Low numbers

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by 8catsplus2, Aug 21, 2020.

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  1. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    Still a newbie here...Lucy's #'s have never been this low.. can I get some feedback.. Please check out her spreadsheet
    Thanks
     
  2. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    Hi Amber,

    I'm going to tag @Deb & Wink as I believe she has experience using Prozinc - I'm not familiar with that kind of insulin.

    Are you concerned that Lucy may go too low tonight or just have a general question about lower numbers?
     
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  3. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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  4. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    Afraid that she may go to low tonight.. but would like more information on low #'s in case this happens again
     
  5. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    Ok. A couple of questions for you

    1. Do you have MC and HC food along with karo syrup in your hypo kit?
    2. Are you able to stay up and monitor Lucy tonight?
    3. Looking at your spread sheet, why did you reduce to 1u on Aug. 19 but increased to 1.25 tonight?

    I'm also going to tag @Wendy&Neko to see if they are on the forum as I will be heading to bed shortly.
     
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  6. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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  7. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    BTW I love Lucy's avatar 'cheeky' photo with her sticking her tongue out! lol
     
  8. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    What is MC AND HC.. I Do have a high calorie Fancy feast with gravy. I can stay up and monitor She sleeps right next to me. Bad advice from somebody. How often should I test her
     
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  9. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    MC is medium carb food and HC is high carb food. Is the Fancy Feast called Gravy lovers?
     
  10. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    Here are a couple of links that you can refer to for treating hypos. You aren't at that point but it's very good information to have printed out and become familiar with incase you run into that situation and no one is on the forum who can help when you need it.

    https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

    https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jojo-and-bunnys-hypo-tool-box.2354/ is the link for the 'hypo' toolkit. Very good advice to have it ready just in case but hope to never have to use it.
     
  11. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    Yes it is I also have friskies beef and gravy mighty bits. And friskies tasty treasures prime fillets. I also have simply kitty which is mixed grill dinner pate is a medium-sized can 13 Oz and chicken and tuna dinner pate 22 oz can
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
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  12. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    Ok. Here is the link to the food database. What I do for my hypo kit is to write on the can the number of carbs the food contains. When in a panic, it's handy to have it visible, so one doesn't have to go hunting for the information. Here is the link to the food database incase you don't have it. https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php

    Medium carb is 10-17 % carbohydrate
    High Carb is 18% and over.

    So when I look at the food data base, the Gravy lovers carb count depends on the flavour. It's either MC or HC.

    When was the last time that Lucy ate?
     
  13. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    She ate at 7 pm I usually feed here again at 1am .. it's almost 12:30 am here in California
     
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  14. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    The 107 was 7:00 pm then?
     
  15. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    I just tested her she is at 84
     
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  16. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    ok. She is still dropping then. She is still in safe numbers though.
    Enter the 84 on the spreadsheet and enter any other tests that you took that aren't already on the SS.

    If the test doesn't land right on the hour, you can enter it in your SS like this and then just manually colour it in using the paintbrush icon.
    upload_2020-8-21_1-37-4.png
     
  17. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    No 108 at 7pm / 9pm was 159 /
    11 pm was107 / @ 11:30 it was 95 and just now it was 84
     
  18. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    just re-asking this question so I understand a bit better Lucy's history

    3. Looking at your spread sheet, why did you reduce to 1u on Aug. 19 but increased to 1.25 tonight?
     
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  19. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    The
    So that's how you do the color in the + column
     
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  20. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    So that's how you do the color in the + column
     
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  21. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    If you enter anything other than a number in the column, you have to manually enter the colour. with the paint can icon.

    upload_2020-8-21_1-45-3.png
     
  22. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    Put that +4 as green since you got a 95.
     
  23. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    I'm watching you enter in the SS. lol Put the +5 as green too. The guide is at the top of the SS.

    upload_2020-8-21_1-51-11.png
     
  24. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    I did 2 see if I did them right
     
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  25. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    Are you close to snack time for her?
     
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  26. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    Yes in 10 minutes what do u think I should give her I'm going to retest first
     
  27. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    upload_2020-8-21_1-53-17.png

    instead of the 11.5, you'll want to put @+4.5 because it's better to report the amount of time that has passed since giving the insulin.

    Instead of 12:30 you can put 5.5
     
  28. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    Yup - SS looks good. Get a test and see where she's at.
     
  29. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    Change it I will do the passed ones tomorrow
     
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  30. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    81
     
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  31. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    A little bit lower but that could be meter variance as well. Is she a good eater? You don't want to fill her up now in case her numbers dive but I think giving her some of her regular LC food like you would normally do at this time would be fine. It's nice to have them spend some time in the green zone.
     
  32. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    No She is not a good eater. But every time I go to poker she's looking at me like why aren't you feeding me. So I'm going to feed her regular food now. And test her again when do you think
     
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  33. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    The food will take 15-20 minutes to increase her numbers, so if you test in 1 hour it will be food influenced and her numbers should go up.
     
  34. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    I usually blend up two cans of friskies Pate with about 3/4 a can of water. Then I weigh it out and she usually eats at this time of night maybe 1 oz
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
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  35. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    Just make a note in the comment section of your SS so you can refer back to what you did tonight.
     
  36. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    From the Prozinc sticky: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-the-prozinc-basics-please-start-here.164995/
    "All insulins are prescribed to supplement an insulin deficiency in a diabetic cat. There are several types of insulin that work differently. PZ is a cat-specific insulin that many people have used with great success.
    • PZ is an “in and out” insulin, however, it is possible for one cycle to affect the next. This means that the insulin does not build up in the system and stay there. “Onset” is when the insulin starts working, usually between 2 to 3 hours after the shot is given (depending on your cat’s own unique metabolism). PZ generally lasts 12 hours (“duration”) resulting in a “curve” of BG numbers, downward around mid-cycle, then back upward toward the end of each 12-hour cycle. For this reason, it’s dosed twice a day.
    • PZ does provide a cat with an excellent chance of getting well-regulated and going into remission. We’ve had many different cats go into remission using this insulin.
    • PZ dosing can change more often than other insulins, since it is relatively ‘in and out’. But generally - especially at the start of treatment - it’s advisable to stick with a dose for at least 3 cycles; changes can be made after that, as needed."
    According to the prozinc info on this forum Lucy should be hitting her nadir around this time. The only thing that I'm wondering about is why you went from 1.5u, down to 1u and then back up to 1.25 u. Did something happen that you changed the dosage?
     
  37. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi Amber, I'm Bhooma and I'm in Mumbai so it's afternoon here for me. I don't have any experience with Prozinc and I've been here for less than a year, but I can be around as moral support. I remember how scary the first experience with normal but low numbers can be. Especially in the middle of the night! :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
  38. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Bhooma! I need to head off to bed. Here is some info that Amber should have and I'll paste it in case things get exciting. Lucy is still in safe numbers and as long as she is acting normal, the following is just for reference.

    "TREATMENT

    During treatment for hypoglycemia, try to test every 15 - 20 minutes until you see the bgs begin to rise. Then continue to test until you are satisfied that the cat is out of danger.

    VERY LOW NUMBERS – WITHOUT SYMPTOMS
    Retest glucose using a large blood sample to make certain you have enough blood, and if you still get a very low number (under 40 mg/dL or 1.9 – 2.2 mmol/L) administer a teaspoon of corn syrup, liquid glucose, pancake syrup or honey, or INSTA-GLUCOSE and follow with food until the blood glucose numbers rise to acceptable levels. The syrup can be mixed with wet food or poured over dry if the cat will eat the mixture. If using liquid glucose, dilute with water for a thinner consistency.

    LOW NUMBERS – WITHOUT SYMPTOMS
    Retest glucose using a large blood sample to make certain you have enough blood, and if you still get a low number (40 – 60mg/dL or 2.2 – 3.3mmol/L) give food or treats until the blood glucose numbers rise to an acceptable level. If the cat refuses to eat even his/her favorite foods, you can syringe feed or administer a small amount of syrup.

    LOW NUMBERS – MILD SYMPTOMS
    Try feeding first or give a little syrup or honey followed by food until the blood glucose numbers rise to an acceptable level and the symptoms disappear. The syrup can be mixed with wet food or poured over dry if the cat will eat the mixture. If the cat will not eat, syringe feed. If your cat will eat dry food. the high carbs will help to increase his/her bgs quickly, but remember the effects of dry food usually takes longer to clear kitty's system once the crisis has passed. Feeding a high carb canned food is preferable to feeding a high carb dry food because the effects will clear kitty's system faster. You can then follow with his/her favorite canned food. Keep in mind that giving syrup (Karo, etc.) or honey is not enough because the effects wear off quickly. You need to follow with food.
    IF IN ANY DOUBT, TELEPHONE YOUR VETERINARIAN.

    LOW NUMBERS – MODERATE SYMPTOMS
    Give a tablespoon of syrup, a teaspoon of liquid glucose, a tablespoon of honey or a tablespoon of sugar syrup followed by food and continue doing so until you see the blood glucose numbers rise to an acceptable level and all symptoms disappear. The syrup, honey, or glucose can be rubbed against the inside of the cat’s cheeks or on the gums for quick absorption. You can also mix the syrup with wet food or pour over dry if the cat will eat it. Continue to give syrup and food as needed and observe your cat for signs of recurring hypoglycemia. Keep in mind that giving syrup (Karo, etc.) or honey is not enough because the effects wear off quickly. You need to follow with food.
    IF IN ANY DOUBT, TELEPHONE YOUR VETERINARIAN.

    LOW NUMBERS – SEVERE SYMPTOMS
    Rub syrup, honey, or glucose on the gums and cheeks if your cat will allow it. Another option for administering syrup, diluted liquid glucose, honey or sugar syrup to a cat who is seizing is to fill a needleless syringe with the mixture and insert via the rectum.
    NEVER TRY TO SQUIRT SYRUP, HONEY, OR GLUCOSE TO A CAT WHO IS SEIZING AS THE CAT COULD CHOKE ON IT! RUSH TO EMERGENCY.

    AGAIN! ANYTIME YOU CAT IS SEIZING OR LIMP, RUB KARO, GLUCOSE OR HONEY ONLY ON GUMS OR ADMINISTER RECTALLY AND GET TO EMERGENCY OR YOUR NEAREST CLINIC IMMEDIATELY!!!"
     
  39. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    It's 2:30 am for me and I'm up in 4 hours, so I'm heading to bed. Lucy looks like she could be a bit of a bouncy kitty, so she may go high after hitting the green zone. I will check on how things went in the morning. G'nite.
     
  40. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Judy! I will be around.

    Amber, did Lucy eat her 1 am snack?
     
  41. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    I should also add that Amber, if you are ever unsure about dosage, post and ask for help prior.
     
  42. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    Ok useally when I post anything no One usually responds very much. Someone suggested I do 1.5 and I chose to do 1.25.
     
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  43. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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  44. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    Yes she just finished about 10 minutes ago
    1 oz
     
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  45. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sorry that has been the case. Sometimes, especially on weekends, some condos fall through the cracks. If you have a dosing question, tag @Deb & Wink who can help you with Prozinc. Do you know how to tag people? Also, putting the "?" prefix in your title thread as well as saying something like "question on dosing" should get you more eyes.
     
  46. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    Is It just like tagging somebody on Facebook If so yes
     
  47. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    It's good she ate. The food will take 20-30 minutes to affect numbers so there's no point testing before that.

    The 81 was at 1am which is +6?
     
  48. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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  49. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    Just did the 1am trying to read and bounce back to logging stuff I missed that one.. I take a picture of the meter ever time I test just in case
     
  50. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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  51. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I see an 84 @ 5.5 on her SS and a post here saying she was 81. Do you remember if those were two tests at 00:30 and 01:00 or just one test at half past midnight?

    Just re-checking when the last test was and what was her reading.
     
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  52. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    I'm going to hand write them I think with me doing so many test I think I logged something wrong.
     
  53. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    you're good. the SS shows all the numbers now. :bighug:
     
  54. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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  55. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    Ok I will recheck them later I just test 95 When should I retest and how often at this point.
     
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  56. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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  57. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    Thanks this sure is scary. I googled where you live There are some very beautiful pictures on Google
     
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  58. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    The 95 is the food bump. I presume that's the +7 (2am) reading? Going by her SS, her nadir seems to be around +7.

    Does she get a snack again before AMPS?

    You could set an alarm for a couple of hours from now and test again.
     
  59. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it takes a while to get used to green. I still have to take deep breaths when I see high double digits and tell myself these are normal healing numbers! :)
    You are doing great for your first time.

    Mumbai??? Beautiful? Really? Google them again in the morning after you've had some sleep! :p
     
  60. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    What is NADIR ?? YES 2 AM FEEDING NO SHE WILL NOT GET ANYTHING ELSE UNTIL 7:00 A.M. 5 HOURS FROM NOW
     
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  61. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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  62. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    I saw pictures under Wikipedia for Mumbai there was some pretty pictures
     
  63. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Nadir – lowest point blood glucose reaches during an insulin cycle.
    That's when the insulin action is at its peak and the BG numbers start trending higher after the nadir.

    So Lucy is due another snack at 2am? Has she eaten that?
     
  64. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I second this. She's a cutie!
     
  65. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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  66. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    I usually don't feed her after 1am should I give her something next meal is at 7am
     
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  67. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    do you think you could get one more test at +8 to see if she is heading up even after the 1am food bump wears off? i know you must be beat!
     
  68. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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  69. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    I will do one at 3 am that would be the +8 one
     
  70. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    great. she is in safe numbers and possibly past her nadir. but this looks like a bounce breaking cycle, so her nadir may be later. though i'm not sure what she is bouncing from. :confused:
     
  71. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    hey, did you get the +8?
     
  72. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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  73. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    Just did 116 If her numbers are still below 200 should I shoot. Or should I skip or should I reduce
     
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  74. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Great! She is headed up. You can hit the sack in peace. Good job tonight!

    Regarding shooting in the morning, why don't you post here and ask after you get the AMPS? My guess is that she will be above 150 which is the "ask before shooting" number.
    Start a new condo with tomorrow's date with a link to this one.
     
  75. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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  76. 8catsplus2

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  77. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    Thanks for all your help. And that's what I'll do
     
  78. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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  79. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi Amber,

    Quite the pyjama party! :nailbiting:

    For future reference, if you need to sleep and Lucy is in safe numbers but running a bit low, I'd suggest erring on the side of caution and leaving food out for her while you're not in a position to monitor her closely. You could perhaps set an alarm for 2 hours before her next dose is due so that you can lift her food to avoid her next PS test being food-influenced (assuming she's in safe numbers by then).


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
  80. Judy and Freckles

    Judy and Freckles Well-Known Member

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    Gmorning. Lucy had a nice run of numbers last night! Good job.
    Start a new post for today and link this one to it. By linking the post prozinc dosing people can quickly catch up on what’s been happening with Miss Lucy. It’s a good habit to get into to always link your posts.
     
  81. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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  82. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    I don't know what SLGS Is just tested she was 167.. going to feed.. should I shot hold reduce
     
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  83. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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  84. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    I don't know how to link this to a new post
     
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  85. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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  86. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    I have other cats can not leave out food besides she can't walk because of her neuropathy
     
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  87. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Tricky situation. :confused:

    .
     
  88. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I am going to tag a couple of senior members to help you with dosing
    @Sienne and Gabby (GA)
    @Deb & Wink
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
  89. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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  90. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    You should shoot, but the reduction point for SLGS is 90. Since she went below 90 last night she earned a reduction. But I am only familiar with depot insulins like Lantus and Levemir.

    @tiffmaxee
    @Briere Fur Mom
    @Sue and Luci
     
  91. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    Thanks she's done eating.ate about 0.9 oz
     
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  92. 8catsplus2

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  93. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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  94. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    I’m not familiar with Prozinc either. Sorry.
     
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  95. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    Should I just try an eyeball the .75 units on the U40 syringes. I do have some with a half gauges but since I'm half asleep how many lines do I go down on that one
     
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  96. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Oct 18, 2019
    the last shot was 1.25, so a 0.25 reduction would be 1 unit
     
  97. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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  98. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    Jun 13, 2020
    Someone said to reduce from 1 so that's what I did.. she probably got a little more than. .75. Because I had to eyeball it
     
  99. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2019
    OK. Do read that sticky on Prozinc Dosing Methods when you get the time. :)
     
  100. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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    Jun 13, 2020
  101. 8catsplus2

    8catsplus2 Member

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