1/16 OZZY AM Cycle Reduction Earned; PMPS 120, +1 124, +2 99, +3 89, +4 76, + 4.75 85

Poor Ozzy has a lot going on right now. Is the local vet's office your own vet or an emergency clinic? I'm just wondering if he might be due to go in anyway (you were on the fence about it due to his recent digestive issues)-- Marje, what do you think about just going ahead and taking him in? [Jo: I'm not a pro advice-giver in this kind of situation, so listen to Marje/others over me]

 

No vomit yet this am. The gravy went through him obviously so he got diarrhea.

 

24-hour emergency hospital. it's down the street, literally 2 mins away.

 

He might be like Sienne's Gabby and have an allergy to the gravy. I also could not give it to Gracie.

Test number yet?

 

Bob is trying to get another test. BRB...

 

+4.15 = +48. Tiny increase. He just ate seconds ago.
More food?

 

I'd rub more honey on his gums and retest in 20 since he already ate LC with honey.

 

Your hubby is doing a fantastic job, I know tensions are a bit high, but you both are doing the right thing and making sure Ozzy is safe. Tell your hubby he is doing a fantastic job managing the low numbers(maybe he earned a new power tool for the garage after today's episode )

Most normal vets can get him on a drip to bring his numbers up if needed and my vet stressed that those cases are priority one and bypass any waiting room. It doesn't necessarily need to be an emergency clinic, but if that is the closest one it is preferable if your normal vet is further away. If you use the normal vet, alert them that you are bringing him in so they can start getting things ready. 40's are low, but definitely not life threatening.

Flat is much better then dropping right now, at a 48 I would be monitoring at home and not heading to the vet yet, especially if he is nibbling on his own.

 

Hubby just gave him a little more honey.

 

Ok, Bob is with him and gave him a little more honey on his gums. Next test in12 mins.

 

If you have a cat that is reticent to eat, won't let the CG test, is howling, has diarrhea and or vomiting, has not been in these low numbers yet and so we don't know how they will respond, going to the vet keeps them safe. Remember with a 20% meter variance, his number is basically the same.

 

I'm glad Marje is here to offer some advice, she has helped many of us in similar situations.

 

What is the NUMBER that is so low that he has to go to the vet? I don't know why we didn't think to give him kibble. Hubby said that's next for sure..Ozzy won't mind either.

 

He is still eating and is letting Bob test, he was just fussy once. Sometimes he gets like that with Hubby because Hubby gets frustrated with him. Ozzy can feel it.

 

I don't think there's a cutoff number-- this really is an ECID thing. What Marje is talking about is more assessing the full situation-- behavior, time in the cycle, everything.

 

Bob says he is licking his paws and is starting to look like he feels better.

 

Kibble is fine but it might take longer to work and will stay in his system longer but if he will eat it better, that's ok.

The number to go to the ER depends on many things. Gracie was in the 20s and 30s on several occasions but she came right up. She also was eating, was allowing us to test, and I know how she responded to food.

 

There isn't one specific number. Some cats respond to carbs better then others and are easier to get out of low numbers.

kibble takes longer to start bringing numbers up, gravy or syrup work much faster which is what we want with lower numbers.

Good to hear Ozzy is feeling a little better. I'd be testy too if I couldn't get my afternoon nap and the humans kept poking my ears every 20 minutes too!

 

+4.5= 55.

more honey!?

 

Bob just gave him a little more honey again on his own.

 

How about a couple of tsp of LC with a drop or so of honey and retest in 30. If the gravy is making him sick, we want to lay off that.

We call this lather, rinse, repeat. Test, feed, test again and so on. But we need to be careful to not overfeed and make him sick.

 

Please see above post. It is possible that he might bobble around these numbers for a while since his depot is evidently full. Don't panic. Lather, rinse, repeat.

And please reduce his dose tonight to 1u

 

Lucky Ozzy!!

 

Bob said he looks better. Next test is in 10 mins.

 

My entire morning at work is ruined! I am so glad I was able to lock myself in my office. Guys, I was supposed to go to a classified area from 10-12 (last 2 hours) and not have access to my phone and left Bob to deal with this by himself. Could you imagine????

 

Yes. It might be time to teach Bob how to use the board. The first year Gracie was diabetic, I worked full time and Mike had to deal with it....board and all. If Bob is willing to do it, fantastic!

 

Glad he is continuing to look better. Might be a good idea to give him the basics on posting here in case it happens when you are unavailable.
After today's ordeal, I like Marje's reduction suggestion(for Ozzy and you and the DH's sanity). Seems like Ozzy is a little tougher to bring back up from low numbers then some other cats.

 

Yikes, this isn't good to learn. What do most cats do??

 

Hubby actually has a cousin he used to work with every day who is a type 1 diabetic, so he's no stranger to DM. Well, maybe to FD, but not DM in general.

 

+4.75= 65.
Ya, he is on his way up! Thank Goodness!!! That was scary! Especially since I was not there!

 

It's better to know especially moving forward. It is an ECID thing. It just means that Ozzy isn't as sensitive to carbs as some cats are and your plan changes accordingly. It might mean adding a little honey earlier then others would, using MC instead of LC, etc. It is not bad, just very good information to have when working on getting his numbers up.

How long since his last food/honey? You want to make sure he is coming up on his own and not just the honey, but he is headed in the right direction considering today's adventure.

 

I actually don't think he was hard to bring up. When we have cats getting HC for three or four hours in a row and not moving out of the 40s, it just tells me the cat is really ready for a reduction. Next time around on a lower dose, he might be just fine. Ozzy has been responding well in past cycles to LC food.

Great job, Bob! i don't want to overfeed but would like him to stay up. Do you think he would eat a couple tsp LC? I would do another test in 30 after he eats to see if that will work.

 

Been watching from the sidelines
Congratulations on the reducie

On a housekeeping note, when you and DH have caught your breath and stopped shaking could you update the ss
Might be time to instruct DH how to do that too

FWIW George sometimes responded better than others to carbs it depended on a number of factors, point in the cycle, how full the depot was, and whether he really really wanted a reduction.

I agree with Marje, next time on a lower dose he might just come up more easily for you.

 

Yes, I'll do it tonight when I get home. It was up to date from when I left this am.

 

I literally swear I knew that today he needed a reduced dose. I almost gave him one. I don't know, I just felt like in his pattern he was starting to really come down. No crystal ball here, but I did sort of predict it yesterday about what his PM shot would look like last night and this am. I just had a feeling....

 

+5.15= 59.

He's dipped back down a little. Told Hubby to give him some more LC food. This kitty sure is dramatic!

 

He's pretty flat...I'd still go with LC since he's getting close to nadir. At least two good tsp. Retest in 30.

 

Here's the rundown so far with an update:
AMPS= 101
+1 =84
+2= 53 (HC given)
+2.5= 61 (LC)
+2.75 = 55 (HC)
+3.5= 59 (HC)
+4=42 (honey)
+4.15=48 (honey)
+4.5=55 (honey)
+4.75=65 (no food)
+5.15=59 (LC)

I can't update the thread title any longer. Ozzy was tested so much in his AM cycle that he blew out the character count. Will post updates in the thread from now on for this cycle.

 

BTW Guys, my head hurts!!! What a whirlwind of fear, anxiety, adrenaline, concern, frustration....oh my!!! I want to pass out right now!

 

I think you need some chocolate

 

Or some honey...

 

Can I be honest here...I was really hoping we would be able to steer Ozzy up with food and get him back to safe numbers and not have to take him to the vet. The reason is because Ozzy is the first patient to use Lantus at this vet hospital. The vet was leery of us switching but agreed to let us. I want to post an update to him soon and show him how great Ozzy is doing on lantus and encourage him to let other folks try it who are willing to home monitor. If Ozzy's first encounter with the vet again is him being rushed to the emergency room all hypo, the vet is going to think we are crazy and think his initial instincts to let us use this insulin was correct and try to get us to switch back.

 

Here's the rundown so far with an update:
AMPS= 101
+1 =84
+2= 53 (HC given)
+2.5= 61 (LC)
+2.75 = 55 (HC)
+3.5= 59 (HC)
+4=42 (honey)
+4.15=48 (honey)
+4.5=55 (honey)
+4.75=65 (no food)
+5.15=59 (LC)
+5.75 = 82

YA!!

 

Just take out some of the numbers in the title that are relatively flat. You don't need them all.

 

Super job!!!!! I'd give him an hour to test and lay off the food.

 

ooooooooooooooohhhh, apparently I just graduated from "Member" to "Well-Known Member".

Not sure how I got that new title...maybe because in the last 3 days we shot our first blue, next cycle first green, and third cycle an almost hypo event. We've been through the ringer this week!

 

I just told Hubby exactly that!

 

Deep breaths, Jo. I'm just stopping in to give support. You're in great hands, and so is Ozzy. You can delete some earlier tests from your subject line to add new ones. I had to do that many times because I did one condo for both cats.

Congrats on the reducie!

 

I've been watching this drama unfold with bated breath! You did great, Jo! Thank heavens your hubby was home and willing/able to do all the hands on work. This dance is not for the faint of heart sometimes.

 

Thanks Kris.

I honestly need to know what we are to do next time if one of us can't stay to monitor? Hubby told me one of the pet safes did not open all the way and got stuck in the middle. He asked me how the hell the kitty was supposed to eat out of that if it didn't open correctly next time and he needed food. Good question.

This cycle taught me the importance of getting that +1 before I walk out the door (I almost didn't). But the lows could have been at +2 or +3, and then what would we have done? We wouldn't even know.

Marje mentioned that most cats rarely go into a true hypo. So then what would happen if we were not there and could not monitor and steer with food? His +4=42 was steered with food, so he may have dropped lower and sooner and I would not have been home for another eight hours.

What would happen? I really need to understand so I can make a decision on which protocol we want to stick with going forward. For sure Ozzy is going to earn another reduction in the future and I need to figure out how we can manage this with full time jobs.

 

Ok, I want to rant a little on the filter placed on my expletive. Now I understand this is a public forum and potty mouth words are not tolerated, but I just wanted to say that those four little stars do not adequately express how I was feeling at that moment of panic and fear. I mean, come on....how do you even know which 4-letter bomb I was dropping? It's not fair to make you guess.!

 

Watch it. You don't want to go from "Well Known" member to "Infamous" in one day

 

Uh oh...I'm just messing around.

 

LOL. I'll assume it represents all the 4-letter words I'd be saying if I were in your place. If there's a next time, I hope it goes much easier for having gone through all of this today. Anyway, it's great to see all of those recent blues!

 

Thanks Adrian! What made it the most stressful is that my husband was at home dealing with Ozzy while I was here at work an hour away giving him step by step instructions over the phone. He was getting stressed, the cat was getting stressed, and I was over here feeling absolutely helpless in the situation. It was very hard for me not to pack up my bags and just leave work. But I knew Hubby could do it. While it probably looked like I was freaking out here (I WAS!), it was important for me to be really calm with hubby and talk to him in a calm manner or he'd get more stressed and likely hang up on me or yell at me. I'm a firey Italian woman, so being 'calm' in a crazy situation doesn't normally run in our blood. Let's just say, it was difficult. I was exhaling a lot of carbon dioxide here and heavy breaths (it was weird actually) trying to push the stress out.

I just was over on your condo a few moments ago and left you and Chino Kitty a note!

 

This one is for you Hubby!!

 

Here's the rundown so far with an update:
AMPS= 101
+1 =84
+2= 53 (HC given)
+2.5= 61 (LC)
+2.75 = 55 (HC)
+3.5= 59 (HC)
+4=42 (honey)
+4.15=48 (honey)
+4.5=55 (honey)
+4.75=65 (no food)
+5.15=59 (LC)
+5.75 = 82
+7 = 83

So he is basically flat and staying the same. Wonder what the PMPS is going to look like??

 

Yes, I wonder. I would test him at +9.

To answer your question about what happens to cats who go low and there is no one there to steer them, I suspect that some cats' livers kick in and bring them up. While symptomatic hypos on Lantus are not common, I don't want to give you or anyone else the idea that they don't happen. They do.

One member learned the hard way about the value of testing when she came home to find her kitty, Baxter, who was on Lantus, in a state that she thought he was dead. However, he was still alive and she rushed him to the vet. He spent months in the hospital rehabilitating and still has residual seizures so it hasn't been easy for him. But she was not even testing.

Because you are, you will have to learn his patterns....when is it ok to shoot and leave with food down. When do you need to skip? Do you need to run him at a lower dose so you can safely shoot every 12 hours. Do you need to go to SLGS and take reductions at 90? These are all things you and Bob need to discuss and decide.

 

Wow...what a day you, Ozzy and DH have had!!

Great job Bob!!!!....You're a rock star husband!!! I think you deserve a T-Shirt!!

 

OK, I'm just coming back on after having to go away for a while, and now I have this image in my head of the next steering episode, sitting there with a jar of honey: "OK, one for Ozzy... and one for Mom! One for Ozzy... and one for Mom!".

Fantastic job today, all three of you!

 

Hahah! Love this!! I am going to cook him a big ole' yummy meal tonight!!

 

hahah! I probably could've used some honey, too. I felt like I was going to pass out. Do you know how nerve wracking it is to try to provide guidance over the phone and not be able to be there and help physically? It's awful.

OH WAIT.....THAT'S WHY YOU GUYS DO EVERY DAY! OMG. I FEEL FOR YOU!

AND APPRECIATE IT SO VERY MUCH!!!!!!

 

Hey give ur sweet hubby a big ole hug from me ....seriously

 

I will! When I get home!!

 

Haha....it’s the control freak in us women!!!

 

+9 = 97. So he's staying flat. Only 3 hours till PS... ???

 

I'd delete some of those mid day numbers and add dose advice? to the title. Hopefully some others can chime in before shot time. It's been a long day for you and the hubby to put it mildly.

 

For Uncle, I won't even consider walking out the door (or even planning my day for that matter) or going to sleep without getting a +2. He has had some hard core drops at +2 that wouldn't have showed up at+1.
If you have time, check out Uncle's SS on 1/8/17. The plus one was innocent enough, but but by +2 all the action was in full swing. There are a few more examples of that sprinkled around as well.
That being said, those are Uncle's normal patterns and ECID etc
When I started out , I had no idea how my life would change so drastically. I got pulled in to TR by the Siren's song of possible remission. I have completey rearranged my work schedule (and my employees have had to adjust as wel)l and am getting sleep deprived (as you know). I think it is important to be realistic about which method or protocol works for all three of you to keep everybody safe and sane(er)
Good job today, whew

 

He earned a reduction to 1u. Are you asking if you should shoot less than that?

Unfortunately, we just don’t know if he will do the same thing on 1u or not. Some cats hold reductions and keep plugging down the dosing scale. Others have to go up and down around the same dose a few times before a reduction finally holds. It doesn’t look to me like he will bounce but even if he did, with your schedule, I would reduce at his PMPS shot tonight.

Even if you had been doing SLGS, the reduction amount (0.25u to 1u) would be the same.

 

Thanks. I think I might be feeling this way, too. Need to think more. Gonna head home here in a bit (work day was a bust but still managed to get some impt stuff done). I'm SO tired. It's been a whirlwind last 3 days.

I don't get it...Vet sent us home with 2 U of vestulin. Didn't encourage home monitoring. I hear this all the time here. What happens to the cats of the folks who are not on this board and/or don't home test.

Any vet techs or vets here that can answer the question on how many cats they see coming in with hypo? Is it common? Do kitties really have powerhouse defense mechanisms? Or are there a lot of cats out there that are passing from this?

Today was my absolute worst nightmare come true with insulin and not being able to be home to monitor. I cannot thank my hubby enough for being there to support Ozzy and me.

 

I wasn't yet...I was going to save that question for PS time. But maybe I should now....??
I was definitely going to take him down to 1U tonight but Hubby is freaked out and said we are giving him way too much insulin and need to give him less. Tried to explain that .25U less is a big reduction (20%) when you are only dosing 1.25U.

 

That is correct. Maybe show him other SSs. You might also show him the TR protocol and point to the fact that while newly diagnosed cats have a reduction point of the BG falling below 50, long-term diabetics have a reduction point of the BG falling below 40.
Ozzy is making progress!

The protocol was built for safety and there are all of us watching over you all. You can certainly take him down to 0.75u as you hold the syringe. You can always take him back up.

 

Yes, I know it is a lot to process for your mind, body and spirit for both you and your DH.
I'm sure you know about this sticky regarding TR with a full time job.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...ion-possible-with-a-full-time-job-yes.129378/
Great info with others weighing in as well. There are a few important considerations for people like us such as "The hard part of managing tight regulation while working is the point at which the cat starts RUNNING down the dosing scale." and there is more.
I hope you can catch your breath and feel good about going forward.

 

WOW!!
Just reading this condo brought back so many memories!

All three of you are doing so great! @Marje and Gracie I swear you have been through so many rescues! So glad you are here.

Good going Ozzy your doing great! Bob does deserve a t-shirt and a Scotch!

 

+11.5= 113.

Do we only go down to 1U??? Less?

 

Whether you are doing TR or SLGS, the normal decrease for a reduction would be 0.25u so the new dose is 1u.

However, it's up to you and Bob if you want to shoot less. You can always increase the dose. None of us are in your work shoes!

 

Thank you, Linda!!

 

I am like seriously scared to give him any insulin at this point. I am home now and finally feel some relief since I got to hold my kitty and know he was ok. At work, I was in a meeting with my boss and was like a zombie. I was delayed in speaking (my employee was finishing my sentences), my eyes are blurry, my head hurts....It's so weird. Hubby says he think I might have been having a slight panic attack or High Blood Pressure. Never had neither before. .

Literally I just want to break down and cry. That was so stressful and scary and I could hear my kitty crying through the phone some cry I have never heard. He was in distress for sure.

 

PMPS=120. Eating now.

 

Shoot again in about 10 mins.

Think any of this was part of us trying to get back on schedule? Like his body interpreted the earlier shot as a dosecrease? We did it slowly.

 

Gave 1u at exactly +12. Here we go again. Ozzy is hiding. Besides being melodramatic, he's a big baby! Probably gets it from his mama.

 

@Adrian and Chino Never thought I would be praying for a bounce!!!

@Marje and Gracie Remember me wishing for when the blue PSs would come. Careful what you wish for! Those back to back lower cycles all happened in a row.

 

I don't think getting back on schedule affected his day today. You didn't rush it.

In a few weeks, you will look back on this day and realize how you've gone. I can remember telling Mike, "I will never be able to shoot below 150". But I did and five cycles later, I shot green.

The rather coincidental thing is that one morning, she was 248 at AMPS, I shot 1.25u and went to work and left her with Mike. At +2, she was 38 it was an all day pokeathon and she was 91 at PMPS. I shot 1u and she was green/blue until +8 and then bounced. She was on 1u for 13 cycles.

 

You,my dear, crack me up !!!!

 

Oh, poor , sweet Ozzy boy . Praying vines of peace to encircle him ( and of course mom and dad too) . You all have been thru the mill today

 

+1=124

 

I'd be prepared for a potentially active cycle likely due to the 1.25u depot.

 

Ohhh geez...

He is higher than his PS so I was hopeful this was a good sign things would settle down.

What are hypo symptoms besides low BG numbers (obviously before seizure and coma)? Hubby explained that today Ozzy was crying a lot non-stop and moaning, hissed at him and the other cat, he couldn't walk at one point (dead weight in the rear end)... Not sure what to make of this. He definitely was not acting normal.

If he pulls another low blue tomorrow am, I am going to seriously reduce the dose until I can monitor or maybe skip. My heart needs a break. I think I have PTSD after today.

 

Just got done skimming through your day! What a day!

One important point - the PetSafe 5 compartment feeder will only partially turn or not open IF the food tray is not fully seated in the base unit. When you put the food tray in the base unit, press the button that lets you rotate the food tray. Make sure it rotates normally, and if it does, it *ought* to open later when the timer goes off. We always did that every day and after we learned that trick, we never had it not open fully. Give that a shot and see if it works.

Whenever we shot something lower than normal, we set the feeder to open every 30 minutes for 4 times - 2 hours is usually enough to bring up the ordinary low numbers. You can put whatever carb food in it that you want.

Molly/Skooter had 2 of the timed feeders so hers could open 8 times. I thought that was brilliant and would've done it if I'd known about it sooner. It's just a bit of insurance - provided that Ozzy will eat from it. Some cats will seek out food when their blood sugar drops - that's something to try to notice with Ozzy.

The good news is that Ozzy is going down the dosing scale and holding the dose reductions. That is very good - hairy for you and your husband, but it's a good thing for Ozzy.

Great job handling everything - tell your husband the cat people think he did great today!

 

Cats can have different signs to show they have low numbers. He hasn't been that low for some time. Non-diabetic cats test in the 40's sometimes. It probably felt very different to him.

You can always skip a shot if you need to. He will recover from it. Just count it a furshot and get back on track with his next shot.

 

There is info on hypos, including possible symptoms, on the top of the "Basics: New to the Group?" sticky.

This is one of those ECID (every cat is different) things - I caught Punkin once in the 30's and he had absolutely no sign of anything wrong.

 

+2=99

Please don't let this be a repeat cycle. I am not up for it tonight/again.

 

Maybe try another canned if Ozzy is not ready for all raw (but he might be). I was doing the same as you, at first and mixing the FF in with the RadCat for a bit, but I decided to stop the FF after some tummy troubles (although Taffy has on/off tummy issues anyhow). i am only reserving the FF Gravy Lover's now for HC needs, but no more classic.

 

Taffy & Ozzy should start a Drama Club!!! Congrats on the reduction!!! I am so sorry that you had such a stressful morning/day and had to be away from Ozzy. But you guys got thru it all wonderfully!!! Your hubby did a great job!!! Wow!!! My BF could NOT/would not pull that off!!!

 

Jo

You can abort this cycle by feeding HC each time you give him food. It will likely keep the numbers up. It's not an uncommon thing to do after a reduction has been earned and so you can sleep.

 

Give Mama a break, Ozzy!!! She & Pops had a stressful day looking after you!!!

 

He is slowing down on this cycle, thank goodness.
PMPS=120
+1= 124
+2=99
+3=89

Only had LC foods tonight. His poor little ears look like chew toys after today. He had 19 separate tests today and sometimes (more than one time) it took more than one poke to get his ear to bleed enough for a test. Definitely the most ear pokes he has had in one day. Poor kitty.

Depending on where he is at PS tomorrow, we may give a reduced dose or skip just so all of us (kitty included) can have a break. We all have a little PTSD over here.

 

You need to do what is best for you all. I hope he flattens out tonight so you can all sleep.