1/16 Latte AMPS (+13.5)- 233, PMPS (+11)- 521

yesterday
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2668

It's amazing how things can flip for her so quickly.
pmps+3- she got up eating, walking around, bright eyed, playful, happy!
pmps+3.75- 185

Took our evening bath around +5, but she got up and left twice. The second time she never came back. Then I heard it. Got out of the tub to check on her and vomit spewed everywhere...her throne, the floor, my bed.

+6- 133 She was drinking so much and crying in a different way - almost like she was in pain.

I gave cerenia and laid on the floor with her next to her water bowls until I woke at 4am and moved to the bed. I didnt wake again until +13.5 :cry:

I noticed a weight recorded on her labwork that did not seem right....7.11lbs. She was just 9.4 at the vets on Jan 2nd. I thought maybe they were using an old weight. She's really been eating quite well, considering. No way has she lost that much weight. I decided to weigh her after vomiting, but also after drinking a lot of water. Her weight was 8.15 on my scale. She IS losing weight...a lot, and quickly. I feel horrible that i have not been weighing her regularly and checking. I thought she was doing well, so I kinda skipped that part of our week lately.

So now Im an hour and a half late with shot. Numbers are not terribly bad...in fact pretty normal a.m. numbers. She is not getting a good start to eating this a.m. I may have to use cypro, but Im afraid she wont be able to keep any food down.

I pick up a new med today for her metabolic acidosis. The MA can cause weight loss, vomiting, back leg weakness,etc...all things she is experiencing. I just hope that she will comply and take this medicine....and that it IS the solution to part of our problem, without making anything else worse (increasing potassium).

Wish I had a more joyful morning to talk about...sorry. Hopefully things will improve as we move further into the weekend and beyond.

 

Re: 1/16 Latte AMPS (+13.5)- 233

I am sorry it is not a good morning for Latte.
I hope the new meds make her feel better. :YMSIGH:

 

Re: 1/16 Latte AMPS (+13.5)- 233

(((Carolyn & Latte)))
It sounds like it's been a tough evening and morning. I hope Latte tolerates the new medication and she starts to feel better quickly and keeps eating. (I'm thinking baby food for that sensitive tummy.)

 

Re: 1/16 Latte AMPS (+13.5)- 233

What a rough night for both of you. I hope the meds go down easy and do the trick.

 

Re: 1/16 Latte AMPS (+13.5)- 233

Sorry to hear Latte's feeling under the weather; I can relate to your also feeling badly too.
I know you are doing all you can, and you can be sure that Latte knows that too.
But there is no time better than now to see the positive because it's there if we look.

I would say just look at those numbers; even though late, they are not horrible, right?
She did start out feeling pretty good, that's something else good.
And finally, new meds today. That's promising and may well be just the ticket to non stop playfulness, even when you may be wanting to sleep and not play!

One day at a time and do all that we can, and hope for a good day.

Scratches for Latte and I hope she can keep a bit of nourishment down.

 

Re: 1/16 Latte AMPS (+13.5)- 233

I'm sorry to hear she had a bad night. We can only keep on going when this happens, and hope for a better day the next day. Maybe her new med will be what she needs to turn the corner. Paws crossed.

 

Re: 1/16 Latte AMPS (+13.5)- 233

Oh my....what a night.....I am so sorry Carolyn....can you cathc some sleep today...
maybe a nappypoos with latte later?
I hope the meds help her today...poor babies...
((Carolyn & Latte)) hugs to you both today...thinking of you...
You are doing such a good job -- keep up hope that things will get better....

 

Re: 1/16 Latte AMPS (+13.5)- 233

+1.5- 250 something
+3.25- 290

She is definately not feeling well, the late shot messed her up a great deal, or I screwed up on her shot in another way. Im guessing its the first. She has very little food in her...maybe 1/2 jar babyfood. tried a little more just a bit ago, but after a lick she gagged like she was about to vomit - so we stopped.

If I let her hide in a closet...she would. She looks comfortable in her spot under the piano, but does not seem to be able to rest/sleep.

If she is high like this at +11 can I shoot her early to get her back on schedule? Or can I only do 1/2 hr early no matter what?

 

+4.5- 356

Im getting scared of whats coming our way, all together.

At this point, Im thinking of just shooting @ +10.5. I honestly dont see how, with numbers that are steadily going up, it would hurt. At this rate, she is going to hit a "high" on the meter before she even gets her pred tonight, let alone next shot.

 

Re: 1/16 Latte AMPS (+13.5)- 233 - PM shot - time????

Carolyn, See what the numbers bring, but a +11 will most likely be just fine.

Sending many feel better vines to Latte and fingers and everything else crossed that the new med works.

 

Re: 1/16 Latte AMPS (+13.5)- 233 - PM shot - time????

Hi Carolyn
Sending your sweet Latte (and you too) lots of feel better vines and that
you get back on track.

 

Re: 1/16 Latte AMPS (+13.5)- 233, +9- 461

+1.5- 259
+3- 290
+4.5- 356
+6.5- 340
+9.5-461

I feel utterly helpless over here.

She ate *maybe* 1/4 can wellness this morning at most.
A total of 2/3 jar babyfood...during day
Maybe a dozen or so pieces of kibble, along with some treats in the last hour or so.
Tried a ff appetizer, but decided she didnt like it.

Vet refused, yet again, dispensing a pre-filled syringe of cerenia. He wants me to bring her in for a weight on monday to see if she has a true weight loss (I can already tell you on my scale, she does...at least 1 lb). University pharmacist told me I should get ahold of her specialist on Tuesday and ask him to prescribe pre-filed syringes of cerenia. its not a common practice, but they will do it if necessary. She said it is a quality of life issue in Latte's case and does not understand why her vet wont give it. He is so good and works with us so well...but this ONE thing he wont budge.

Im going to shoot an hour early (+11 - 6:30pm central). I may delay pred an hour or so, as Im quite certain we are going to see our first 500's already tonight.

I wish there was something I could do. I really dont understand any of this.

 

Re: 1/16 Latte AMPS (+13.5)- 233, +9- 461

(((((((((((Carolynn))))))))))) ((((((((((((Latte))))))))))))

Sending good thoughts to both of you. Asking Lya to send her feel better, and start eating Juju to Latte. She seems suddenly ok now... but we're still going slow.

Now just worrying about you guys and hoping the new med gets in her, and makes her feel better. Worst feeling in the world when you know they aren't happy, and are miserable, and there's nothing you can do that hasn't been done.

If I can do anything to help - holler. cat_pet_icon

 

Re: 1/16 Latte AMPS (+13.5)- 233, +9- 461

(((Latte))) (((Carolyn)))

 

Re: 1/16 Latte AMPS (+13.5)- 233, +9- 461, +11- 521 Shoot now?!

Anything I should be concerned about, other than the fact that I just got sick myself?!

 

Re: 1/16 Latte AMPS (+13.5)- 233, +9- 461, +11- 521 Shoot now?!

yes. i'd shoot now.

 

Re: 1/16 Latte AMPS (+13.5)- 233, +9- 461, +11- 521 Shoot now?!

(((Carolyn))) Plenty high enough to shoot early.

 

Re: 1/16 Latte AMPS (+13.5)- 233, +9- 461, +11- 521 Shoot now?!

hang in there ((Carolyn)) will be thinking of u and ((Latte))

 

hey, has she started potassium citrate? do you know the ingredients?

eta: if she has, when did she get it today, in relation to insulin +hour? did she have food on board?

 

She had the potassium citrate @ +10. She foamed at the mouth and gave me a look like it was about to kill her. I tasted it and it is 100% gross - all salt. After she stopped foaming and I wiped her mouth, I washed it down with a small bit of water. Then she ate a treat. Im not sure if I can keep giving it to her. I will try one or two more times. If we get the same results I may have to stop it until i can talk with dr. polzin. I cant risk having her vomit because of it right now.

I offered babyfood after shot...she only took a few licks, so for the first time in a few months I had to syringe feed. I gave about 10mls to see if she would keep it down. I will try another 10 in about an hour. From there I will offer food in some form every hour or two. If she is not interested I will syringe feed. Its wellness chicken/low carb. If she can keep everything down until a.m., THEN I will give cypo at amps tomorrow. I dont want to give it now and have her vomit.

I have to give the pred, but I would like to wait until at least +2 or 3, in hopes that her numbers go down a little bit.

If she was having a pancreas attack, would this be cause for her numbers to increase so much despite insulin? This is not purely a bounce, late, or a fur shot. It just cant be.

All I can do is what I can do here at home. And this cant go on for more than a few days before I consider this suffering. Im home through Tuesday, other than a few errands here and there. So I can do whatever I can with the resources I have. But come Tuesday, if its continuing I will have to start making plans.

 

It says potassium citrate/citric acid...
I dont know what else is in there. I can try calling and see if an ER dr would know. Otherwise I cant find out until Tuesday when they reopen

 

what brand is on the label? maybe we can find it online. (eta: although her BG's were rising by +9, so this probably isn't causing her BG to rise, i guess).

so you gave it at AM+10? and she was in pain before that, at AM+6? i'm asking b/c pat e. on the yahoo crf list once wrote that K hurts if given on an empty stomach.

iirc, you'd said it was mild MA? not severe? is baking soda an option in lieu of K citrate? tanya's site lists baking soda for mild, K citrate for severe MA. (i really don't know anything about MA - so run it by dr P or jess or someone who knows - i see someone did answer you on the other yahoo list.)

 

Yes, pancreatitis could do this....has she ever been tested for it? You do give her most of the treatments already, outside of pain meds (unless you do give pain meds now...I don't know).

((((((((Carolyn))))))))))((((((((((Latte))))))))))

 

I called the U/ER and they didnt know. Referred me to poison control, but it costs money. Will have to wait and just call Dr. Polzin on Tuesday.

BG's have been rising since pmps +6 or so, last night...and have not stopped. Sorry, have not filled out ss today...but will soon.

All of the things you mentioned are good for me to ask or clarify with Dr. Polzin. You will find most articles on tanyas site written by him - especially when it comes to acidosis, phosphorus, and diet. I really trust he knows what he is doing in latte's case...or should I?!?!

Mild to moderate acidosis, is what the summary said.

Btw...amyalyse was 2597 (555-1600). he said it was related to the pancreas. WIth such a high number he expected she would be more symptomatic. I was told not to put too much weight in the number if she was not acting abnormal. At the time I spoke with him I didnt realize she had lost a pound. She had vomited a few times over the week, but then 2 days later it got worse. Im just really wondering if that is what this is about....her pancreas. Does the insulin not work during an attack? Would I need to increase the dose, when and how would I know? I cant imagine her new record breaking BG is making her feel any better.

Cassandra-
No pain meds as of right now. U/S one year ago showed immflamation of pancreas. No blood tests, to confirm because like you said - there is nothing more that can be done...other than pain meds. And right now I cant even do that ...it would require a trip to the ER and hundreds of dollars of MORE tests before they would offer anything.

She did get off her throne about 10 min ago to take a lap around the house and is now laying in the hallway (a favorite spot). Im going to mix up some food and see if she shows any interest.

 

i think you should trust him. but trust doesn't mean no questions. and vets are human. and latte does have multiple issues going on, not sure how much he has of the whole picture. never hurts to ask and clarify. plus, this is a partnership in caring for latte; he can't be there all the time, whereas you are. i'm sure he'd appreciate and understand if you explain that your questions are to help you understand and stay a good caregiver to latte.

insulin continues to work during an attack. but a common pain response is increased bg's. pain => stress => higher bg's.

when we suspected meowzi was having a cp attack, we tried giving her pain meds to see if she would respond to it. we didn't raise insulin, b/c she refused to eat. but the pain meds did their job, and her bg came right back down, and stayed in blue-green range throughout. i attribute it to 1) pain meds 2) extra SQuids 3) lower calorie intake (unfortunate, but it did keep her bg's low). not saying this is what you should do with latte - talk to her vet - but this is what worked for us. again, ecid.

she's not on sucralfate, right?

 

Amylase is a pancreas enzyme, but elevations in amylase and lipase in cats are not definitive for pancreatitis as they are in some other animals. The only test that would actually show pancreatitis is the fPLI or the Spec fPL. More on amylase and lipase here:

Idexx CP Discussion
WSAVA/VIN Pancreatitis Info

This may be worth noting from the WSAVA piece:

Elevations in serum amylase may occur not only with pancreatitis, but more commonly from other gastrointestinal diseases, as well as from decreased renal clearance of this enzyme.

Your vet would not give you pain meds for a cat in Latte's situation without seeing her again?

 

I'm so sorry to read all this, Carolyn. I feel helpless, but I'm sending vines to you and Latte.

 

((Carolyn)) Thinking of you both tonight.... ((Latte))

 

I started searching for potassium citrate and it comes in a lot of different forms. Some of the liquids do contain dextrose. (My mom was on a prescription potassium supplement and the liquid is foul.) I also looked at Tonya's site. There are pill forms of potassium supplement and she referenced Urocit-K. If this is a possibility for Latte, it's a pill and apparently is also good for nausea.

Did you have this Rx filled at the U of MN vet pharmacy? If so, if you're up for a challenge, there has got to be an inpatient pharmacy that fills prescriptions 24/7. They should be able to tell you what is in the product that was dispensed.

I'm sorry you've got another ball to juggle. Hang in there.

 

Yes, I understand this. But when you are on a budget and have had an u/s that leads toward possible pancreatitis...then the amylase value...and now the symptoms (which have gone on and off for years)...the best I can do is assume that is what it is. If its between a test to tell me something we already know, or a med that will help her vomiting - I have to choose the med.

I did read those links yesterday...or similar ones. And ya, its always been her situation that it could be any one of her zillion conditions causing any of her symptoms.

No, he would not give the cerenia injectible. I pilled her last night at midnight, so coming in for a shot today administered by them was not even an option. Unless of course he wants to meet me at the clinic at midnight tonight! I will just work with dr polzin on it and leave it be. But it really does disappoint me and does not help us out on a long holiday weekend.

Tomorrow is Sunday, so only way I could get some pain pills are by going through the ER. and the ER (at the U) would not just give them...they would have to run tests, exam, etc to determine she needed them - despite her being seen there somewhat regularly. Bureaucracy.

uuuuhhh...carafate? Nope. We have some, but she has a history of vomiting every time I give it her. So there it sits, along side a pharmacy of meds.

Thank you for talking with me. Ive felt pretty alone since midnight last night. Im exhausted and expect to get very little sleep as I continue to try and get food and medicines in her. And lets not forget lots of head and chin skritches.

BTW...I never thought I would be SOOOOOOOOO happy to see a BG in the 400's!
+1.5 - 449, 10ml more wellness. Will be testing again @ +3 and giving pred.

 

Just letting you know I'm here, too. Don't know how to help, but huggies and lovies from Esse and me...

Best-
Michele

 

Certainly hear you there. If the u/s showed it and the symptoms are there....

It disappoints me too, for you. With everything Latte has going on, you should not have to be pulling teeth to get any med that would help her, IMHO. I'm so sorry, Carolyn.

I always forget that not every vet is open on Sundays like the one we go to is. And I avoid the ER like the plague too.

 

Re: 1/16 Latte PMPS (+11)- 521,+1.5-441, +3- 330

Its almost as if she knows she should not be up there so high and tries to get out of it so quick!
I gave pred at this point. Not sure how much it will mess up amps, but the alternative to breaking my meter from a potentially ultra high reading if I gave it earlier would not be good! ;-) I felt it shaking with that 500 pmps reading :lol: ...oh wait! That was my hand! ohmygod_smile

If a drop like this is not getting her antsy and eating, even drinking...she is not feeling well.

Will offer/encourage more food in 30 minutes and syringe feed again if she refuses.
She did take her pred (compounded treat) with enthusiasm. So she has 'some' interest in food.

Thank you those who are keeping eyes on us and offering support. Sometimes it feels like she ( or we) dont belong anywhere because of the fact that she belongs everywhere w/all her issues. Allowing us to be here no matter what the issue leaves me feeling a little less helpless.

 

(((Carolyn & Latte)))

What a tough day you've both had...so sorry to hear it.
Thinking of you both & sending lots of vines!

 

So sorry you are having so many worries for your Latte. I hope she starts feeling better soon. Sending lots of healing 'feel better' your way...

Judith and Thomas

 

Carolyn,
Shadoe and I know only too well about those 500 numbers; we so hope they come down as soon as possible. I wish I had something to offer you and Latte other than say we can relate in some small ways, and hope for some relief for Latte.
I know it is so frustrating and upsetting when no eating is happening; yesterday and today, I had about a dozen cans of all sorts of foods open, just trying to find something that Shadoe would eat.

I hope Latte does a bit more eating soon and can feel a bit better till you can get to the vets.
Shadoe and I will be thinking of you two and wishing you well.

 

Just wanted to check in on you both before I go to bed.

I'm so sorry you're both going through all this right now. I'm glad her bg's are falling, but sorry it's one more thing making her feel yucky.

If you need anything - call. I'll leave my phone on.

Hope you both get some rest and that this passes soon... ((((((((Carloynn))))))))) ((((Latte))))

 

((Carolyn)) We are so glad that you are here! And... so do care how Latte is doing!
You do juggle so many things with her.. and you are a dedicated and caring bean to all her needs! Sooo don't even think of leaving here.. Your stuck with us ;-)

Sending feel good vibes to Latte...

 

+3- 330
+5- 349 (2hrs post pred)
+6.75- 360 (+3.75 post pred)

Since pred was given a little later, I really dont know how this will play out (if she will drop or not past this). It did not raise her a whole lot, and she should be just passing the point of it rising much more in the next hour. Im totally bracing for 3-400's by amps, tho.

She attempted a bit of wet, with treats on top around +5, and just got excited about kibble (with treats, of course). She is trying. She wants to eat. And, she drank a little for the first time today.

Whatever caused her to feel icky today assisted in the increase of BG to record breaking levels. My guess is the BG didnt help her feel any better either. Kind of a viscous circle.

Time for a few hrs of sleep (in my BED), and the hope that today was just a bad blip with a better one just around the corner.

Again, thank you everyone.