8-27-20 New member and feeling overwhelmed

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by OlivesMom, Aug 27, 2020.

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  1. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    Hi everyone! My cat, Olive, was diagnosed on the 14th and it's been a nightmare since. We rescued Olive 8 years ago and uncertain as to her real age. We are thinking about 13 now. She was 18 pounds when we adopted her and fearing diabetes, we put her on a slow feeder that gave her 5 portions of food a day working around the clock. This brought her weight down to about 13 pounds over the years. We were told feeding small meals often would help with her metabolism.
    It was her constant water intake and peeing frequently that alerted us something was up, but we'd just lost our 19 year old cat a few months before and we thought Olive's distancing herself from us and then her drinking more was from anxiety at the loss of our other cat. When she stopped wanting to eat her kibble we KNEW something was wrong because she had always been the kind of cat who ate anything and wanted more. A week later she was diagnosed diabetic and was now at 10 pounds.
    They had her start on one unit of Lantus twice a day (Her first dose was given that night at 9pm) and I started keeping a notebook handy to jot down the numbers. The next morning at her 2nd dose, her numbers went to 76 midway between insulin shots. Same things happened the following day when she now dipped to 55 and showed signs of not doing so well so I offered her food. The vet had us feeding her twice a day, at 9am and 9pm and since the vet's office was closed at the time I took her BG, I was fearful of another hypoglycemic drop and didn't give her any insulin that night until I could talk to the vet in the morning. As luck would have it our vet wouldn't be back for days and the so another vet told us to continue with the one unit of insulin twice daily for a few days until our vet was back in. Against my better judgement I listened and gave her the shot that morning at 9 and by 1:30pm she was throwing up, looked bad, and her BG was at 65. I gave her some food and the numbers steadily went up over the day but I just couldn't give her another shot knowing she was going to continue to go so low.
    Olive had spent her life with us eating RAWZ dry kibble and in the mornings I would offer her whatever healthy canned food we had on hand so I could mix her Cosequin/probiotics/enzymes into it. She'd only get about a tablespoon of wet food each day (usually RAWZ pate or the equivalent). Within a week of diagnoses we started switching her over to raw food. She liked it and did well so had her completely switched over to raw by the end of the first week.
    When I finally did touch base with my vet, she said she wanted to try Olive on a curve for a week without insulin to see how her numbers went but that she didn't want to see her go above 500. I got into a panic a few days in when her BG reached over 525 and despite the fact we were told you can't give a cat half a unit of insulin, my syringe allowed for half units (I have the walgreens version) and I decided to give her half a unit. Six hours later she was at 94 and 12 hours later at the 9pm feeding she was at 192. I didn't offer anymore insulin at that time and by morning, 12 hours later, she was at 572. Got her to run around and even without the insulin she dropped to 60 by 3pm midway though day.
    Since then, I figured I was messing her system up by not being consistent, so decided to go back to the original plan which was to go a week without insulin and test frequently to get a good snapshot of her numbers. It's been a scary time and I'm spending my days with high anxiety and my nerves are shattered.
    A diabetic friend of ours suggested we feed Olive more frequently because she was used to eating 5 times a day and so we went to feeding her 3/4 of a cup of raw food into 4 smaller meals: 1/4 cup at 9am, 1/8 cup at noon, 1/4 cup at 3, and 1/8 cup at 9pm. Her BG is still off the charts, but feeding her this way has shown a pattern of making her BG levels lower than at night. Night is a nightmare time as her levels will rise to 500 and a few times closer to 600 by 9am the next morning. I have been getting up at the midway point around 3-4am every night to check her levels and then get her to play and run around. But despite this, her BG is still way high by morning.
    She's been on the raw diet now for just under 2 weeks along with probiotics and enzymes given every meal. (I had only been giving her a portion of the amount needed and only once a day) I spoke to the creator of these supplements who holds a masters in holistic approaches to diabetes and Dr. J said that by switching Olive to raw and giving her these supplements in every meal, that it was going to take time for Olive's body to find its balance. He said it could take a good two months for these changes to happen but to look at the whole body approach this way "You are replanting Olive's garden and it's going to take time for things to grow and evolve."
    In the meantime, I'm a nervous wreck. Clinically, Olive is acting like her old self again since switching to the raw diet. Last night, for the first time in I don't even know how long, she actually kept running through the house as I played a string chasing game with her. It was like she was a kitten again. She is now moving more than ever, and is once again spending her time around us instead of hidden in another room. You can't begin to tell by her actions that her BG levels are so high.
    I keep trying different things to see how it will effect her numbers. Just when I thought I saw a pattern develop, she shocked me again. She was at 249 at 9pm last night before her last snack of the day. By 4am she was at 464. So instead of the 15 minutes of play I've been giving her at that time of the morning, I decided to see if she'd want to play longer. To my shock she started running after her toy and chasing it, and swatting at it, and before I knew it 45 minutes had elapsed. I thought for sure this would bring her numbers down by 9am, but to my utter shock she was at 569. I rechecked her instantly and the numbers jumped to 580. I checked her again before the noon feeding and she was at 498. So I'm on here hoping somebody can help me figure this out. I love Olive so much and I'm at a loss at this point. I would like to see how she does at 1/4 unit of insulin, but I've already rocked the boat this week by not getting an uninterrupted BG curve. It would seem to me that she does far better during the day than at night and the only change there is the fact she's not eating for 12 hours. I think this is a major player in a cat who has spent her life eating around the clock in a timed feeder. She was eating about every 4 1/2 hours with that.
    I'm confused by the terminology I'm reading on here. But I think I'm correct in saying that if the BG levels stays high for long periods of time, which is the case with Olive, that a bounce can happen, which is what I've seen happen during the times when her BG has actually reached a somewhat good level. I just don't know what to do. I want to allow her body to find balance after adjusting to the total diet change, but her BG levels get so high it scares me. But not as much as her dips were doing while on the insulin.
    Our vet told us she's not real knowledgeable in feline diabetes and has ZERO clue about raw diets. She wants us to put Olive on the Diabetic food from Hills/Purina, and so forth. She's a great vet, but Olive is out of her wheelhouse and we need HELP. Any thoughts from this group would be welcome. Thanks everyone for taking the time to read this.
     
  2. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Welcome, Olive and Mom.

    Just having a read through of your post. It's going to take me a little while so I just wanted to say 'hello' to you in the meantime.

    Back in a little while...


    Mogs
    .
     
  3. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    WELCOME TO FDMB and am I GLAD you found us! We can definitely help. Hopefully that will lessen your stress. Its going to be ok Olive is in good hands and you both have found a safe place to land.
    I'm going to tag some people to come help @tiffmaxee @Critter Mom @Diane Tyler's Mom I think you need quick "eyes".
    Seriously these folks eat sleep breathe feline diabetes HOLD ON!
     
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  4. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Ahhhh Mogs! :bighug:
     
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  5. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    We are dedicated to help any and all that need guidance they arent getting from their vets. Once you HAVE landed you may want to start here:
    New? How You Can Help Us Help You!

     
  6. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Oh my. I just read through your post quickly and the best thing I saw was that your vet admitted she doesn’t know much about FD. You will soon educate her.

    Raw food is actually a good diet for fd as it’s low carb. The food she wants you to use is not necessary and there are many better choices. Feeding several meals spread out is what mist do here. Kudus to you. More kudos for home testing. You definitely prevented Olive from going hypo.

    Are you still feeding any dry food? If so the method you would follow here is SLGS. IF NOT you can consider TR as well.

    We need you to set up a spreadsheet. Mogs or JT will give you the directions. Fill in as many numbers as you have.

    Which meter are you using?
     
  7. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Hello and welcome!

    To start with, I think you should try to focus as much as possible on these two things:

    So, something you're doing is clearly helping her!

    I think your instincts are good about returning Olive to multiple feedings per day. A lot of vets seem to recommend the two-meals-only plan, but it's not necessary with Lantus and most cats do better with frequent feedings.

    Can you tell us, are you using a pet meter (such as the AlphaTrak2) to test blood glucose, or a human meter? It does sound as if Olive has been going too low. At this point, that is far more of a concern than the high numbers.

    It would be helpful going forward if you could get some of your BG data into spreadsheet format. We use a common template around here: FDMB SPREADSHEET INSTRUCTIONS. In the meantime, we can interpret the numbers as you've given them, once we know what kind of meter it is.

    Hang in there! You're doing all kinds of great things for Olive already, and it's paying off!
     
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  8. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    FDMB SPREADSHEET INSTRUCTIONS

    This spread sheet will show everyone at a glance just how the insulin is working in Olives body. Its the same as your little notebook (which is what I USE to use too) But it has whistles and bells that can alert any helper. Its a GREAT tool!
     
  9. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    oops Nan beat me to it. :p Thank you Nan!
     
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  10. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    This is for your signature it also will tell at a clance names Insulin type and all of Olives particulars: (your signature will appear at the bottom of each of your posts)

    Make sure your signature is up-to-date.
    • On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature. This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
      • There is a limit of two lines which may include two links; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc. This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
      • Add any other text, such as
      • Caregiver & kitty's name (optional)
      • DX: Date
      • Name of Insulin
      • Name of your meter
      • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
      • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
      • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
      • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
      • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
      • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
    Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.
     
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  11. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I know this is a LOT take it easy and go through it when youre not so stressed;):coffee:
    jeanne
     
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  12. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    This is correct. Basically, the cat's body gets used to high BG, so anytime she dips down into lower numbers (they don't even have to be low, just lower than she's used to), there's a counter-reaction and she zooms right back up.

    The really tricky thing about bounces is that they can last a loooong time-- up to three days. Until you know how and how long Olive likes to bounce, it can lead to seemingly nonsensical patterns where the insulin doesn't seem like it's doing anything for days, and then all of a sudden you get a dive. Or worse, if you happen to miss the brief dive, it just seems like she's high all the time and needs more insulin (when in reality, she might need less).

    I just want to reassure you, you really are doing great for someone so new to all of this! You've already figured out a bunch of stuff that will help Olive get on track, it's just not (usually) a quick process. It takes some time to see the BG patterns, it takes time for the cat's body to adjust to an insulin dose and get used to normal numbers again. But you are definitely on the right track so far!
     
  13. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I would like to add this little phrase we say at LEAST 3 times a day:
    Diabetes is NOT a sprint its a Marathon.;)
     
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  14. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    I'm so thankful for everyone who has responded. :bighug:I've never been on a forum before so I'm uncertain if I need to reply to people individually or if just hitting the reply button will show what I write to everyone. I will work on the spreadsheet and signature thing. Yes, I'm using the Alphatrak2 Meter. I was terrified at the thought of taking her blood, but Olive has been a real trooper through this and because she's so calm it has actually settled my nerves down doing it. I went to upload Olive's photo but it keeps coming through sideways no matter what I do. But at least you can see our baby if you crook your neck. lol
     
  15. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
  16. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    How many days has it been since you stopped feeding dry food and have given her only raw food? By the way, big fan of raw food myself too. It did good things for my Neko. It doesn't take weeks for dry food to work out of their system, more like days.

    You don't need to reply to people individually - you can answer as many questions as you want from different people on the same new post.
     
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  17. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    No, I'm not feeding any dry food now. We stopped about two weeks ago at diagnosis. From the 14th when she was diagnosed we stopped dry and started trying to get her to eat solely the canned RAWZ pate. She ate that for about a week and during that time we started to incorporate the raw. By the end of week one we'd transitioned her fully to raw. I know you are supposed to transition slower than that but she didn't really want to eat the RAWZ canned pate and she showed a lot of interest in the raw by nearly biting the tip of my finger off (lol) so we simply let her dictate what she wanted and she chose raw. So she's been totally raw for about 10 days now. We're just blown away how positively she's responded to it. And no, she's not currently taking insulin. I know she needs it, but trying to get the BG numbers for a solid week before we travel that scary road again.

    What does TR and SLGS mean? Also, what does a signature look like once written? I found the signature button, but uncertain how one is supposed to look after written.

    Thank you for the words of confidence. My husband and I have felt so alone in her care and I now have some hope things will improve for our baby.
     
  18. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Awwwww Hi Olive! :bighug:
     
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  19. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Individual signatures are at the bottom of everyones posts in light grey.

    ETA : Mine is different cause I no longer have a diabetic kitty cat.
     
  20. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Back to you. (Sorry for the delay. I have PTSD and it makes assimilating new information a bit of a struggle. :rolleyes: )


    [Emphasis mine]

    It is clear from the observations you have made and the BG readings you have gathered that there is definitely something awry with Olive's blood glucose regulation.

    I think it is possible that part of the problem you're having right now may be due to Olive being underweight. It can be tricky to administer insulin to underweight cats. Their BG levels may be sky high at times but administration of even a tiny dose of insulin can cause them to tank right down into hypo territory, and they skyrocket again without insulin.

    Wild swings in BG like this can also happen to humans who are 'brittle' diabetics.

    If Olive's BG levels are going sky high then she does need insulin support, but you need to be able to administer it safely, not having her BG yoyo-ing wildly - and potentially dangerously.

    I would suggest talking to your vet about feeding Olive a higher carb diet for the time being. The higher carb load should enable her to receive insulin safely and help her get back to a healthy weight. Once Olive has regained the weight it may become more straightforward to administer insulin safely and you could then perhaps revisit food choices.

    That's the best suggestion I can offer. I hope it might help.

    Here's a forum post by member @Meya14 who has had a lot of experience working with human diabetics, in which she offers an explanation of how being underweight can affect glucose regulation:

    https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/brittle-diabetic.182674/#post-2026117

    IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTE ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Because Olive is currently spending some of the time in quite high unregulated numbers, as a safety precaution I strongly recommend that for the time being you test Olive's urine daily for ketones. Here are some helpful resources with further information and useful tips:

    Testing Your Cat for Ketones

    Tips for Collecting Urine Samples


    Olive may now be spending more of her day in a better BG range on the low carb diet and that could be what's making her feel much better overall, but the fact that she still runs high at times shows there is a blood sugar regulation problem that needs to be addressed.


    For future reference, glucometers are only accurate to within +/- 20% of the actual blood glucose reading. Due to the meter tolerance range, the above two readings are are to all intents and purposes the same. It is normal for two readings taken one immediately after the other to be different, even if one were to do two separate tests from the same blood sample. Given that the reading variance is a percentage of the 'true' BG level, discrepancy between readings will be small when the BG is at a lower level and larger when BG is high.


    Yes, she certainly does sound like a great vet. She is willing to tell her clients where there are gaps in her knowledge. It indicates that she is focused on patient safety and well-being - and hopefully keen to learn more about feline diabetes. :)

    I hope some of the above may be helpful to you and your vet.


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
  21. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    As Wendy has already mentioned above, any new posts or replies you make can be read by anyone viewing this thread.

    If you want to reply to the full post left by another member, just click the Reply option under the post on the right hand side of the screen. Their message will appear as a quote in the reply text entry box at the end of the thread. You can then type your response underneath the quoted message.

    If you only want to reply to part of another member's post, then click and drag over the text you're interested in to highlight it. You'll then see a little tag underneath the text saying 'Reply'. Click on the little tag and only the highlighted part of the message will be quoted in the reply text entry box.

    You can quote different snippets - from the same message or from different messages - and reply to each snippet within a single post (see my long reply to you for an example).

    Hope that all makes sense. :confused: :)


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
  22. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    You aren't alone any more.
    :bighug::bighug::bighug:

    I'm glad you've found FDMB. We'll do all we can to help you.


    Mogs
    .
     
  23. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    You've landed in a safe place.
    WELCOME TO OUR FAMILY. :bighug:
     
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  24. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    Thank you everyone! I'll work on the spreadsheet tomorrow. I've got a lot of info in my head now. Just a call from the new vet I enquired about whom my vet suggested to take over. She wants Olive's BG numbers printed out and has tweaked her meal schedule to offer more food at night and less between the 9 and 9 feedings. So she'll get her two heavier meals morning and night with a light snack around 11 or midnight. She wants me to test her urine too so I've got to pick up the test strips tomorrow. For tonight she liked the BG numbers on the day she only got half a unit of Lantus, so wants me to do a half unit at 9 tonight. I'll be up all night making sure she doesn't go Hypo. Will talk to you tomorrow. Good night everyone.
     
  25. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    There are members here from all over the world though it can get a little quiet in the wee, wee hours. Holler tonight if you have questions or run until difficulty.

    If Olive does go below 68, change the title of this thread. At the top righthand corner, you should see

    upload_2019-9-19_11-4-47.png
    Click on Thread Tools and then on Edit Title which will take you to

    upload_2019-9-19_11-5-35.png

    Click on the red 911 and change the title to New. Low numbers. Need help now.
    Type in the meter reading as well.
     
  26. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    If Olive's underweight and spending at least some of the time in very high numbers then she needs to eat more than a cat at ideal weight (the body can't use nutrients properly when it doesn't have enough insulin hence why diabetic cats often lose weight in spite of eating more than normal). For a cat on insulin - especially a cat on a long-acting insulin like Lantus - feeding regular small meals at different points in the cycle can help slow BG drops and even things out more. The big meal at preshot is more of a requirement when using intermediate-acting insulins. Here's an excerpt from a post I wrote about this earlier:

    'Frontloading' cats with large meals at the beginning of a cycle is necessary when using insulins that hit hard and fast after dose administration and peter out many hours before the next dose is due (e.g. Caninsulin/Vetsulin, Novolin N). The action profile of Lantus is very different. It has a gentler onset and typically does not drop BG like a rock when it kicks in. Lantus also typically has much longer duration than intermediates like Caninsulin and Novolin. Therefore, there is much greater freedom when it comes to feeding schedules for cats on Lantus and other long-acting insulins.

    Feeding smaller, more frequent meals is less likely to spike BG levels during the cycle and can be easier on the pancreas. Some cats, for example those with pancreatitis, need to be fed little and often and that works well when paired with a long-acting insulin such as Lantus. For cats without complications receiving Lantus, it is best to get most, if not all, of the feeding done in the first half of each 12-hour cycle, but it's not strictly necessary. Food only needs to be withheld for the two hours before each preshot test so that the reading won't be food-influenced.
    Be careful with the 0.5 unit dose, especially at night time (most cats run in lower numbers at night). I know it's not easy, but if it were my kitty I'd be up all night monitoring too. Your vet's recommendation to give more food at night is a good one.

    Sending prayers for an uneventful night. :bighug:


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
  27. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    A word of caution:

    Lantus is a depot insulin. It creates a store of insulin in the body, a sort of 'chemical pancreas'. Each dose builds on the next until the depot for a given dose is 'filled'. While BG may remain in safe levels in the 12 hours following the administration of the first dose of 0.5 unit, as the size of the depot increases numbers may go lower during subsequent cycles on the same 0.5 unit dose.


    Mogs
    .
     
  28. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    That's what scares me, as the lantus builds up that her numbers will go hypo and stay there. Should I try a quarter unit verses the half unit first? I just finished the article on Starting low and going slow. Is it better to start less than the half unit then? I know the new vet said to do a half unit tonight but I'm scared. Olive has always run high at night. Yes, she's definitely under weight now. The net wanted her to eat larger, more infrequent meals at first until I told her I'm simply not able to get Olive to eat more than 1/4 cup at a time and I have to work at that. If she eats only 1/8 of a cup, she will eat the food in moments. To get any weight back on her I'll have to continue feeding her smaller meals throughout the day in order to make up for the whole. How much raw food should she be eating in a day? I'm getting 3/4 cup in her now. Feeding Primal Raw Turkey Nuggets. The first week she wouldn't even eat that. I want her to safely gain.
     
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  29. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Can you get in touch with your vet by phone to let them know how nervous you are about giving the half-unit dose tonight?


    Mogs
    .
     
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  30. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    The high numbers you are seeing is called a bounce. It is the body's natural reaction to low numbers or even lower numbers that it is used to.
    In a nutshell, the liver panics and tells the body to release sugar.

    Definition of a bounce: Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast. The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver".
     
  31. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    Unfortunately I can't reach her until tomorrow. I may just skinny-up the half unit dose tonight.

    Bouncing defines Olive in a nutshell. Without insulin she stays high all the time. 300-500 is her normal. When she's managed to go to 250, she shoots right back up to high gear again and it's hard to bring her down for some time. Once I can complete the spreadsheet you'll see why I've been so nervous. Speaking of which, what do the words mean on the spread sheet, like AMP? Maybe someone can give me an example of just one line and what it means.
     
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  32. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    There is nothing you can do about a bounce except wait it out.
    It is the low numbers that are worrisome.
    Yes, go with 0.25 units tonight and get a +1 and a +2 test. The +2 test is sometimes indicative of how the cycle might play out.
     
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  33. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Understanding the spreadsheet

    If you need some help with getting it set up, I'd be happy to do it for you. Takes me about 60 seconds once I have some information from you. If you'd like me to do that, just click on my name and choose "start a conversation" to send me a private message.
     
  34. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    Ok, I'll do a quarter unit tonight then. I feel more comfortable. What exactly does +1 and a +2 mean? Does that mean I should test her 1 hour after the shot and then again 2 hours after? If she goes hypo it's usually between 4 and 6 hours after insulin is given.
     
  35. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Yes. We have people from all over the world here. Stating it's coming up to 10 p.m. means nothing to them.
    AMPS is morning shot time.
    PMPS is evening shot time.
    +1 is one hour after you give the shot.
    +2 is two hours after you give the shot.
    etc.
     
  36. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    AMPS - Morning preshot blood test
    PMPS - Evening preshot blood test
    +1, +2, etc. - the number of hours that have elapsed since the dose was administered. If you do a blood test 3 hours after dose admin, record the reading in the appropriate +3 column (morning or evening).


    Mogs
    .
     
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  37. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    From the Lantus stickie.
    This is just example. Cats like to mess with us. And not every cat nadirs (the lowest number of a cycle) conveniently around the same time.
    Bold emphasis is mine.

    Example of an ACTIVE, but NOT necessarily typical Lantus/Basaglar cycle:
    NOTE: Until kitty is pretty well regulated, the description below is NOT not what you'd consider a "typical" Lantus/Basaglar cycle. It takes time and patience for kitty to achieve a "typical" cycle! The example below is what you're working towards (a nice shallow curve). A relatively flat cycle is the ultimate goal.

    +0 - PreShot number.
    +1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
    +2 - Often similar to the PreShot number. Onset begins around +2 for most cats. You'll probably see an active cycle if the +2 is the same/similar OR lower than the preshot number. Continue testing!
    +3 - Often lower than the PreShot number.
    +4 - Lower.
    +5 - Lower.
    +6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle. NOTE: ECID. Not every cat has a mid-cycle nadir. Adjust the hours on this example to fit your cat.)
    +7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
    +8 - Slight rise.
    +9 - Slight rise.
    +10 - Rising.
    +11 - Rising (one of the quirks of Lantus/Basaglar/Levemir: some cat's blood glucose numbers dip around +10 or +11... not to be confused with nadir).
    +12 - PreShot number.​
     
  38. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
  39. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    @Chris & China (GA) -

    My eyes are out on stalks over here, and I'm really fading. Would you be able to keep an eye out for Olive's mom for this cycle and perhaps arrange some continuity cover for when you go offline?


    Mogs
    .
     
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  40. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Yeah, I'll check in!
     
  41. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    @Chris & China (GA) - You are an absolute star, Chris. Thank you! :bighug:

    Goodnight, people. Wishing everyone a safe evening.


    Mogs
    .
     
  42. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    @Wendy&Neko - You mentioned above that you're a fan of raw diets. Would you be able to help Olive's mom with the question on raw feeding?


    Mogs
    .
     
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  43. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    If it's the Primal Freeze Dried Turkey nuggets, 1 ounce (3-4 nuggets) is 123 calories.

    A good place to start is 20 calories per pound of ideal weight.....so if 10lbs is an ideal weight, you'd want to get at least 200 calories per day. Weigh once a week and increase/decrease as necessary. A diabetic cat may need extra calories until their blood glucose is under better control because while the BG is too high, they aren't able to get the full benefit of the food they're eating.
     
  44. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    Is anybody on? I'm freaking out. I gave Olive the quarter unit of Lantus at 9pm with 1/4 cup of food and then the 1/8 c food the vet said to give her at 11pm. Her BG was 403 at 9 pre shot. I tested her 1 hour later at 10pm and she was 418. 2 hours after the shot she was 552, and I just tested her again at midnight and she's 645. What can I do?
     
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  45. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Get that spreadsheet going, then we'll be able to help you with dosing. Go to bed. :bighug: No need to test further tonight. Looks like the food is bumping her up maybe? Any chance you have a second meter or package of strips? Have you set the code correctly for a cat on the meter?

    As far as gaining weight on raw, another thing to think about is the type of protein you are feeding. Some, like duck, lamb, chicken thigh, are higher in fat so higher calorie and will help add weight. Venison, rabbit, some turkey are fairly low fat. Also meaning you'll need to feed more to get the same number of calories.
     
  46. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    I was wondering the same thing about the added food bumping her up. She's never been this high and she's never had back to back meals this late at night since going raw. No, I don't have a second meter and I'm waiting for some new test strips to arrive this week. I set the code on my meter to the number for cats on the test strip container so I know that's correct. I simply can't go to sleep until her numbers come down. I'm so afraid she's going to seizure at these levels. I didn't know turkey was low fat. I'll have to get some chicken and see if she likes that.
     
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  47. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Cats tolerate high numbers better than humans do. In all the years I've been here, I've never heard of a cat having a seizure from high blood glucose even when they were in the 700's. High numbers take time to do damage....it's the low numbers that kill quickly.

    There's really nothing you can do since you don't want to give more insulin now so try to get some rest. We all understand how you're feeling though!

    One thing you'll hear a lot here is "it's a marathon, not a sprint" and truer words were never spoken.
     
  48. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    Thank you for being here tonight, Chris. It helped to hear that. Reason I'm so concerned is because the new vet said earlier tonight that she was surprised Olive hadn't seizured after I told her Olive's numbers had reached short of 569 yesterday. Now being 645, I've been so scared. At least you guys understand how I'm feeling and that helps. Think I'll try and get some sleep. You've made me feel a little better. Until tomorrow. I'll be getting the spread sheet done then.
     
  49. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    Thank you to everyone!:)
     
  50. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    If it helps, in the early days, my cat's numbers sometimes were so high the meter just said "Hi", meaning out of high range. I hated it when the meter greeted me "Hi". All I could do was wait it out. She did eventually become regulated.
     
  51. Lalkabee

    Lalkabee Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2020
    Quite a wall of text but i do understand why you are panicking,..I've been there. About food, you want to drop all the dry and start giving pate wet food but read the labels.
     
  52. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    PRECAUTIONARY NOTE:
    NEVER remove dry kibble completely all at once. The sudden removal of dry can drastically drop BG numbers. (Troubles dropped 100 points OVERNIGHT.)
    (The same can be said for high carbed can food)
    j
     
  53. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    Good morning. What a night. I must have tweaked the insulin too much and ended up not giving her even the quarter unit. Either that, or I didn't inject it properly, which I don't think happened. Plus I think giving her the added food a few hours after her main meal (as the vet suggested) at shot time jacked her numbers up even more. Her numbers rose to 645 by midnight and were at 555 by 3am and 514 by 9am pre shot. The vet had me give her another insulin shot at 9. She wanted half a unit. Fearful I'm not giving her even the quarter dose properly, I figured a sure thing was better at this point, so I gave her just slightly under the half unit mark. Being daytime I feel much more secure in the fact I can watch her like a hawk if she hypos. At least sticking to just under the half unit mark I KNOW she's getting a set amount of insulin. It's just too difficult with my Walgreens needles to find the quarter mark. I'll be working on the spread sheet today. Thank you to everyone who has been helping and I really appreciate your help through the night.
    That's what I was afraid I was going to see. I'm relieved to know your cat went through that and did eventually become regulated. Gives me hope.
     
  54. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Awwwwww hugs to you! I think maybe you should add CHOCOLATE to your hypo kit. Not for Olive of course but for YOU!
    Dont worry its going to be ok!
    j
     
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  55. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    I wouldn't jump to that conclusion... The numbers today aren't always a result of the shot today, remember bounces can last a looooooong time. It's more likely that Olive was still bouncing from a low sometime than that you did anything 'wrong' last night. Patience is key!

    If you're shooting a skinny 0.5U, that's your new dose for a while (unless she goes low again). We want to stick to a consistent dose so that the depot can settle down and we can properly evaluate what the dose is doing. Unless, again, she goes low-- then we know immediately that the dose is too high and have to reduce.
     
  56. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    LOL. You may be right.:D
    Oh okay, I didn't realize. I'm just so confused as to what the right thing is at this time. Now I wish I hadn't given her the half unit 4 hours ago and tried for the quarter again. I say this because Olive's BG numbers have dropped significantly since the shot. She's at 95 now and if the past is any indication, she will continue to drop for the next few hours and instead of worrying about her being too high, I'm now worried about her going hypo. I have the Karo ready and some food. I'm watching her like a hawk now. As long as I don't see any noticeable signs of hypo should I keep testing on the hour or do I need to go more frequent?
     
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  57. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Ive always said "You cant test too much" I now there are circumstances where of course that wont do but testing is information. Information brings knowledge.
    You have all the tools you need.(in case) ;)
     
  58. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Olive's Mom! (It would be nice to know your name too, but if you'd prefer not to share it that's A-OK. :) )

    Glad all went safely overnight and I'm glad that @Chris & China (GA) was here with you. (Thank you, Chris! :bighug: )

    Can you let us know what foods you have at home (brand and variety, please). If you know them, the carb values would be great too.

    e.g.

    Brand X - Variety A - Wet/Dry - ??% carbs
    Brand Y - Variety B - Wet/Dry - ??% carbs

    Also whatever treats you have (e.g. Temptations, Dreamies, Purebites)


    Mogs
    .
     
  59. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    My name is Robyn and there's a really fast answer to your food question. She only gets Primal frozen Raw Turkey nuggets. The raw food is 97% protein and 0.04% carbs. I don't offer treats because now I'm afraid to give her anything with carbs. I was just planning to offer her more of the raw if she hypos. Is there something else you would suggest in the case of hypo?
     
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  60. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    Okay, Olive is now dropped to 69 and we are +5 since the half unit of insulin was given. I know it's going to continue to drop as she kept dropping last time and didn't start to go up until 7 hours after shot. Should I keep monitoring and see how much lower it goes or intervene now with some food?
     
  61. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Robyn! :)


    Ok, you're on an Alphatrak meter and that's right at the bottom of the normal range. You need to intervene with food now. Give a small amount of the low carb food straight away - ONLY A COUPLE OF TSPS FOR NOW. It's important for Olive not to get filled up because it is likely we will need her to eat frequent small amountsuntil we know she's going to stay in safe numbers). Keep the honey to hand (but don't give any for now).

    Then come back and tell me:

    * If you are in the US.

    * If there is anyone else at home with you right now who could get to a shop quickly to get some different cat foods (will give you more info what to get when I know where you are geographically).


    Mogs
    .
     
  62. JaxBenji

    JaxBenji Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2020
    Hi @OlivesMom - Just here for support and to say WELCOME - hats off to you for finding this group so fast - Olives is so LUCKY to have YOU. I can totally relate to feeling alone and overwhelmed - everyone here is SO SO supportive and will do everything they can to help. I've only been in this group a week and it's immensely helpful. Just keep on keeping on - reading and learning (and chocolate really does help :)).
     
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  63. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    IMPORTANT:

    Note the time you gave the food and test again 15 minutes later and post the result here ASAP.

    You may need to add test strips to the shopping list.

    .
     
  64. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    Ok, I'm back. I had decided to go ahead and feed her a little so I was happy when I returned to this forum to see I'd made the right decision. It's the pages I printed out and kept in my hypo toolbox that came in handy. I wanted to cut off the hypo at the pass. I will continue to monitor her closely. I also called the vet's office to tell them her numbers and that I knew they would continue to drop. I only got relayed messages from the vet, but I did tell the tech I want to try her on a quarter unit and she said they could write out a script for those syringes. Yes! I have no clue where we'll find them though. I live in Wisconsin, USA. Yes, my husband is home early from work. He can get whatever food you suggest for when her numbers go low.
     
  65. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    A lot of us use Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers for quick carb (all the carbs are in the gravy, so we just feed a tsp or so of that when we need to bump them up). Not sure if that's something you want to use along with the raw feeding, though (not for any reason other than if you're trying to keep to a raw diet-- FF definitely does not qualify). Another thing you can do to make a medium-carb food is to add a couple drops of honey to her regular food. We use straight honey for emergencies when we need them to come up fast; the honey+low carb food is kind of an intermediate action.


    Good catch on the 69!
     
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  66. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Sorry if my replies are a little brief at the moment. This is to speed up exchange of important information between us. (Please don't think I'm being abrupt, just need to keep everything focused on Olive's safety at the moment. :) )

    Firstly:

    Please test Olive's BG again as soon as 15 minutes have elapsed since you gave her food. If it is more than 15 minutes ago, test her straight away and post the result.

    Also, please post how many test strips you have left for the Alphatrak meter.

    .
     
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  67. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Unfortunately, there are no syringes that I'm aware of with quarter-unit markings. We just use the half-unit marked syringes and eyeball it ;).

    Just to confirm the syringes you are currently using: they are U-100 (with an orange cap) and 3/10 cc in size, correct?
     
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  68. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Nan. How long is that likely to keep BG levels up?

    .
     
  69. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Not sure exactly-- I think it's a little more durable than honey alone, and maybe less likely to cause tummy upset, because of the added food.
     
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  70. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    BG is 109 now. I only have 25 test strips left. I ordered more and they won't be here until Monday. Ugh!
     
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  71. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Hmmm... maybe you can put a cheap human meter (Relion brand at Walmart is a favorite around here for convenience/budget reasons) on hubby's shopping list! Always good to have a backup, even if you want to stick with the AT2.
     
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  72. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Thanks for reply, Nan.

    I don't know much about raw but from seeing posts by Chris I think it's ultra-low-carb and also very calorie dense so I'm worried about a tiny amount filling Olive up too quickly and her not wanting to eat later in the cycle should she need to. She has been down into the 50s before per Robyn's OP and we've no idea yet how Olive responds to carbs (sensitivity, speed of metabolism).

    Can you recommend another brand of gravy food in case there might be no FF Gravy Lovers?

    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
  73. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Thank you.

    109 is fine for now, but you'll need to check again soon to check if Olive's BG is staying up. You're still only mid-way through the cycle. I'd normally suggest testing in 15 minutes but I'm conscious of the strip situation, so ...

    Next question: Do you have a Walmart nearby?

    .
     
  74. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    That's a good idea. Are the BG numbers very different from the AT2? I only know the AlphaTrak2. Olive's syringes are the orange capped ones from Walgreens. U-100 0.3ML 31 Gauge. We're sticking with the Raw food because it's so high in protein and only has 0.04% carbs, plus it ties in well with their carnivore diet. They also love it, which is a bonus. I have two cats. We just lost our 19 year old baby end of April. It crushed us. Now we're battling this with Olive.
     
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  75. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Stop stealing my material, Nan! :p

    :D

    .
     
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  76. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    @Nan & Amber (GA) - Is there another brand of gravy food you can recommend in addition to the FF GLs?

    .
     
  77. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Quick summary of last night/today's action (please add/correct anything I get wrong):

    PM+3 645
    PM+6 555
    AMPS: 514, 0.5U given
    +4: 95
    +5: 69, food (low-carb?) given
    +5.25: 109

    I think you're right about this, definitely something to be very cautious about.

    Ahhh.... nothing with which I have specific experience. FF is probably the most mass-market and readily available option in the US-- you can find it at corner stores, so it should be easily located, it's just that it's pretty much the opposite of a raw, "natural" diet.

    On meters, if you don't have a Walmart near you, check your local Walgreens or CVS or other big chain pharmacy. They likely have a store brand meter with cheap strips (I used a CVS meter as a backup, mostly because that's what I have in walking distance so it won out on convenience)
     
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  78. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Sorry I don't really have a specific rec, but I should say, probably anything advertised as "with gravy" probably means carbs. I also used Temptations treats as BG boosters, of course they're also pretty far from a raw aesthetic, they're basically the cat version of gummi bears.
     
  79. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    Yes, we're only about 15 minutes from one. I think we'll pick up a human Relion meter. Plus get some FF. Going to go test her again.
     
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  80. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Alas, insulin doesn't care about nutritional purity...
    .
     
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  81. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    OK, good. Just double-checking the syringe, we sometimes get mistakes by the pharmacy (or even sometimes the vet).

    The numbers will be lower on a human meter than what you're used to. There's no real conversion between the two, the only hard-and-fast rule is that while the "take action" number on the AT2 is 68, it's 50 on a human meter. After that, you'll always be working with relative numbers-- what matters is whether the cat is going up or down.
     
  82. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Brilliant!

    Suggested Shopping List
    ----------------------------------

    For your toolkit:

    * Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers - Beef Variety (couple of cans)
    * Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers - Any other varieties (couple of cans)
    * Fancy Feast Classic Patés - Chicken Feast preferably (NOT Ocean Whitefish and Tuna)
    * Temptations Cat Treats

    If you can't get FF Gravy Lovers, get some other cat food in gravy. try for these:

    * Weruva Grandma's Chicken Soup
    * Weruva Cats in the Kitchen: Chick Magnet Pouches
    * Weruva Cats in the Kitchen: Love Me Tender Pouches


    Testing Supplies:

    * Relion Prime Meter and test strips (strips are <$20 per 100) - see Nan's recommendations above if you can't get the Prime.
    * Lancets
    * Ketone Test Strips (if you don't already have any)

    Plus:

    * CHOCOLATE!

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Nan & Amber (GA) - can you think of anything I've missed?

    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
    Reason for edit: UPDATED FOOD OPTIONS & MINOR CORRECTION STRUCK THROUGH.
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  83. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
     
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  84. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    For higher carb foods, Weruva makes a couple canned/pouch options. I fed them instead of Fancy Feast gravy because FF has wheat that my girl was allergic to. Weruva Grandma's Chicken Soup is a 21% carb canned food. In their Cats in the Kitchen line, Chick Magnet, Love Me Tender pouches were my go-to's at 16-17% carbs, so the lower end of high carb. Not all gravy canned foods are high carb - I used to keep the catinfo list on my tablet or phone and look at it when in the store.

    Treats are fine - but Temptations are very high carb. Any pure meat treat (dehydrated) is a perfect low carb treat and in line with feeding raw. I buy dehydrated raw treats.
     
  85. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Precisely why I suggested them, Wendy, as something for Olive's hypo toolkit, not a day-to-day treat. :)

    Thank you for the recommendations for additional foods. (Bookmarked!)


    Mogs
    .
     
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  86. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    Ok, I'll give Hubby (Steve) the list for the toolkit. Wow, the test strips are so much cheaper for the Relion verses the AT2. No, I don't have any ketone test strips. The vet gave me some glucose strips for her urine which I've been so preoccupied just trying to get her to stay ALIVE today that I haven't even thought about using as of yet. Got those today. Will have hubby look for the ketone strips. I know nothing about them. This vet said she doesn't test using those, just the glucose in the urine.
    Olive's BG went down to 82 a half hour ago so I'm going to test again here soon.
     
  87. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    I feed my two young ones Primal frozen raw and Small Batch. SB is only available on the west coast. Good thing you are bg testing.
     
  88. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Shopping list above has been updated to add Wendy's (and JT's) suggestions.

    .
     
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  89. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Steve! (Great name. My dad was a Steve. :) )

    ,
     
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  90. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Max loved Soulistic Tripke Harmony pouches. Very high carb. Available at a Petco.
     
  91. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    Hubby says thanks to you all for being there for for us...and for helping me not to lose my mind through this. ;) He's worried about me since I'm not sleeping and not getting around to eating...hmm, can't imagine why. lol. Hopefully things will start to calm soon. For now, I'm just battling a ton of anxiety as I want to get this right, for Olive. It's stressful too when the vet is not telling us to feed her 2 large meals at 9 and 9 and a small snack between, when I've already told her that Olive won't eat large meals at a crack. Olive likes smaller meals portioned throughout the day. Plus I already know she's going to say I can't give her a quarter unit of insulin, which is what I really think needs to happen.
     
  92. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    How long was this after the insulin dose was given? (+????).

    .
     
  93. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    That is getting low on an AT.
     
  94. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

    Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs


    Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs


    Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

    Good to have these on hand, it's really only the Gravy you would need to feed him, or just a teaspoon of the food.
    It's good to write the carbs on the cans also
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
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  95. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Yo-yo central.

    .
     
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  96. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    Just checked her BG and she's at 70. +7 after half insulin given now. When she was at 82 it was +6 after insulin was given.
     
  97. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Thanks, Robyn.

    * You need to feed Olive again straight away.(She's right at the bottom of the normal range again.)

    * Give the same amount as you gave last time.

    * Test again after 15 minutes to make sure her BG has come back up again.

    .
     
  98. OlivesMom

    OlivesMom Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    ok. Going to do that. Do I need to add Karo?
     
    jt and trouble (GA) likes this.
  99. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    This is on AT? I would feed her a few teaspoons. I haven’t read all this. What carb levels do you have?Never mind. I see you were answered. I’ll stay off so as not to confuse you.
     
  100. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Only the raw, Elise, plus honey. Hubby has gone to get hypo toolkit food supplies.

    Scores on the doors:

    +5.00 - 69 - fed couple tsps raw
    +5.25 - 109
    +6.00 - 82
    +7.00 - 70

    .
     
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