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Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Helga Gamp, Jan 19, 2023.

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  1. Helga Gamp

    Helga Gamp Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2023
    Hi thanks for accepting me. My 13-year-old rescued cat Ike has recently been diagnosed. He is on Lantus. Three days after his insulin was increased to 2u he had a hypo 2.3 pre-shot. That was 2 days ago. I skipped the insulin that morning and then reduced it to 1.5 u, even though the vet did not agree to the reduction! His BG numbers are still high, 21 this evening pre-shot.
    No questions at the moment... Will need my son's help to figure out how to set up the sheet. Just recording his BG numbers on a sheet of paper at the moment.
     
  2. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Welcome!

    a hypo is scary and hood job on lowering the dose! Are you home testing now or using the libre? After a hypo or a low bg, cats will often get higher numbers, it’s a way of their bodies to protect themselves and it’s called bouncing so it’s pretty normal.

    Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help.

    what food are you feeding him now?
     
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  3. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Tagging Bhooma to set up your spreadsheet , look for her message in your inbox up top
    @Bandit's Mom
    Thank you Bhooma
     
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  4. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    The sooner you fill out your signature the better , tap on the link Ale gave you above, I also asked Bhooma to contact you to set up your spreadsheet
    @Helga Gamp

    Spreadsheet

    We also use a spreadsheet to track our cats BG so we know how the insulin is working and how low they are dropping so we know when to either increase or decrease the dose
    We do this by following one of the dosing methods for lantus
    We adjust the dose by 0.25 units at a time . We don't adjust the dose by going by the Pre Shots

    About the spreadsheet
    AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

    Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave
    +1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
    +2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
    +3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

    +1 same as you do for AM cycle

    We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers
    I'll give you the link to set it up , if you have trouble just ask and we have a member who will gladly do it for you


    You can look at any members spreadsheet to see what it looks like, it's at the end of everyone's signature just tap on it


    Please read all the yellow stickys about lantus here
    https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/
     
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  5. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2019
    Hi Helga and welcome to FDMB! :)
    I can help set up your spreadsheet and signature. Will send you a PM with the details I need. Look for it in the Inbox at the top right corner of this page.
     
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  6. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Hi Helga and welcome to the forum. What a gorgeous kitty….what is his name?
    Lantus is a very good insulin for cats.
    I’m very glad you are home testing the blood glucose and well done reducing the dose. I can’t imagine why the vet would not agree with a reduction. It was certainly needed with a BG of 2.3 pre shot.
    Here is an explanation about bouncing. It is very common in newly diagnosed cats so don’t be concerned.
    From the Basics on the Lantus page
    1. Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
    Ask as many questions as you like. This is a very supportive and knowledgeable forum and everyone is happy to help.
     
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  7. Helga Gamp

    Helga Gamp Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2023
    Thanks
    Thanks, his name is Ike. Yup must be the bouncing.... This morning pre-shot was lower at 16.
     
  8. Helga Gamp

    Helga Gamp Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2023
     
  9. Helga Gamp

    Helga Gamp Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2023
    His name is Ike. Yes must have been the bouncing . This morning it was lower at at 16 plus.
     
  10. Helga Gamp

    Helga Gamp Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2023
     
  11. Helga Gamp

    Helga Gamp Member

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  12. Helga Gamp

    Helga Gamp Member

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    Jan 17, 2023
    Thanks! Will try to do the signature and setup if the spreadsheet
     
  13. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    @Helga Gamp
    I see you have your signature and spreadsheet set up
    I noticed you are shooting 1 units at night and 2 in the day
    Lantus likes consistency
    You must be filling in the rest of your spreadsheet up to 1-19?
     
  14. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Well done getting the spreadsheet and signature set up. And adding data to the SS.
    Helga, are you able to get a test in each Pm cycle as well as the am cycles?
    Lantus dosing is based on the nadir, or lowest point t in the cycle…so you can see why it is important to test during each of the cycles if at all possible.
    Do you have a hypo kit set up. I will give you a link to it.
    HYPO KIT
     
  15. Helga Gamp

    Helga Gamp Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2023
    Ok will do a mid cycle test am and pm. For hypo I have honey and FF gravy lovers
     
  16. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    @Helga Gamp
    Hi you need to add Lantus to your signature please
    Do you know what dosing method you want to follow for lantus?
    Please read them and when you decide you need to add that to your signature and spreadsheet
    I just saw you are feeding some dry so you will have to follow SLGS
    Here is the link for you to read about lantus

    https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/

    I noticed you were shooting 1 units at night and 2 in the day
    Lantus likes consistency
    You need to stay with the same dose for both cycles for 7 days and then do a curve, unless he drops under 90 you immediately decrease the dose by 0.25 units
    We don't adjust doses by full or half units ,we adjust by 0.25 units at a time

    When you got that 41 BG you should have reduced to 1.75 not 1.5 units
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2023
  17. Helga Gamp

    Helga Gamp Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2023
    I don't think I can clearly see 1/4 doses that's why I changed to 1.5u. Even that is hard to get it exactly between the 2 lines!
     
  18. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Yes it can be hard to see, Do you have the U-100 syringes with the half unit markings
    @Helga Gamp

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Fantastic!
     
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  20. Helga Gamp

    Helga Gamp Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2023
    Nope, I don't think I can get them here in Singapore....
     
  21. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    What syringes are you using at the moment Helga?
     
  22. Helga Gamp

    Helga Gamp Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2023
    I was given one and a half boxes of TERUMO U-100. These are for 50 units and are quite long. I am using them up but I also bought some BD ultra-fine which are for 30 units and a bit easier to see.
     
  23. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    @Bron and Sheba (GA)
     
  24. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Did the 30 unit syringes you bought have ½ unit markings? You can get 30 unit syringes that have ½ unit markings. ½ unit markings make it easier to estimate ¼ unit doses.
     
  25. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    You might want to check with a pharmacist or look online for syringes. You want U-100 3/10cc syringes with half unit markings and BD does make them and should be widely available.
     
  26. Helga Gamp

    Helga Gamp Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2023
    I asked at a few pharmacies... 1/2 unit markings seem not available here in Singapore
     
  27. Helga Gamp

    Helga Gamp Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2023
    I guess humans don't need 1/2u markings and maybe that's why they are not available at pharmacies here in Singapore. I can try online or get my daughter to send or bring them from Canada....
     
  28. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    The ½ unit marked U100 syringes are for little humans, that is kids.
     
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