how to deal with diabetes and crf diets

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Alix, Mar 13, 2012.

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  1. Alix

    Alix Member

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    Mar 6, 2012
    So I have 3 cats and they all decided to create a little angst in my life at the same time - serves me right cuz I went on a cruise and left them with the vet!! I came home to find out the the little one (Scamp - 6) has diabetes (okay dealing with that - now home testing and she is doing pretty good) and my other two (Mischief and Trouble - both 16 years old) have the very beginnings of crf and have been on a month long go of benazepril and of course a diet change for all.

    Hence the angst in my life!!! Both Scamp and Mischief are little pigs and want to eat everything in sight - Trouble is a grazer and wants to eat when he feels like it. Scamp is on a different diet than Mischief and Trouble and I am finding it very hard to keep an eye on three dishes. I am wondering how others have dealt with keeping cats to the correct diet and not sneaking from the other ones dish and how much damage is going to happen to my cats if they eat the wrong food??

    Can anybody give me some ideas??
     
  2. Rachel & Gus

    Rachel & Gus Member

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    Oct 10, 2010
    I separate my cats and meal feed them. I leave a little wet food with water added to it out during the day but it is one they can both have. I don't know what kind of diet your cats are on. I don't know if you would want to separate them all day in different rooms just so they could eat whenever they wanted. My cats used to have food in front of them all the time and could eat whenever they wanted until Gus got diabetes and then things changed. The adapted and learned to eat on a schedule. I hope you find a solution that makes you and your kitties happy.
     
  3. Alix

    Alix Member

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    Mar 6, 2012
    i have tried to separate them but I live in an "open concept home" so I can only put one in the bathroom at a time and then I have to watch the other two to make sure that they stay away from one anothers food. I have tries locking Scamp up cuz she is the diabetic and then after about a minute she will have finished her meal (she is voracious) and is asking to get out. At this point I get distracted so Mischief leaves his dish (cuz its 75% done) and pushes Trouble away from his dish (which may be 5% done) and so after scrambling I take Trouble's dish away from Mischief, let Scamp out of the bathroom and put Troubles dish in there - now scamp is in Mischiefs dish and mischief is letting her eat cuz my back is turned and I am trying to get Trouble to eat.

    Bottom line I guess is that my cats have me bamboozled and I am trying to be strict with them but they are sneaky !! The big issue is that the diet that Trouble and Mischief are on is very wrong for Scamp and vice versa.

    I was just hoping for an easy answer - and I don't think there is one. But I appreciate the suggestion - thank you Rachel and Gus
     
  4. Julia & Bandit (GA)

    Julia & Bandit (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    What are you feeding the early stage CKD kitties? You could feed all three the same thing, as long as you pick a kidney-friendly, low carb food. If you are feeding a low protein prescription kidney diet, those are NOT good for early stage CKD cats. They cause muscle wasting and should not be fed long term. Low protein is not beneficial for a CKD cat until you get to the end stages. With early stage CKD, you want to feed a commercial food that is low phosphorus and lower sodium, with a higher quality protein source (no byproducts). There are several foods that fit all these requirements and are also low carb.

    Gabby had CKD and was a grazer, and Bandit has diabetes and is a gobbler, so I just fed them small enough meals so that they would eat their entire portion of food at once. Most of the time she ate PetGuard canned Chicken & Beef, which was a little higher at 14% carbs so I didn't want Bandit eating it. I fed them at opposite ends of the kitchen and stood between them to keep Bandit away until Gabby was done with her food. When I was gone for 12 hr stints I would freeze a food that they could both eat (Wellness Turkey or Merricks Cowboy Cookout), and set it in their auto feeders at opposite ends of the kitchen. That way Gabby had a good chance of getting through most of her food before Bandit would come finish it off. Honestly, I wish I had just done this for them all the time, but I used to get huge discounts on PetGuard through my local Co-op and I was pretty broke at the time. The PetGuard Chicken & Beef was really low in phosphorus, low sodium, and used human-grade meat so it was perfect for her kidney disease.

    Let me know if you need food suggestions for foods that are good to feed for both conditions. In the two and a half years from Gabby's diagnosis until the time she passed away (from cancer, unrelated to her CKD), her kidney values did not change at all.
     
  5. nwnews

    nwnews Member

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    Dec 11, 2011
    HI Alix, I have a cat with both CRF and Diabetes - she is in the moderate to severe CRF category. I use canned food that is low carbs/low phosphorus - so she eats Merricks Cowboy Cookout and Surf/Turf (actually those are the only two Merrick foods she likes). There is still debate on feeding a low protein/high carb to a CRF cat and whether or not it actually helps keep their kidneys from getting worse. I have found a supplement that I swear has kept Sitka's CRF stable for a year - its called Azodyl. Its a bit on the spendy side ($35.00 a bottle) and has to be kept refrigerated (make sure you buy it from a company that ships it in ice packs like 1-800-PetMeds). Sitka's creatnine was at 4.8 when I started giving her Azodyl and it actually dropped to 2.8. Also giving subq fluids can definitely prolong your kittys life because the fluids flush the kidneys. I think if you use Azodyl and subq fluids it doesn't matter as much on the protein content as long as you are using a quality food. Jan
     
  6. oscarandlucy

    oscarandlucy Member

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    Apr 22, 2010
    Julia,
    Do you happen to have the carb and phosphorus values for PetGuard Chicken & Beef?

    I too am trying to balance a diet controlled diabetic (3 years this week!!!) with early kidney impairment.

    Thanks
     
  7. Julia & Bandit (GA)

    Julia & Bandit (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Sure do--and I'm throwing in the Fish, Chicken, and Liver and Premium Feast flavors in for good measure. I obtained these values from the company in Aug. 2010. Honestly, I wouldn't feed the PetGuard to a Diet controlled diabetic. There's Rice Flour in it which makes it a bit high in carbs for diabetics. The fish is 7%, but I'd be hesitant still to feed it because 1. It's fish and you don't want to feed that every day, and 2. It still contains rice flour, which can make carb-sensitive diabetics have issues.

    Have you tried Merricks or Wellness? Both have lower phos, lower carb flavors. Bandit eats Merricks and they have 3 or 4 flavors that are lower in phos and carbs (Cowboy Cookout, Surf n Turf, Grammys Pot Pie, Before Grain Beef, Before Grain Turkey). The Grammy's Pot Pie is 8% carbs, but it doesn't have any grain like the Petguard so I've found it' doesn't raise Bandit's BG (for some reason he can have things that are 8-10% carbs as long as there is no rice, but something that's 7% carbs with rice in it will send his BG up. Here's the updated food chart with recent phosphorus values: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8Uu8g1u8Su9YTgxNGE1MDItM2MyMC00Y2Y3LWI4ODMtMzhkYTkxOGM4NThk/edit (note that the fat/protein values for the Merricks before grain turkey are accidentally switched around). Here's a link to the store locator for Merricks: http://www.merrickpetcare.com/locator/, and Wellness: http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/store-locator.aspx. EVO also has some low phos, low carb flavors, but the really high fat content upsets Bandit's stomach. You can try that, too if your cat doesn't have issues with that sort of thing: http://wtb.naturapet.com/?new=true

    Petguard Values:

    Chicken & Beef:
    Prot.: 37%
    Fat: 48%
    Carbs: 14%
    Fiber: 1g/100kcal
    Phos: 141mg/100kcal

    Fish, Cx, Liver:
    Prot.: 35%
    Fat: 57%
    Carbs: 7%
    Fiber: 1g/100kcal
    Phos: 195mg/100kcal

    Premium Feast
    Protein: 42%
    Fat: 44%
    Carbs: 14 %
    Fiber: .94 g/100kcal
    Phos: 244 mg/100 kcal
     
  8. kse

    kse Well-Known Member

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    Feb 10, 2011
    I am now dealing with CRF and Diabetes. I have read about Azodyl, but was told the capsuals are REALLY big and hard to get into the cat. I am curious how hard it was to get your cat to take them. Did you put them in a pill pocket?

    Thanks!
     
  9. Linda and Crash (GA)

    Linda and Crash (GA) Member

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    Jan 5, 2010
    Your kitties are rightly named. I laughed at the picture of dinnertime that you drew. :)

    We had the same food issues with Crash when he hit the early stages of CRF. We finally settled on Wellness Chicken and Turkey flavors, and Merricks Cowboy Cookout and Surf and Turf as the middle of the road foods.

    I also got some Aluminium Hydroxide and added the powder to the food to help pull out some of the phosporous. His creatnine numbers remained pretty much the same with that added to the diet, but it was about $50 for a giant jar, and gritty when put into his food, but tolerated well. Here's where I read about it: http://www.felinecrf.org/phosphorus.htm ... um_binders

    When the nose cancer really started to get bad, I ended up letting him eat Fancy Feast diabetic food again. His BG numbers were good til the end, but I think the change to FF caused his CRF to accelerate. I would not recommend FF.

    Hope you find the happy medium for your kitties.
     
  10. max&emmasmommie

    max&emmasmommie Well-Known Member

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    Mar 7, 2012
    Maybe some renal support herbs would help for when your cat eats the other cat's food? My vet put my cat on a Feline Renal Support pill made by Standard Process, a solidago pill and Rehmannia Eight tincture when Max was diagnosed with CFR. I have been so overwhelmed with the diabetes that I havent had time to check out the two pills and whether they are good or bad for his dual conditions, but Rehmannia Eight is supposedly good for the kidneys. I think that any help his kidneys can get would be good. I'm careful about the subQs because I read on www.felinecrf.com that those can be hard for the kidneys to process and you have to be careful not to overdo it with a CRF cat.
     
  11. Karen and Flo

    Karen and Flo Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    I put this on another post, but a vet at Vetoquinol, who makes Azodyl, said it's fine to mix the contents of the capsule with wet food, as long as kitty eats it quickly, so it remains cool (and don't mix food with hot water, duh). She also said they came out with a new capsule that is half the size, but I haven't seen it anywhere.
     
  12. nwnews

    nwnews Member

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    Dec 11, 2011
    On the Azodyl - yes the capsules were a little on the large size - my trick is sliming the capsule in baby food and Sitka just swallows it without a blink. However, I just got in 2 bottles of Azodyl and yes the capsules are smaller - about half the size they were before. I was actually going to call the company because I thought maybe I got a bad batch so I'm glad to see the other post that this was actually planned (saved me a phone call). Azodyl has kept Sitka's CRF stable for a year now so I'm sticking with it. Jan
     
  13. Mouse

    Mouse New Member

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    Apr 10, 2012
    I'm in the same boat with three CRF kitties and one of them diabetic. Maus was in remission on Fancy Feast Classics until I switched him to Natures Organics and then to Wellness Adult Turkey for his CKD. I thought those would be ok for his diabetes but his bg is in the high 400s and 500s when before it was always below 100. I've changed Maus to Royal Canin DS44 but have just found out that it is contraindicated for Kidney Disease and now I'm considering Purina DM Dietetic Management. (A great feline crf site, http://www.felinecrf.org/diabetes.htm#diet, mentions that for diabetic/CRF cats.)

    All of my cats are taking all day and all night to finish eating now (they just don't like their food enough) and so have to remain separated from me, diabetic Maus and my leukemic dog Scout. My other three cats (2 are CKD) are eating Wellness Adult Turkey but they don't really like it, (but they like it better than Natures Organics and Evo 95%).

    Is Merricks an alternative for all of them, CKD and diabetic? Is Friskies Special Diet? Anything else? How much do your cats like those foods? Does anybody have any idea how we can ever be all together? I'm disabled and mostly bedridden so I hardly get to be with any of them but Maus.

    I'm afraid there isn't an easy answer for me either.
     
  14. Julia & Bandit (GA)

    Julia & Bandit (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Welcome! I would recommend you start your own thread and give a little background like what type of insulin you're using, etc. Wellness Turkey canned is a low carb food, and so are the Nature's Organics, so I don't the food is what's raising his BG. However, it doesn't hurt to start with something else if those are the only ones giving you higher numbers.

    The good news is that there are commercial foods that are good to feed for both conditions. You simply need a low carb, low phosphorus canned food, preferably without byproducts (higher quality protein sources are easier on the kidneys). Keeping your cat as hydrated as possible is key to managing the disease, along with low phosphorus foods, so you'll definitely no dry food at all (if you're feeding any). Mixing water in with the canned food is one good way to help with hydration. Many people also find that cat drinking fountains also encourage cats to drink more. Anything you can do to get moisture in your cat is important.

    Here's an updated food list with the values for several premium foods: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B8...MzhkYTkxOGM4NThk&sort=name&layout=list&num=50. You're looking for something with less than 10% carbs and less than 250 mg/kcal of phosphorus. The foods I would suggest are Merrick's Before Grain Beef, Merrick's Before Grain Turkey, Merricks' Cowboy Cookout, Merrick's Surf & Turf, Wellness Turkey, EVO 95% Chicken & Turkey, and Blue Wilderness Duck. The Merrick's was a huge hit with both my cats (including my CKD kitty), and it's what Bandit (my diabetic) eats now.

    If those are out of your price range (although I would strongly urge a food without byproducts, keep in mind that it's still cheaper than the prescription food), the next best thing to feed are the low carb Friskie's Special Diet flavors. These are Turkey & Giblets and Salmon Dinner--make sure they are the ones that say "special diet" on the can, though. PetSmart carries them, and some grocery stores. Here is an updated list of just the phosphorus values for many commercial foods. They can be cross referenced with Binky's chart for carb values if there's something on there that you want to feed. On this chart, you're looking for something that is less than 1% phosphorus (these values are on a dry matter basis, not mg/kcal): http://www.felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm

    Do NOT use Binky's list for phosphorus values--the carb values are still ok to use but the phosphorus values are really out of date, and some things that were low on that list are now ridiculously high in phosphorus. You can cross reference the carb content from foods on Binky's list with the phosphorus values on Tanya's canned food list, however.
     
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