1/26 Chicamonkey AMPS 349 / PMPS 523 increased to 3.5U lantus. IgF questions

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by Suzi and Chicamonkey, Jan 26, 2021.

  1. Suzi and Chicamonkey

    Suzi and Chicamonkey Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2020
    Good morning everyone!
    Monkey had a +7 of 333. I know because I woke up thinking about work :(
    Well, our boss held a meeting after our work day to inform us of how we can be more productive even with skeleton staff
    ( where’s the eye roll emoji)?!?

    praying for powerball win!!!

    regarding acro and igf- at what point do I ask my vet for this?
    And I’ve seen some people refer to carbogoline as treatment. Can anyone tell me cost? thank you!
    Some additional info: I purchased a digital scale which just arrived . On nov 15 monkey weighed 13 lbs at the vet.
    This morning she weighed 12.2!
    Diet change.
    Mostly wet ff pate. I save tiki cat zero carbs for 400-500 days.
    Treats are cooked chicken or pure bites freeze dried meat treats.

    have a great day!!!!


    here is yesterday’s
    https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-amps-378-2-358-pmps-343.242043/#post-2727045
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
    Reason for edit: Added photo and question
  2. Hercule's mum

    Hercule's mum Member

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    Jul 27, 2020
    Aw, Suzi! These are tough times. It has to get better (for you and Chica!). Hang in there! :bighug:
     
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  3. Suzi and Chicamonkey

    Suzi and Chicamonkey Member

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    Nov 17, 2020
    Thank you so much :)
     
  4. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

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    Nov 3, 2017
    I hate those kinds of meetings! The 'read between the lines' says - you need to work harder and longer hours because we're not hiring anyone else to help out :rolleyes::rolleyes: And if anyone leaves, well you get to do their jobs too...:mad:!

    I'm not sure at what point you'd want to look into that - @Wendy&Neko and others here have more experience. Wendy comes on the forum later in the day as she's on the west coast.

    I think it's when the kitty is on a higher dose than Chica...but I'm not certain.

    I hope you have a good day Suzi - in spite of the boss and their big ideas on making everyone work harder...:rolleyes:

    PS: You may want to check out @Amy&Tibby condo this morning - she's at 7 units, going to see about the test - https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/1-26-tibby-amps-177.242101/
     
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  5. Suzi and Chicamonkey

    Suzi and Chicamonkey Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2020
    Yes! U
    nrealnexpect!
    I think @Wendy&Neko mentioned by 5 units ....
    I wondered about the drug therapy.
     
  6. JaxBenji

    JaxBenji Well-Known Member

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    Jul 10, 2020
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  7. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2013
    It’s too soon to test for IAA and Acro. She’s not on a high dose. Sometimes you just have to keep increasing until you hit the right dose and then magic happens. She’s losing weight too fast. She needs more calories until regulated. What’s her ideal weight?

    Look at the spreadsheets of Golf Henry, his 2020 one, and Mariette/Buddy. I can show you others. I understand you want to increase when you can be home so how about taking a .25 increase to Ishtar and if necessary do a .50 on the weekend?
     
  8. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2013
  9. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Oct 18, 2019
  10. Suzi and Chicamonkey

    Suzi and Chicamonkey Member

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    Nov 17, 2020
    Ok
    .
    Ok.
    She lost .7 lbs in 9 1/2 weeks.
    Please understand we were feeding her gravy lovers fancy feast and elegant medleys. Really high carb.
    Her ideal weight is about 9 lbs.
    She gets 240 calories a day now 2-4 cans depending on size of can of friskies it’s less.
    I was really curious about the weight . I could increase her food to maintain weight
     
  11. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2013
    Since she needs to lose you are on the right track. You just want it to be slow weight loss. The digital scales are wonderful. I weigh my two often. They like to sleep on it. Dr. Lisa has a formula for safe slow weight loss. I can’t remember the formula for how many calories to cut at cat info.org.
     
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  12. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    I peeked at your ss. It looks like Ollie's when I first got her. It seemed as if insulin was water to her and it did nothing. Since I was home all the time, 2 well experienced members had me increasing more often which still didn't help much. Oh Ollie would pop a blue when increased but then right back into pinks. She wasn't at 5 units yet, then switched to levemir insulin so needed to give it some time. My thought was leaning towards IAA, but had to wait 73 days of being on insulin. Finally her vet appt time came and I asked to do the IAA and IGF. His first words were she isn't acro, she doesn't have the head or face of one. I said do it anyway. So he did. I found out after he sent it in he didn't order the IAA saying there is nothing you can do for it but increase insulin so I saved you some money. I was so royally pissed. So the IGF comes back 382. Dr states she is normal because it's under 1000. I get copy of results, call him back and tell him to look at it again. The 382 is U.S. Measurement. Convert that to UK measures (studies are done in UK) and she is over 2900 ACRO POSITIVE. Long story short, life in the way, it took me some time to get info and see what if anything could be done. Ollie was not good, miserable, symptoms were bad. It took consults with 3 other vets until I found one willing to try cabergoline. That took 4 months. Vet knew nothing about the med or acro for that matter but was willing to try it. We had nothing to lose and a chance it MIGHT help. Our gamble paid off. Ollie was up to 9 units by then. Her symptoms were severe.

    I can not stress this enough. For Ollie, I didn't care how much insulin she needed or getting her into remission. It was and had been only and always relieving the symptoms so she could breath normally without struggling, walk normally without pain. That we achieved, she even started playing, running, jumping. Bonus was insulin dose was down by half.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
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  13. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2015
    The gravy food will keep the glucose up. You could use FF savory centers of she likes the gravy. It sauce not gravy despite what label says, it's low carb and feed more food over all. I fed Ollie based on calories needed to prevent weight gain. Cutting the gravy food out will help lower the glucose.
     
  14. Suzi and Chicamonkey

    Suzi and Chicamonkey Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2020
    That’s what I was going by.
    She eats more food now than she ever did. I think she’s doing well.
    She pees normal ish... 4-5 normal size pees but she gets a lot of water with her food.
    She poops a nice poop every day now. I just need her sugars to fall in line! :)
     
  15. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2013
    Thats what she fed before diagnosis I think. Not now.
     
  16. Suzi and Chicamonkey

    Suzi and Chicamonkey Member

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    Nov 17, 2020
    Yes correct! Not now!
    Now she gets ff pate or friskies pate or tiki cats
    And her treats are freeze dried pure bites
     
  17. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2015
    Ok. That's good.
     
  18. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Feb 28, 2012
    As has been stated, we suggest to people who's cat gets to six units that it's time to get the tests done. Of course, we've had cats on less units of insulin positive for either IAA or acromegaly. It's just that over 6, the chances are pretty good there is a secondary condition causing insulin resistance. So if a caregiver suspects something is off and kitty is hard to get regulated, then go ahead and test, regardless of dose. There have been cats on as low as 1 unit test positive for acromegaly, one in four (approx) diabetic cat has it. I'm not saying to test or not. Note that the majority of acrocats don't have clinical symptoms on diagnosis. Neko's main symptom was savage appetite, her only physical symptom was one tearing eye due to soft tissue growth in the tear duct, though I didn't know it was an acro symptom at the time - neither did the vet.

    Cabergoline is just one of the possible treatments, and the cheapest and easiest to give. Other options require either travel and/or major $$. The post Suzanne linked has some quotes from people on cost. And there are a few other current posts in the acro/IAA/cushings forums from people considering or on it now.
     
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  19. Suzi and Chicamonkey

    Suzi and Chicamonkey Member

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    Nov 17, 2020
    Can you tell me more maybe privately in a message?
    I’m so interested in cabergoline. Monkey always from when she was little has been a snorer. As she got heavier she makes noises but has never had difficulty breathing.... ever.
    She plays a little
    Has a good attitude (even for a tortie!)
    But tonight when I got home I just tested her and it said HI. I’m going to wait until her pre shot time and retest her . Her dose gets bumped to 3.5 tonight.
    So ...... here we are
    And like you, I don’t care how much insulin she needs.... I can handle that but I suspect something else is underlying.... maybe I’m paranoid?!
     
  20. Suzi and Chicamonkey

    Suzi and Chicamonkey Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2020
    Thank you so much!
    Yes... monkeys only real symptom right now is that savage appetite.
    I don’t think she has a big head or feet?? Like data suggests acro cats may have....but I’m her mom...... what do you think
    upload_2021-1-26_16-47-52.jpeg
     
  21. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Feb 28, 2012
    After 5 years of acromegaly, Neko never had big feed or head. At least no more than any other cat with Maine Coon heritage. Her main symptoms were mostly invisible, arthritis, soft tissue growth, later organ growth (heart and bowels). I once posted before and after pictures of her head, and asked people which was the before and which the after - most people got it wrong. :p

    I think Chica is cute.
     
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  22. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2015
    Just ask me anything, I can only say how it pertains to Ollie. Of course it can be different from what others experience.
     
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  23. Suzi and Chicamonkey

    Suzi and Chicamonkey Member

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    Nov 17, 2020
    Thank you Wendy! I really appreciate your thoughts and time
     
  24. Suzi and Chicamonkey

    Suzi and Chicamonkey Member

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    Nov 17, 2020
    What is the cost like for the treatment
     
  25. Suzi and Chicamonkey

    Suzi and Chicamonkey Member

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    Nov 17, 2020
    Ate you treating with carbergoline?
     
  26. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2015
    I got suspension from Wedgwood. It cost me $125.50 for 45 days worth. It does depends on strength and dose vet scripts. My vet scripted dose higher than what I gave so I got more for my money.
     
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  27. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Feb 28, 2012
    Cabergoline is also dosed based on weight of cat. Hence you will get some variability in price.

    I don't know what current SRT costs are, though I think it's in the $8,000 range. :eek: That depends on how many days of radiation (typically 1-3), includes CT scans too. Then there's the travel if you don't have it available locally. It was much cheaper back in the day for me.

    Sometimes looking at older pictures of the cat can be instructive. Here's one of Punkin before and after acromegaly diagnosis. That's much more obvious.
     

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