening shot :-/
    What do you make of her readings, @FrostD and @Shelley & Jess ? I don't know what to make of this high bounce. What worries me is that we have a couple of days later this month - the 23rd and 24th - when I have to go away for 2 days for a work briefing. (This is what I was meant to do last month, but couldn't, as I was ill). My husband will have to do her shots for those 2 days, but he can't do the testing, it's way beyond what he can manage due to his disabilities. My main fear is that she'll have one of those sudden lows and then the shot will put her into dangerous hypo territory.
     
  25. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    By the way, I've stopped the Fortekor for her heart (atrial hypertrophy) - it seems there is no evidence suggesting that it actually works.
    https://www.veterinarypracticenews.com/ace-inhibitors-march-2020/
    I'm really worried about her heart just now - her breathing has been quite fast, I've been giving her furosemide, which helps (it's a diuretic which reduces the fluid building up around the lungs). But if it gets much worse, the diabetes will become her lesser problem. I don't want her to suffer a long decline and gradually suffocate - if the breathing gets bad, and the furosemide doesn't help enough, I think I would have a vet come to the house, for her to be PTS. All they can do besides furosemide is take her into the vet hospital and remove fluid with a needle from her lung sacs. This would be hideous for her, she hates, HATES going to the vet. I also don't have the money for hospitalisations, but more than that, I just don't want to inflict it on her, when the inevitable course of it would be decline, and more procedures, more often, till she dies.
    I really hope the furosemide will be sufficient for some time yet. She's here on my shoulder, pointedly purring (her subtle request for a late night supper)... so she is doing well right now. <3
     
  26. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Can you have the vet put on a Libre sensor while you are away? To monitor BG…
     
  27. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Okay, let’s talk heart disease. My cat Ginger has atrial enlargement and her heart doesn’t contract very well as a result. She has had two pleural effusions and had the fluid removed via thoracocentesis. We put her on Pimobendan and it has been a game changer for her. Before Pimobendan she had a very high respiratory rate. Afterwards, she stays around 20 breaths per minute, which is excellent Currently, she is on Lasix (to keep the fluid off), Pimobendan (which makes her heart contract), Clopidogrel (Plavix, to prevent clots that can break loose and travel throughout the body.). She had been on Benazepril, which is also an ACE Inhibitor. After our visit to a Vet Cardiac Specialist at Blue Pearl in Atlanta, that vet told us to stop the Benazepril because she said it was only useful of the cat has heart arrhythmias, which Ginger currently does not. More later. Let us know how it’s going. My husband is currently getting very irritated with me because he has waited until the last minute of the last day to sign up for benefits! Got to go!
     
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  28. FrostD

    FrostD Well-Known Member

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    I would go ahead with an increase. I suspect some of what you're seeing may be heart related...BG patterns start to get really strange once other things in the body get out of balance.

    I know next to nothing about heart issues but it looks like Suzanne gave you a bunch of good info. We will always prioritize the more immediately pressing issue; the diabetes you just do your best with because at some point the compounding issues put so much outside of your control.
     
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  29. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    Thanks very much, Suzanne! Footfoot is on Clopidogrel - I'll ask about Pimobendan. I just looked it up, Fortekor is a brand name for Benazepril - though in our case, it was me that informed the vet that it is not useful, rather than the other way round! (I did a bit of reading). I like this vet at the practice, though - he was very receptive to the info I sent him and he was also very enthusiastic about the spreadsheet :)
    I will need to see him or talk to him this week to get some more furosemide (Lasix), so will ask about Pimobendan.
    I'm also looking into a Libre sensor.
     
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  30. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Without the Pimobendan, Ginger just kept ending up back with more fluid around her lungs since her heart just didn't pump well. Your vet sounds very good. A lot of the cardiologists are using Pimobendan (Vetmedin) in cats now. On some of the cat heart FB groups that I am on, most of the cats are on that drug.
     
  31. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    Oh boy, she's bouncing all over. Tonight she started to drop quite fast, so at PMPS +4, I've just given her some hi-carb snacks. I hope that's going to level her out :-/
     
  32. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    I didn't manage to speak to the vet today, he was supposed to call me but never did. I'm hoping he'll a) prescribe more Furosemide, and b) prescribe some Pimobendan, without me having to take her into the practice, because that is so stressful for her. Don't know if they'll agree to that, though. Will have to chase him tomorrow.
     
  33. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    I was considering a Freestyle Libre for next week - but don't you need a smartphone to read them with? My husband doesn't have one. Or we could buy a scanner? But money is really tight... ugh.
     
  34. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    I am concerned about where she went after that 137 - as in, what caused her to go so high that she’s in the black! How low did she go?
     
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  35. FrostD

    FrostD Well-Known Member

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    Black?? Footfoot no!

    I wonder too.

    Unfortunately I don't know about the libre
     
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  36. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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  37. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    Thanks so much! I might have to get a Libre and also a second-hand phone for my husband to scan it with; he does need a new phone anyway. Will take that list into town later and see if I can strike lucky in any of the 'cash converter' shops.
    Meanwhile: this morning she's sky-high and isn't herself, either. She didn't follow me downstairs to get her breakfast, for perhaps the first time ever. After I tested her blood, she did decide she was hungry (maybe a Pavlovian prompt, as she always gets fed after I test her BG). Her breathing is OK, but she isn't quite right.
    Yesterday I couldn't test in the daytime as I was out working - today I'm mostly at home, so I can keep an eye on BG levels.
     
  38. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    I've just spoken to the vet, unfortunately pimobendan is not great for cats with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, so he says. It can make things worse, even... so it doesn't seem that's an option for us.
    I'm really worried about her today - she has regained her appetite but she just doesn't seem right. She has that slightly bedraggled look they get when they're off. :-/
     
  39. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    I am sorry to hear this. My Ginger has Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy. She has done unbelievably well on the Pimobendan. The Cardiologist at the Blue Pearl Specialty Hospital was very pleased with her progress after being put on the Pimobendan twice a day. The only things the cardio vet did was to discontinue the Benazepril that she had been put on by the primary vet and to discontinue the Spirononlactone (because with the Lasix she does not need it -- it's a weak diuretic and was "just another pill to take."

    I do know that my primary vet said that, from her perspective, it hadn't been used in cats all that long. However, she noted that a lot of the cardio vets (at University of Georgia teaching hospital) were using it in cats now. Frankly, Ginger was in such bad shape at the time and, after her second pleural effusion we felt we had no choice but to either let her die or try the Pimobendan. My regular vet was already giving me "the talk" about how we "can't keep pulling fluid off of her chest every week" and that, if she didn't improve, I would have to "make a hard decision." That's when I also got the appointment for the Cardiologist set up ASAP. I was lucky to get this appointment so quickly (September 15) as there was a cancellation. I just wanted to make sure that I was doing everything right for Ginger and that we were on the right track with the medications. So, I think a lot of the regular GP vets haven't quite caught up with what the Cardiologists are doing in cats. That's just my take on it, of course. Then again, I'm in the U.S. and not in the U.K. There are some differences in the way that veterinary medicine is practiced. For example, I know that most people in the U.S. with cats who have kidney disease do their own subcutaneous fluids at home. I believe in the U.K. this is very uncommon to find a vet who will let you do this at home. I'm on another group for cats with kidney disease and this seems to be the case.

    I'm really hoping for your Footfoot to do well!
     
  40. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    Thanks so much for all that. I will discuss it with the vet.
    I know someone who does give her cat subcutaneous fluids at home, here in the UK, though oddly enough, she's American!
     
  41. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    It's been mentioned to me elsewhere that she may not have hypertrophic cardiomyopathy - she was diagnosed initially with a heart murmur, which has stayed at '4' on the listening test, ever since. H.C. may be an assumption by the vet rather than a firm diagnosis; I may need a scan so we can find out.
     
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  42. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    She's determinedly in the pink zone, this past few days. Her Prozinc was opened on Sept 10th; might it be losing efficacy? It doesn't have bits in it, looks the same as it always did. I keep it in the same part of the fridge all the time. It has got left out on the counter a few times for an hour or so.
     
  43. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to see those pinks. That's not too long for a ProZinc bottle... it should be in good shape if it's clear as you describe. I see you did a reduction down to 1.25 for two days. I don't see any testing for those days so maybe that's why you reduced? This may have caused some problems for her, but she's been back on the 1.5 dose now for six cycles or so now. If it were my kitty, I would hold that 1.5 a few more cycles and also get night time tests so I can see what is going on at night (that could be impacting the daytime if low) before considering a .25 increase. Is anything else going on with Footfoot that might be driving her numbers up?
     
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  44. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    Thanks Suzanne. The 1.25U and no testing, was while I was away for work; my husband gave the shots but he can't do the testing, so we reduced to be on the safe side.
    She's mostly fine, though we've had to give her furosemide here and there for some slightly laboured breathing - not terrible, but not great. She's a little below par, I'd say - almost her normal self but just not quite.
    I'll try to get some night tests in, but things are pretty strained at the moment as we are preparing to move house, sooner than intended thanks to pressure from our buyer, all while I'm working on my new job that I started last month, with deadlines... I will be SO glad when the house move is over! Though, we then begin renovation of the house, working around ourselves, so it will be another kind of chaos. That's another reason I'm trying to rehome Footfoot; she's going to hate all of that. :-/
     
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  45. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    I understand. It does sound like you have a lot of stressful stuff going on. I understand. And it was wise to do a temporary reduction if you weren't able to test. I am sure that Footfoot's BG will be increased with all of the stress. My cat Ginger does take Lasix twice a day to keep fluid off of her lungs. So far, it has worked (paws crossed.)
     
  46. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    Her BG readings are a little lower today, I'm glad to say.
    @Suzanne & Darcy, do you give Lasix continuously? I'm not sure if I should take that approach with Footfoot, or just give her furosemide when she shows symptoms. The vet suggested the latter but he didn't discuss a more prophylactic method, and I wonder if that's the way to go?
     
  47. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    I do give Lasix twice a day. I would be afraid to stop now as it has kept the fluid from returning to her lungs. The cardiologist said to continue with it. However, the downside of Lasix is that it is hard on the kidneys so you have to consider that as well. Perhaps your vet is trying to spare her kidneys.
     
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  48. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    I think you're right that it's time for a .25 increase - she's getting higher again. I haven't been able to do any overnight testing, due to exhaustion. Today I completed the purchase of my new house; but also, my buyer suddenly dropped her offer below what I can accept.. so the stress continues! Ugh. We might at least have a reprieve for our moving date... meanwhile I'm desperately trying to find a new home for Footfoot but with no success so far - not surprisingly. :-/
     
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  49. FrostD

    FrostD Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry, that's a lot to deal with! Real estate is so tricky right now with the prices so in flux, appraisals aren't matching offers, loans held up because.of it, etc
     
  50. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    Real estate is a MESS in the UK right now, our idiot last Prime Minister (Liz Truss, who had the shortest ever term of a British PM, due to the chaos she caused) and her chums managed to wreck the housing market overnight. While I was in the midst of a purchase and sale. Thanks guys! :D So I'm basically caught up in the national meltdown...
    We'll survive! But it adds another chapter to the stress saga...
     
  51. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    Hey, congratulations on the human baby! <3 Xxx
     
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  52. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry about your buyer and her offer. So that means the deal is off and you will have to find another buyer (unless this person increases their offer). Now, having said that... congratulations on the new house. Maybe it will all work out with a delayed moving date. I hope everything will come together for you soon.

    I hope the increase will help Footfoot! Hang in there!
     
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  53. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    Thanks Suzanne! I increased Footfoot's insulin to 1.75U this morning. And thanks for congrats on new house - I'm delighted that part is done, anyway. Thanks to an interim loan from my lovely Dad, I don't have to panic about the sale falling through, for the moment, we have a few months leeway - thank goodness! Otherwise it would be an enormous disaster...
     
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  54. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    Oh gosh, she's bouncing. A reading of 5 this morning (90mg/dL). That's a little alarming...
     
  55. FrostD

    FrostD Well-Known Member

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    Good call skipping the shot.

    As for a reduction, that's up to you. I couldn't tell you how low she may have gone last night...it may have been low enough for a reduction, or it may have been a late nadir from breaking the bounce.
     
  56. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    30.9 (556) today at AM+10 :-/ I'm going to test for ketones this evening as well as BG.
     
  57. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    What a bounce! But at least I see a pink now so I hope he’s out of the blacks.
     
  58. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    Yes, thank goodness! The 33 (594) PMPS is approximate, as my GlucoNavii actually read 'Hi', which means 33 or over! I've only seen that a couple of times. I tested ketones: 1.4 - that's not great, is it?
    Her breathing has not been great today so I've been giving her furosemide at 4hr intervals. Will set my alarm for 3.30am to give her another in the night. Unfortunately I have a challenging day tomorrow where I'll be out most of the day. My husband can at least keep an eye on her, look out for hypos, and give her furosemide if needed.
    :-/
     
  59. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    1.4 isn’t great, no. But it should come down with her BG.
     
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  60. FrostD

    FrostD Well-Known Member

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    As far as ketones - nothing more you can do with insulin, just making sure she's getting enough water and food. Sorry about the breathing :(
     
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  61. HelenR

    HelenR Member

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    Should I be raising the Prozinc dose, do you think? Her BG is so high lately :-/ @FrostD @Suzanne & Darcy. Sorry about the shortage of readings, I've been juggling my new job and having just bought a new house which needs a fair bit of work before we can move in, which my husband can't help with, due to his disabilities. So I've been out in the daytimes, for the most part.
     
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  62. FrostD

    FrostD Well-Known Member

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    Let's see what she does tonight/tomorrow ...it looks like she was bouncing pretty hard and today may have cleared it. Given that 90 at this dose I'm a little hesitant to say increase...I'm guessing she may bounce again. It may line up that she comes down on Saturday/Sunday, do you think you'll be able to get some extra ones in the?
     
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  63. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    I do hope there are signs that she’s cleared the bounce. I hate seeing those high numbers on her spreadsheet, but the picture is so incomplete right now. We really don’t know what she’s been doing or what she may have been bouncing from?
     
  64. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Any time this weekend to get a few extra tests in? I think on Saturday you are out, but Sunday? Maybe?
     
  65. HelenR

    HelenR Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2022
    I hope to get more readings, yes - weekends are also work days for me, potentially, it all depends on work flow and appointments.
     
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  66. HelenR

    HelenR Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2022
    Footfoot died this morning, just now, 6am. It was her heart, she suddenly took a turn at about 3.30 this morning - I got several doses of furosemide into her, as directed by the overnight phone vet, but it didn't work. I feel absolutely terrible that I couldn't do more for her. In a state of shock right now.
     
  67. HelenR

    HelenR Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2022
    She probably had a UTI, didn't she? I'm so stupified by stress just lately that I forgot that high BG could be caused by infection or conversely that it increases risk of UTIs. I feel so guilty. I feel so terrible that I let her down. I tried SO hard to deal with her heart disease and diabetes but in the end I was over-stressed and thinking poorly. (We bought a house last Tuesday, the sale of my own house fell through the same day, my disabled husband can't help with any of it, and I'm desperately trying to keep up with deadlines for my new job). I just wish I could have given her an easier end, I should have done so earlier in the week when the writing was probably on the cards if I'd been paying enough attention. The furosemide seemed to be working - until this morning.
     
  68. FrostD

    FrostD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2020
    Oh no I am so sorry :bighug:

    Please do not beat yourself up. I doubt she had a UTI, and even if she did it would have had minimal bearing on everything. Unfortunately when the heart starts to go, there's only so much you can do.

    She knew she was and is loved, and that is the most important thing :bighug:
     
  69. HelenR

    HelenR Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2022
    I just feel so awful and so guilty that I couldn't make her last hours less dreadful. I don't think taking her to the vet would have been a whole lot better - it would have been over quicker, but she'd have had the terror of that trip to the vet's, while completely helpless, and on a very cold night. What I really regret most is that I didn't have her euthanised earlier in the week, realising that the furosemide was not helping her enough. Also maybe if I had talked the vet into trying pimobendan, maybe she would still be here now. He said it went against his clinical judgement, I meant to try a different vet, but hadn't had time, with all the chaos going on. Hard to forgive myself for that, too.
     
  70. Chrispooky12

    Chrispooky12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2021
    So sorry for your loss. Please don't blame yourself & think of the what ifs. You gave Footfoot an amazing loving life & did everything you could for your beautiful girl. My thoughts & prayers are with you :rb_icon::bighug:
     
  71. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Helen, I replied on your other thread. Just now seeing these two posts. I'm so sorry.
     
  72. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Oh Helen I'm also just seeing this now, I replied on your other thread :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     

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