? 1/19/2018 | Darwin - S. Boulardii Q's?

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by Tasha & Darwin, Jan 19, 2018.

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  1. Tasha & Darwin

    Tasha & Darwin Well-Known Member

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    Condo

    AMBG=72

    Darwin had a recheck x-ray and vet visit today, and things are looking better in his chest - yay! He's feeling great, and his appetite is back to normal now. We still need to do another two weeks of his Clavamox and Orbax (boo!), but at least we don't need to add steroids (phew!).

    He's still having diarrhea, but I'm thinking it's likely from the antibiotics. He's back on FortiFlora now, so hopefully that'll help firm things up.

    Sending lots of vines to all the kitties in need! :bighug::bighug:
     
  2. carfurby

    carfurby Well-Known Member

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    Feb 19, 2012
    Great update for Darwin. Sending more prayers for his recovery.
     
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  3. Alicia & Maggie (GA)

    Alicia & Maggie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Wonderful report on the D-man! Well, other than the whole diarrhea thing... ;)
     
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  4. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    So glad he's doing better, and there's no need for steroids!:bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  5. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    Have you considered using Saccharomyces Boulardii? It worked wonders for my kittens, and @Marje and Gracie swears by it. I gave them about 1/6 of a capsule when their stool was loose, then backed it off a touch to 1/8 when it got better. Marje could tell you the best dose for Darwin.
     
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  6. Tasha & Darwin

    Tasha & Darwin Well-Known Member

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    It's funny you should ask because I just happened upon a thread about this, and was wondering if I should give it a try. He's got to stay on both antibiotics for two more weeks, so I'd like to help his tummy out if that's what's causing the diarrhea (which I suspect it is). He doesn't seem to have urgency to poop, and he is not nauseous, but it's far from ideal to continue to have diarrhea for the next two weeks o_O

    I have a link to the information about Saccharomyces Boulardii, but wondering if it's something I can find in a store vs online so I can start it more quickly? Do you happen to know if it's relatively tasteless? Darwin will eat his Lysine mixed into a meal, but I am hesitant to ad anything that would put him off of his food....
     
  7. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    I don’t see a condo for today so I’ll respond here. I believe you can buy Florastor at Walmart and it has S. boulardi. The therapeutic dose is 1/2 cap twice a day but I’d start at 1/4 cap twice a day and if he tolerates it well, increase after a few days. If he’s got bad diarrhea, you might want to try the “emergency stop” method.

    From RawFeedingForIBDCats.org:
    The S. boulardi with MOS, while the best, does have a bad taste. I use the Renew Life S. boulardi but I have to order it.
     
  8. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    I have tasted the brand I get (doesn't have the MOS) and other than a bit yeasty, it's pretty tasteless.
     
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  9. Tasha & Darwin

    Tasha & Darwin Well-Known Member

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    Is this the one use @Marje and Gracie? I thought he was a bit better, but diarrhea in the box tonight. I doubt he'll eat the one with MOS as everything I've read says it's very bitter, and he's pretty particular about eating anything unusual. I'm hoping he'll eat the regular one with his dinner (when he loves the FortiFlora I add).
     
  10. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Yes. Personally, I wouldn’t use Fortiflora unless he won’t eat his food without it. It’s not really a probiotic and it has really bad ingredients like animal digest.

    In addition, probiotics made specifically for animals are generally not strong enough to do the job. Human probiotics are much more beneficial for them due to the higher number of CFUs.
     
  11. Tasha & Darwin

    Tasha & Darwin Well-Known Member

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    I agree with all of this, and my dog is on human probiotics daily, but I had read quite a few articles linking Fortiflora (specifically) with help in controlling Feline Herpes. Since I got Darwin onto canned food, and have been able to give Fortiflora; his Herpes symptoms are significantly more controlled. I did wonder if the studies done just hadn't been done on any other probiotic formulas, and whether that had nothing to do with Fortiflora itself, but I have definitely seen results. Maybe he would do just as well with a proper probiotic like I give my dog? o_O
     
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  12. Julia & Bandit (GA)

    Julia & Bandit (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I've had good results with Fortiflora controlling Bandit's recurrent GI issues. Animal digest isn't a great ingredient, but it's not harmful, and I did not have as good results trying out a human probiotic with him. So, Fortiflora it is for us. I don't give it all the time, only when his GI issues act up.

    It can be a delicate balance keeping everything together that's working with some cats, so if the Fortiflora is working well for and you don't want to mess with it, I think that's fine. If you want to experiment to see if a human probiotic work as well for you (and would likely be less expensive), you can always go back to the Fortiflora if you're not seeing good results.
     
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  13. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    I use L Lysine for my kitty with feline herpes.

    Animal digest is harmful if it comes from euthanized animals who have been euthanized with pentobarbital. Unless you can get your vet to get a statement that the animal digest used is from USDA certified meats, not just a USDA certified facility, then I wouldn’t bet on it’s safety. It isn’t worth it to me. Purina has a bad track record of taking short cuts.
     
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  14. Julia & Bandit (GA)

    Julia & Bandit (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I understand it's icky to think about, but there's no way a packet of Fortiflora could possibly contain enough pentobarbital to have any sort of effect on a cat.
     
  15. MJW

    MJW Well-Known Member

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    Yum had horrible liquid poo from an antibiotic in November/December. S. Boulardii and pumpkin finally conquered it. I think I needed both together.
    I bought the S. Boulardii with MOS at Whole Foods, their house brand. I started out smearing it on her paw (thinking she would hate it), but when I later put it in her food she didn't object. I don't think it's bitter.
    I posted about her diarrhea in several threads. I gave her a 5 billion CFU capsule twice a day, and 1/2 teaspoon of pumpkin twice a day.
     
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  16. Tasha & Darwin

    Tasha & Darwin Well-Known Member

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    That's good to know about it possibly not being bitter. I just ordered some without MOS online, but if it doesn't do the trick; I will try with MOS, and see if I can get my picky boy to eat it. I know he won't touch pumpkin! He is skeptical of anything new (when he ever dropped low, he would be weary enough not to eat his FF classic with a few drops of the MC or HC gravy mixed in!) - silly boy!
     
  17. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    It’s certainly up to you but, for me, no amount of pentobarbital is worth it and a little here or there adds up.

    After 11 cats and all the conditions they’ve had, I’d like to think I’ve learned something about what they are exposed to and how it effects them. My current two will benefit from that. They get very clean, species appropriate raw diets and probiotics, digestive enzymes, etc. No antibiotics unless there is an absolute dx bacterial infection requiring it, and very few supplements (e.g. L Lysine to keep Tobey’s herpes at bay and he hasn’t had an outbreak since Gracie crossed).
     
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  18. MJW

    MJW Well-Known Member

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    Cats!!!
     
  19. Tasha & Darwin

    Tasha & Darwin Well-Known Member

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    Darwin is on L-Lysine too, and I suppose I actually cannot say whether it's the addition of that alone that has helped control his Herpes. It's definitely possible.

    I agree. And quite honestly, I am not a fan of giving my money to Purina anyway. I'd rather find a better alternative.

    Love this! This is how my dog is fed, and it pains me that Darwin is still eating canned food vs raw. It's so easy for Arya (my dog) who will literally eat anything, and will readily accept high-quality probiotics and digestive enzymes in her meals - have to work on Darwin accepting better things!

    Once I am sure his appetite is not going to drop off again - the plan is to get him over to a raw diet. I know he's going to be stubborn, but if I got that kibble-addicted cat off of dry food; I think I can do anything :p

    Thanks for all your help!
     
  20. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

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    I'm battling Tyler'd diarrhea right now but only giving half that amount of s.boulardii. So, it is OK to give two 5 billion capsules a day?
     
  21. Julia & Bandit (GA)

    Julia & Bandit (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I'm just saying that not everyone has the luxury of discontinuing it when their (my) choice is using Fortiflora with a very small risk of harm vs the very real risk of the effect of increased blood sugar and decreased appetite due to GI discomfort. If Tasha can discontinue it in favor of something else that works for her, that's awesome. I wasn't able to do that, and with no less than 5 serious chronic conditions I'm currently dealing with Bandit right now, it's a delicate balance. We all make the best choices we can.
     
  22. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    I have a kitty with IBD who suffered for two years with chronic, non-stop diarrhea. The thing that finally cleared it up was s.boulardii in conjunction with Slippery Elm Bark (SEB). I use NOW brand s.boulardii from Amazon, and for "emergency stop" I use a full 500 billion capsule mixed in food (it's tasteless) twice a day. Once the diarrhea stops I lower it to 1/2 capsule twice a day. At the time she started it, my cat probably weighed under 6 lbs. She has been diarrhea free for a year, now, as long as I watch her diet closely. If she does start to have loose stools I immediately put her back on the maintenance dose (1/2 cap twice daily) 'til it clears up, usually within a day.

    Slippery Elm Bark can also be very helpful. I add it to her food with some extra water mixed in - I do think it has a very mild taste but I don't think she notices, and she's pretty picky. Just be careful if you use the SEB not to give it within 2 hours of any other oral meds as it can inhibit the absorption of the meds.

    I always add extra water to all my cat's food. It's especially important to keep them well-hydrated if they have diarrhea.

    :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  23. Tasha & Darwin

    Tasha & Darwin Well-Known Member

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    Jun 22, 2017
    Thanks! It should be here tomorrow from Amazon so I am hoping it helps! I've never tried SEB, but always heard great things. Darwin has always been very good in the stool department - one good thing. I'm sure it's the two antibiotics that are causing his diarrhea. I do add some water to his food anyway - if I add too much, he won't eat it :rolleyes::rolleyes: He's always been a good water drinker at least.

    Thankfully, he doesn't seem to be "sick" with the diarrhea. I'm finding only one or two of his stools daily (which is about normal), and he's not desperate to going outside of the litterbox. Plus, he's eating great. Hoping the S.B. helps!
     
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  24. MJW

    MJW Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. I was also giving her slippery elm bark for morning foamy vomit due to kidney disease. I attribute the diarrhea cure though to the S. boulardii and pumpkin.
     
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  25. Stacy & Asia

    Stacy & Asia Well-Known Member

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    You can do it! It was an arduous process to get Asia off kibble and on to raw, but her teeth extractions warranted wet food only and it was near the time of all the melamine pet food horror so I did my homework before deciding on BARF (Raw diet). I just had a real problem getting Toki to switch from Stella & chewys to radcat. She refused to eat s&c after they added a new ingredient and she refused to eat radcat too! I finally had luck with putting parm cheese on Toki’s food. :rolleyes: But she is a cheese bandit, if she can find any cheese, she wants to eat it, weirdo!

    Not fun, not easy, but possible, and like you said, getting rid of the kibble is so much more difficult! Good luck with the diet change! :bighug:
     
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