02/16 BuddyM: AMPS 77 | +3 60 | +6 69

Mariette said:
Previously:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/02-14-buddym-amps-81-5-69.243134/

Sadly the +9 bumber is still not budging without a 2am snack. @Marje and Gracie I'd still like to hear your thoughts on night cycle feeding times if you're around today.
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I’m sorry I missed you yesterday. Theoretically, we don’t like to feed after nadir because it slows down the action of the insulin. We do the +9 feeding to see if the pancreas is working and it drops the PS. But, I can see your reasoning that if it will do that at +9 for three hours later, why not at +6 for three hours later and drop the +9? In fact, when you did it two days, it worked. Coincidence? I don’t have a clue but we have not “typically” fed other than the +9 to drop the PS or, during an OTJ trial if the PS is blue, feed and recheck three hours later to see if the BG has dropped. Buddy insists on being very special.

At this point, we are back to experimenting to see if that was a fluke on those two mornings or not. But that has you getting up in the middle of the night twice. Honestly, those blue numbers at +9 don’t get me too worried. In other words, it all depends on how much you want to answer the question. In terms of looking at similar numbers for a cat in remission, I still wouldn’t get too upset over a blue BG in that range he’s had them in.

Options:
1. Don’t worry about. After 7 days at this dose, if he stays in the same kind of numbers, reduce the dose to 0.1u.
2. Try the +6 feeding again.

What do you think?
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I’m sorry I missed you yesterday. Theoretically, we don’t like to feed after nadir because it slows down the action of the insulin. We do the +9 feeding to see if the pancreas is working and it drops the PS. But, I can see your reasoning that if it will do that at +9 for three hours later, why not at +6 for three hours later and drop the +9? In fact, when you did it two days, it worked. Coincidence? I don’t have a clue but we have not “typically” fed other than the +9 to drop the PS or, during an OTJ trial if the PS is blue, feed and recheck three hours later to see if the BG has dropped. Buddy insists on being very special.

At this point, we are back to experimenting to see if that was a fluke on those two mornings or not. But that has you getting up in the middle of the night twice. Honestly, those blue numbers at +9 don’t get me too worried. In other words, it all depends on how much you want to answer the question. In terms of looking at similar numbers for a cat in remission, I still wouldn’t get too upset over a blue BG in that range he’s had them in.

Options:
1. Don’t worry about. After 7 days at this dose, if he stays in the same kind of numbers, reduce the dose to 0.1u.
2. Try the +6 feeding again.

What do you think?
Click to expand...

Thank you for your input Marje!

I agree - it's not great getting up twice to feed. It's definitely not something I would like to do long term.

I thought if it will help click the numbers into a lower level overall I'd be more than happy to do it. But I do realize that reducing the numbers overall should really be the job of the insulin. It's just that somehow Buddy barely seems to notice the insulin at this dose. The food has a much larger impact on the numbers than the insulin as far as I can see.

It's almost like the 0.1 to 0.25 increase went by unnoticed. Same with drop to 0.1. But maybe with these tiny increases it's the same as reducing in the tiny increments? The body gets used to it and compensates?

I can forgive an occasional bump over 100, but at night he runs above 80 most of the time. Do you think that's something we should be concerned about?

Here's the little one working hard at his day job:
 
Mariette said:
Thank you for your input Marje!

I agree - it's not great getting up twice to feed. It's definitely not something I would like to do long term.

I thought if it will help click the numbers into a lower level overall I'd be more than happy to do it. But I do realize that reducing the numbers overall should really be the job of the insulin. It's just that somehow Buddy barely seems to notice the insulin at this dose. The food has a much larger impact on the numbers than the insulin as far as I can see.

It's almost like the 0.1 to 0.25 increase went by unnoticed. Same with drop to 0.1. But maybe with these tiny increases it's the same as reducing in the tiny increments? The body gets used to it and compensates?

I can forgive an occasional bump over 100, but at night he runs above 80 most of the time. Do you think that's something we should be concerned about?

Here's the little one working hard at his day job:
Click to expand...
I love his videos!! I was telling my sister about Buddy. She’s in TX where it’s bitterly cold and she has a small group of community cats she cares for. She’s got those extreme weather huts with heating pads in them. She would love to get the cats inside and I told her how you’ve done with Buddy.

Food does have a job in keeping the BG in check in diabetic and non diabetic cats. And there is not too much difference between 0.1u and 0.25u....probably a few drops at most. As much as we want Buddy to go OTJ, I have seen a few cats get down this low and just not be able to get totally off insulin or, if they did, they couldn’t stay. If you haven’t seen China’s SS, it is very interesting.

I wouldn’t worry about the 80s or 90s at night. His body doesn’t know the difference between 60 and 90. Normal is normal.

So....it’s really up to you whether you want to mess with the extra feeding or grab some sleep and just see how he does and what we do after 7 days.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I love his videos!! I was telling my sister about Buddy. She’s in TX where it’s bitterly cold and she has a small group of community cats she cares for. She’s got those extreme weather huts with heating pads in them. She would love to get the cats inside and I told her how you’ve done with Buddy.

Food does have a job in keeping the BG in check in diabetic and non diabetic cats. And there is not too much difference between 0.1u and 0.25u....probably a few drops at most. As much as we want Buddy to go OTJ, I have seen a few cats get down this low and just not be able to get totally off insulin or, if they did, they couldn’t stay. If you haven’t seen China’s SS, it is very interesting.

I wouldn’t worry about the 80s or 90s at night. His body doesn’t know the difference between 60 and 90. Normal is normal.

So....it’s really up to you whether you want to mess with the extra feeding or grab some sleep and just see how he does and what we do after 7 days.
Click to expand...

That's amazing work that you sister is doing to take care of the outdoor kitties right now. I always think of the animals in extreme weather. It's so tough on them. When you're trying to help more than one soul it must get a lot more difficult to keep them protected.

I actually bought Buddy one of those outdoor pods with a heating pad when he was still wild. He never even poked his head in there. I think he must have gotten trapped somewhere at some point because he was super suspicious of anything that looked enclosed.

What puzzles me is that Buddy's numbers are pretty much the same as before I started him back up on insulin. He has lower AMPS numbers now, but I'm giving him the snack at +9. And the dose increases I've done hasn't really changed his numbers either. o_O

Of course he pops me a 103 for PMPS tonight. He did eat about an hour before so it might be a food rise.

We'll see how the next few days pan out. Play it by ear. I might introduce the 2 am snack again, but I'm still a bit on the fence about it.
 
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