1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 138 +4 69 +4.5 76 +6 99

Good morning, LL
Very happy with this AMPS #, but I DO have to work today & will not be able to monitor her.. do I shoot? I understand the ultimate goal is to shoot low #s & stay consistent but I have to go to work this morning & am not sure.

I will try to hold of breakfast & test again in 30mins (she has had a treat)

Thank you for helping us!! Have a beautiful, blessed day!!

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 QUESTION to Shoot??

good morning,Nicole!
I know you don't have data on shoot 'low' so it's hard to predict how Baby gonna react.
If it was me i would shoot with no problem.
When you test in 30min and #s are rising that means that baby is on the way UP - you can shoot and test at +1( if Your schedule allow!

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 QUESTION to Shoot??

Thanks, Bo & Jake! I am going to test her again in about 10mins & if the #s are higher, I am going to shoot.. just kind of nervous.. since she typically drops between 50-70 points after her shot... her +2 #s

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 QUESTION to Shoot??

when do You leave after shoot? (+)
Leave enough food out so she can help her #s!

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107

I held off breakfast for 30mins, retested & her BG was only 2 points higher. I went ahead & gave breakfast & her shot.
I can test again at +2.5 & see where we are at. I know to leave plenty of food out, I will just be nervous at work all day. I do know enough though that Baby spikes if I skip shots & do not want to see that. Hopefully I made the right decision to shoot.

WCR
Too early to tell, we get up at 3:45am to shoot

**I will comment that Baby is getting harder & harder to BG Test, she hides & I sit on her to even test. Is this normal? It has gotten harder in the last 48 hours.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107

Sorry Nicole,that Baby give You hard time for testing.
try to pet her,masage her ears before test. iknow it's so hard but believe me it's gonna get easier.
She is still new DX and You have a chance to get her out of the juice. I wish I found this board on earlier.
Bo

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107

Thanks, Bo & Jake! I appreciate your help this morning.. I am going to test again in a few hours.. hopefully I dont see a HUGE drop. I will keep you updated!

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107

Morning, Nicole!

As this is a very low preshot for you so far, you will want to get a +1 test to start. After that we can figure out what other tests you may need before leaving.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107

Cassandra and Sasha, good morning! I got nervous & let her have some HC, I will test again at +1 to update everyone.. I am nervous but think the decision to shoot & not skip was good - I feel comfortable... but scared of course!

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107

You can take away the HC if it is still out. We normally reserve that for only numbers below 50 or lower, or if there is a huge drop. No need to be scared. Just get the +1 and we'll go from there. I'll be here to help if you need it.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107

I put the HC away now, will see you at +1, I have to leave for work at close to +3.
I appreicate you being here for us.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107

Wow Nicole, pretty AMPS for Baby! A little excitement for a monday morning huh? cat_pet_icon

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 +1 168

Ronnie & Luna!! Very exciting Monday morning.. but in a good way! ;-)

I did give HC after shooting, because I got nervous. I can breathe now that I have seen the +1, do I test again at +2, or at +2 & 45mins (when I leave for work)

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 +1 168

I would get a +2. HC reacts differently depending on the cat. Baby is going to bounce a little from these numbers too, so we could be seeing both.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 +1 168

Nice hooting this morning Nicole. Leave out a little LC fudz for her to nibble on while you are gone. They know when they need to get some fudz in them and as long as there is something for her to eat, she will eat it and bring her number back up slightly. Remember the old saying here in LL "shoot low to stay low" I'm sure she'll be just fine. Can't wait to see where she goes today but am very happy to see these blues on the ss.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 +1 168

In the future when this happens, there are the options we choose from:

1) Don't feed, test again in 15-30 minutes and repeat until you're comfortable that Baby is rising or surfing, and then shoot full dose

2) Shoot a BCS (Big Chicken Sh*t) dose, which can be as much or as little as you are comfortable with at the time depending on the preshot level

3) Skip the shot

Stalling (option 1) has the least shed impact on the next few cycles. On your first low preshot(s), we normally want to reserve this for when you will be home to monitor and collect data. No worries about it this morning, though - Baby will be fine as long as you leave food out for her.

The second and third options have more shed impact, as you have seen with skipping shots before. The BCS dose is more preferable to skipping entirely, but both can be used depending on your comfort level and ability to monitor.

Looking at your spreadsheet, it appears that Baby had a pretty steep drop going at PMPS +2. When you see a drop like that, it is best to get at least one more test in to see if it levels off. The +2 test should be a similar number to the preshot number, if you feed at preshot time. If it is much lower like it was last night, it shows that the cycle is going to have some action. It does appear that Baby has a fairly rapid onset and +2 drops are normal for her, but do continue to watch that.

One of the mantras here is *Shoot low to stay low*. That means that usually the lower the preshot the flatter the curve. A preshot of 100 will often have different action than a preshot of 300. That is why many of us can shoot low preshots and the kitty remains relatively flat through the cycle (once liver training has been completed). You can look at Sasha's spreadsheet to see a good example of this.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 +1 +2 163

As always, thank you to each & everyone of you for being here for Baby & I this morning & always :YMHUG:

WCR, Baby has had mini meals (Raw Rabbit, Wellness Chicken, Some HC Gravy)
She is playing & very good (Baby is ALWAYS busy, so this is normal.. has always been playful - even before Lantus)

We did go with option 1 this morning, waited to feed & test again in 15minutes, the #s were not much different - in retrospect - I probably should not have shooted since I will not be home today, but my decison was based on:

I will be here up until +3, in the past Baby does go high if I skip a dose. The only part that scared me was the +2, because she typically drops so much between Pre shot & +3.

I am leaving out food & have the timed feeder going off at +6 & +8, I will be home for the PMPS.

Am I missing anything? Any further suggestions? o

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 +1 168 +2 163

Sounds like you have a great plan in place for food and Baby will be just fine. You did great this morning! Hope you have a good day at work!

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 +1 168 +2 163

Congratulations to Baby for such a wonderful AMPS BG :RAHCAT You are doing great. Have a good day at tbp---Baby will be fine!

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 +1 168 +2 163 QUESTION

I have a question, I am at work now & looking at Baby's SS, I don't see that she has ever raised her #s at +2, I know ECID, but does this make sense, BG raising after injection given? I just don't notice that pattern for her.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 +1 168 +2 163 QUESTION

Webber's never go up at +2 either. Are they supposed to?

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 +1 168 +2 163 QUESTION

Did baby have any of that hc you left out for a while?

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 +1 168 +2 163 QUESTION

I think a rise at +2 is possible but generally doesn't occur. The +2, if your kitty is playing by the "rules," is close to your PS number. If it is higher than PS, it's likely that you will be having a cycle with rebound. If it's lower, it is likely to be an action cycle if it's a notable drop.

Great morning for Baby and you did great!

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 +1 168 +2 163 QUESTION

I had HC out for about 15mins & she only ate the gravy - none of the food - I am happy the # got greater (since I am still a newbie) but just found it odd.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 +1 168 +2 163 QUESTION

I am now thinking I should go home for lunch to test? What are your thoughts? I am just scared that her #s did not go down when I was home (I am thankful they went up) but am wondering if they big crash is going to happen when I am here at work? I only ask, because I did not see any drops after the injection & that is not normal. It is not convenient to drive home, I left plenty of food out… I don't want to be paranoid.. Any thoughts?

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 +1 168 +2 163 QUESTION

Hey Nicole,
If you have the ability to go home and test or check on baby, then by all means do it! Especially if it will help ease your mind a bit.
I do it all the time when Im working a job close enough to home.

Im not saying you have anything to worry about. Just that sometimes we have to do what we have to do to reassure ourselves.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 +1 168 +2 163 QUESTION

Carolyn & Latte, thank you! Your post did help me.. Because I opened Latte's SS & see that sometimes her #s go up after her injections too.
I think I am going to just chill.. Since she was not in a dangerous range when I left & there is plenty of food out :mrgreen:

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 +1 168 +2 163 QUESTION

Nicole,
I think its great for you to look at other's ss! Ive always found it incredibly helpful to read other condos to see how people make decisions and reasoning behind advice they are given. With Latte's ss, do bear in mind her pm cycle is not the norm. She takes a steroid, given at shot time, which often raises her BG. Mornings she drops and stays lower. Of course all of this is generally speaking, and always has room for exceptions. :mrgreen:

I think whatever you wind up doing today is just fine. If you go home and check on baby, it might actually help you see that everything is okay and worry less of the day, and in the future. On the other hand, if you DONT and you get home later to find baby okay...then you will also build confidence. :lol: See- there is no right or wrong! :mrgreen:

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 +1 168 +2 163 QUESTION

i think part of the reason why some cats' +2 number is higher is because of a lingering food spike. People usually feed their kitties a hearty meal right around shot time, which contributes to a higher +1 and sometimes even a higher +2 for some cats - but not all. So maybe Baby doesn't have a huge BG jump after she eats LC food - or her PS BG # was influenced by a pre-shot snack or treat. I didn't realize in the beginning that you shouldn't feed anything for about 2 hours before getting the pre-shot #, that it can take that long for a food spike to go away for some cats.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 +1 168 +2 163 QUESTION

Laura is correct about the food spike. The +1 should be higher if you feed at shot time (more sensitive cats will have greater food spikes), and the +2 should be about the same as the preshot, although some cats hang onto their food spikes longer than others.

This is what a typical Lantus curve will look like if food is given at shot time, as shown in the New To Lantus and Levemir sticky:

+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (may dip around +10 or +11).
+12 - PreShot number.

Nadir can happen at any point in the cycle, although in many cats it is near the mid-point.

ECID, which is why we collect data over time to see what kind of cycles our own cats actually have and make decisions keeping that in mind.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 +1 168 +2 163 QUESTION

Also, please keep in mind that because of the HC given at shot time, this cycle will not be typical and the data from it will be different than a traditional LC cycle. As I mentioned previously, the numbers were on the way up probably somewhat because of the HC and also because a bounce at this range is normal in a kitty at this stage of the sugar dance.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 +1 168 +2 163 +7.5 230

Cassandra and Sasha, you have been extremely helpful! Thank you for the detailed data, I really appreciate you taking the time to support & give me valuable information. As a newbie this is priceless. I must confess & tell on myself - I wimped out & went home to check on her during lunch. That was the 7.5 reading I just got 230! I do work from home tomorrow.. So no worries there..but hope Baby does not bounce too much.. Her liver sure needs that Liver Training School.. I want her to just come down & STAY DOWN in a safe range.. I know we all want that for our sugar kitties

We shall see what the evening brings….

 

Re: 1/18 Baby AMPS 107 +1 168 +2 163 +7.5 230

Looking at Baby's SS, it looks like her Nadir is +2 or +3, is this possible?

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238

Baby did just fine today!

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 (& 15mins) 138

WCR Baby is nothing less than the very best.. eating the entire time (never does seem to show a spike at +2 or +3 .... I honestly think that that is her NADIR)
BUT.. a 100 points in 2 hours..... ADVICE for tonight........ uggh.. not again!!

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 (& 15mins) 138

(((Nicole))) I bet you are scared. Test again in 30 min?

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 (& 15mins) 138

Not scared yet.. but geez.. I can only take so much of this :YMSIGH:

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 (& 15mins) 138

I had to chuckle -- Gabby does this all the time. If you are nervous about the rate that Baby is dropping, give a little bit of LC food -- 1 or 2 teaspoons. This will help to slow the drop. You can test in either 30 min or an hour. From the 911, I suspect you'll feel better if you test in 30 min. Remember that you want Baby to reach numbers below 50 for a decrease. Take a breath. Look at Gabby's SS if you want to see some drama.

ETA - you might want to take the 911 out and just note in the Subject line that you want advice.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 (& 15mins) 138

no worries, this is about the same as last night, only a touch lower. You can feed 2 tsp of low carb food to see if that slows the drop, and test in 30 minutes.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 (& 15mins) 138

Sienne and Gabby, Libby & Lucy.. thank you!
I just get scared.. because I look at what the norms are & Baby is always a +2 or +3 drop after eating the whole time.. I do not know if it is possible.. but I really think this is her nadir? Thank you for helping me.. I want to save those precious ears.. I will test again later.. she grazes & hat eaten.. I am trying not to be paranoid.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 (& 15mins) 138 NEED ADVICE

If Baby is under 150 AMPS, do I shoot? I am work from home tomorrow. Please help us.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 (& 15mins) 138 NEED ADVICE

Given your initiation, if I were in your shoes, I'd be apprehensive too. Just remember that was an accidental overdose and that Baby was asymptomatic.

Generally, setting a "no shoot" number isn't something we do unless you have a petsitter or someone else caring for your cat. The reason is that every situation can be different. What is true for Baby today, may be very different from next week so the same rules will not apply. There is usually someone here who can help you to puzzle through what the best alternative is. Remember, the option that has the least effect on the shed is to stall, don't feed, and retest in 15 min. to see if you have a rising number.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 138 +4 69 QUESTION HELP!

Help! :shock:

I have fed LC & she is grazing & being VERY BUSY (normal)
Do I go ahead & feed HC now? I cannot stay up all night!!! Newbie freaking out!

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 (& 15mins) 138 NEED ADVICE

OK, now you're seeing some action! haha_smiley Maybe you will see some green tomorrow?? What better time than when you will be home to catch it??? :mrgreen:

I know it can be nerve wracking the first couple of times, but it's what you are actually shooting for (no pun intended!) And the first step on the way to going to the Falls, if possible.

Nice hooting today, by the way! :RAHCAT

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 138 +4 69 QUESTION HELP!

OOPs ohmygod_smile I see while I was writing you got the green number today! Do you have medium carb food? Fancy Feast with gravy is medium carb. Just asking, I don't know if you should give it to her yet or not. Medium is preferable to high unless they are hypo...less bounce.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 138 +4 69 QUESTION HELP!

Test at 15, and let us know what the number is.

Breathe.

Don't freak out.

Best-
Michele

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 138 +4 69 QUESTION HELP!

Now that I've said that...

How long can you stay up tonight? And how long ago did you give LC? If she's still dropping at 15, give her 1 teaspoon of HC gravy (the juice from the HC food), and test again in 15 minutes.

And don't forget to breathe...

Best-
Michele

ETA: When did you give her HC? I saw that on your ss, and didn't know what time. It's fine if you did, but I'm just wondering how long ago it was.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 138 +4 69 QUESTION HELP!

Thank you all! Baby grazes.. so eats constantly.. but does not overeat ever. She just had 1/4 can low carb.. I will test again in 15..
I can stay up all night if my Lil Drama Momma needs me too... it is nerve wracking... cuz I just can't do this all the time.. I have a job, etc... I will do all I can do.. but cannot face this situation of going too low much more!! Okay.. Breathe.. I am just scared.. but am Blessed & Thankful that her #s are good.

P.S to answer your question HC was given about 16 hours ago

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 138 +4 69 QUESTION HELP!

Breathing is really a good thing. LOL. You'll be all right; and yes, I know how hard it can be on us new kids...

What are her numbers now? Grab a test and see...

Best-
Michele

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 138 +4 69 QUESTION HELP!

Yay for the green!
Just popping in to say that you are doing a great job Nicole ....
Look forward to seeing the next number! Exciting :mrgreen:

Feeding the LC was a good choice..

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 138 +4 69 QUESTION HELP!

Nobody wants to do this all the time and most of us have jobs too... think of the possibility of diet controlled diabetes.... what do you think of that?

Consider this also... at least you are HOME! There is no better time (with a few exceptions) to get data to be applied for when you are at work.

it's normal to be scared. I almost needed a defribrilator the 1st green Tizon got.

Whatever you fed Baby (LC or HC) pls make sure to make a note in your SS.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 138 +4 69 +4.5 76

Thanks, PJ!!! :RAHCAT

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 138 +4 69 QUESTION HELP!

I may be dense here... but I am not sure what you mean by that? To me, that is a rhetorical question, with an obvious answer - we all want Diet controlled Diabetes.

Anyway.. her # went a bit up.. I will test again at +6 then hopefully going to bed.. still not sure what to do with an AMPS # of low again..

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 138 +4 69 +4.5 76

What she's talking about, "diet controlled," means no insulin needed, just food to control the blood sugar - in other words, remission. Which is what we are all shooting for, and working towards, and hoping for.

76 is the current number? Sounds good to me...surf, Baby, surf!

Grab a +6, and let's see where Baby is...

Best-
Michele

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 138 +4 69 +4.5 76

Thanks, Michele.. yes, I understood the meaning behind Diet Controlled.. No Insulin needed.. but wondered why the question was asked? Obvious answer is YES, we all want that.

Surf Baby Surf is Right!! Thank you for all your help!! Will get a +6 & hope Liver does not kick in LOL

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 138 +4 69 +4.5 76

Nicole - what time zone are you in and what time is +6 for you?

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 138 +4 69 +4.5 76

Looks good!
Fingers and paws crossed for a good sleepus number :mrgreen:

Let's see some 80's... I like the 80's..

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 138 +4 69 +4.5 76

dang new board. i posted this big long post to you when you were at 69 and i guess i hit preview instead of submit since it is not here, lol.
oh well. was just saying don't worry, feed 2 bites of regular food and all is well (but much longer post).

see how easy it is to control numbers? remember she is only on a tiny dose of insulin, there is no 5.0 units on board, and little bits of insulin are so easy to control with food. you can make the numbers do whatever you want. (as you saw this morning how few licks of HC gravy sent the numbers soaring). okay. all is well. you'll be in bed by a decent hour, k?

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 138 +4 69 +4.5 76

I am same as you Paige.. Central.. +6 will be 2 hours from now.. 10pm :mrgreen:

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 138 +4 69 +4.5 76

today has been a perfect day for Baby. You shot low and had great results with the daytime cycle, then tonight you caught her green number and controlled the number with low carb food. The nice thing about that is that now you know low carb can bring her up, so you know that SHE can control the lower numbers if she gets them when you're not home, because all she has to do is eat a little of her regular food. See how much you have learned today? :mrgreen: I hope this all makes you more comfortable.

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 138 +4 69 +4.5 76

What she said...well done.

(Are you breathing yet? LOL).

Best-
Michele

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 138 +4 69 +4.5 76

jojo and bunny MISS YOU!!!
Wow.. I bet you didn't think you would already be seeing lil Drama Momma again.. after being up all night with her! Hope you are feeling better & beautiful blessings wished your way :YMHUG: o

Libby and Lucy So true!! Isn't there a saying like.. hind site is 20/20.. you never see it while you are in it!
I still don't see it being OK.. but will feel better at +6
Baby & I love your support & encouraging words.. Baby is great.. but I can be a mixed up mess & thank each & every one of you for helping me in spite of myself!


(((Breathining))) cat_pet_icon

 

The Sugar Dance has definitely begun & Baby has the lead on me...

Thanks again for all the support, wisdom & kindness.. I.. Baby & I appreciate you taking the time to care for us (((HUGS)))

Anxious to see what the AM brings...

 

Looks very good for Baby!
Nice sleepus number..

Hope you wake to some more great numbers in the AM..

 

Nicolle,you are doing so great!! You got off to a scary start, but these green numbers show good things--Even I look at a low green number on my meter & say "OK calm down, you are in control"..
Yes, if you have lc, med carb & HC foods, you are in control..Just try to get through each day, knowing you are doing the very best for your cat. I just discovered FF elegant medleys work for MC for Moonie very well..
Will you worry sometimes, yes..Will you think about Baby, like I worried about Moonie today being out for a long time, yes..Does it become part of your life, yes also.
You are doing a great job of managing your cat's FD..Be proud of yourself & dont beat yourself up for being nervous or scared..We ALL were, & are sometimes...But we learn to live with it..
Look at your beautiful cat!! That's the reward!! cat_pet_icon dancing_cat

 

Re: 1/18 Baby PMPS 238 +2 138 +4 69 QUESTION HELP!

SO TRUE! :lol:

"Comfortable and scared." Oh yes. Nicole, this is just the first part of the ride, like an amusement park ride that starts out scary to get your adrenalin going. After these early swings, the ride gets calmer, and you'll get a LOT more sleep.

You're doing GREAT! :mrgreen:

 

I'm with Libby. You are learning a great deal about how Baby's system handles her numbers and how you can steer those numbers.

I'm gonna give you some homework. Think about the choice of LC vs. MC vs. HC foods and how you want to use them to steer numbers. You were getting suggestions to use HC. The time I break out the HC is if Gabby's numbers are below 40. I'm not a big fan of cutting a cycle short with HC. You need to decide where your comfort zone is in light of how Baby responds to carbs. A day like today gives you that kind of data.

 

Completely agree with this. Usually we use HC food at very low numbers only - under 40 or 50 for most people unless you are seeing a huge drop and are leaving the house or a similar situation. Cutting a cycle short with HC in normal green numbers just isn't necessary in most cases. Many times, LC will work.

Also, what is low carb, medium carb, and high carb for cats is different for each cat. For Sasha, her LC is 4-6%, MC is 10-12%, and HC is 16-18%. For other cats that are more carb sensitive, 12% may give them a substantial bump. For yet other cats, a 20+% is needed for HC. Many people here use the FF grilled or sliced (with gravy) as a HC food - it is 16-18% and gets the job done in the majority of cases of low numbers.

As you gain more information on food response, you may choose to feed LC at certain numbers where other would use HC. It depends on your comfort level and how Baby responds. Also depends on where in the cycle the low number comes. If you have a 44 at +2, then HC is more necessary than a 44 at +9, because there is much more of the cycle left with insulin action.

You did very well today and collected lots of good data. I'll be around for your AMPS if you need any help, and I think Heather will probably be on then too. Every time will get easier. :smile: