11/29, Pookey, AMPS 235, +6 208, PMPS 229, +4 218

[Tim & Pookey]

Good morning,

Yesterday’s post:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...212-5-183-pmps-260-3-232.296077/#post-3223946

We’re getting close to sub-200 pre shot numbers. I know the sticky for SLGS says to delay, skip, or token dose when below 200 AMPS. Would it be okay to estimate where it is safe to shoot for him specifically based on past cycles?

For example, he usually drops by ~60-80 throughout a cycle so in theory I could shoot lower than 200 with his current dose.

Have a great day! - Tim

 

[Staci & Ivy]

Good morning,

Yesterday’s post:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...212-5-183-pmps-260-3-232.296077/#post-3223946

We’re getting close to sub-200 pre shot numbers. I know the sticky for SLGS says to delay, skip, or token dose when below 200 AMPS. Would it be okay to estimate where it is safe to shoot for him specifically based on past cycles?

For example, he usually drops by ~60-80 throughout a cycle so in theory I could shoot lower than 200 with his current dose.

Have a great day! - Tim

Good morning, Tim. I’m so glad you and Pookey are doing so well!
I may suggest you use the question mark and something like “preshot advice” in your title so you can get some answers to your question.
Have a great day!

 

[Bandit's Mom]

We’re getting close to sub-200 pre shot numbers. I know the sticky for SLGS says to delay, skip, or token dose when below 200 AMPS. Would it be okay to estimate where it is safe to shoot for him specifically based on past cycles?

For example, he usually drops by ~60-80 throughout a cycle so in theory I could shoot lower than 200 with his current dose.

The no-shoot number of 200 is for members whose cats are new to insulin and who don't have enough data on how their cats respond to insulin. You have enough data and Pookey is giving you pretty flat cycles.

Lantus is very good at giving flat cycles when you shoot low. In fact, the preshot is often not an indicator of how a cycle will play out. A cat can have a PS in the 400s and dive to double digits, or start a cycle in double digits and zoom to 300/400+ in a bounce. With SLGS you can shoot any number over 90. The idea is to shoot lower and lower preshots till you get comfortable shooting as low as 90.

 

[Christie & Maverick]

Usually when new members start out, the are on the main health forum, and as part of the New, How to Help Us Help You sticky, no shoot under 200 is suggested for kitties who are still gathering data and posting there as well as for kitties using other insulins. Since you are here on the Lantus, Lev and Basaglar subforum, we’d usually suggest not shooting under 150 until you get a sense of how the insulin and carbs you are feeding affect your cat. You may want to try and get some spot checks at +1 (that can help give you an idea of how much of a food bump Pookey gets) or more +2s here and there during the day if possible, since knowing when a cat typically onsets helps as well. Those data points help overall when you start getting a lower preshot number and determining whether you are comfortable shooting.

Would it be okay to estimate where it is safe to shoot for him specifically based on past cycles?

For example, he usually drops by ~60-80 throughout a cycle so in theory I could shoot lower than 200 with his current dose.

There really isn’t a specific estimation or ability to predict, since that’s not really how Lantus works. As preshot numbers come down, the cycles tend to flatten out.

 

[Tim & Pookey]

Good morning, Tim. I’m so glad you and Pookey are doing so well!
I may suggest you use the question mark and something like “preshot advice” in your title so you can get some answers to your question.
Have a great day!

Thanks Staci! I figured it wasn’t urgent and more of a general question so I’d let people respond as they stop by

 

[Tim & Pookey]

The no-shoot number of 200 is for members whose cats are new to insulin and who don't have enough data on how their cats respond to insulin. You have enough data and Pookey is giving you pretty flat cycles.

Lantus is very good at giving flat cycles when you shoot low. In fact, the preshot is often not an indicator of how a cycle will play out. A cat can have a PS in the 400s and dive to double digits, or start a cycle in double digits and zoom to 300/400+ in a bounce. With SLGS you can shoot any number over 90. The idea is to shoot lower and lower preshots till you get comfortable shooting as low as 90.

Awesome, thanks Bhooma, that makes sense. That’s probably why everyone says learn their specific cat. Just because I haven’t seen these specific scenarios yet doesn’t mean they can’t happen.

 

[Tim & Pookey]

Usually when new members start out, the are on the main health forum, and as part of the New, How to Help Us Help You sticky, no shoot under 200 is suggested for kitties who are still gathering data and posting there as well as for kitties using other insulins. Since you are here on the Lantus, Lev and Basaglar subforum, we’d usually suggest not shooting under 150 until you get a sense of how the insulin and carbs you are feeding affect your cat. You may want to try and get some spot checks at +1 (that can help give you an idea of how much of a food bump Pookey gets) or more +2s here and there during the day if possible, since knowing when a cat typically onsets helps as well. Those data points help overall when you start getting a lower preshot number and determining whether you are comfortable shooting.



There really isn’t a specific estimation or ability to predict, since that’s not really how Lantus works. As preshot numbers come down, the cycles tend to flatten out.

Thanks Christie!! This is great information, the onset data is something I’m missing still. The +2s I have gotten seem pretty flat with the LC wet. It would be interesting to trial some MC or HC wet and see how much of a bump he gets for when we need it.

 

[cecile & bella]

You are getting a lot of information by testing so often, all that will help when the time comes!
He is doing great, congratulations

 

[Tim & Pookey]

You are getting a lot of information by testing so often, all that will help when the time comes!
He is doing great, congratulations

Thanks Cecile

That was funny what you said about Bella going for the compost bin. I got to make sure ours is secure now too before he gets any ideas from her haha

 

[Christie & Maverick]

Depending on the situation, in most cases, you want to be able to use the cat’s usual food first, and see how that works. Sometimes the LC works just fine, so the idea is to use the least amount of carbs needed. Again, depends on how carb sensitive you find Pookey to be, which comes from watching in cycles when you feed and where and seeing how the carbs affect the BG.

 

[SmallestSparrow]

It would be interesting to trial some MC or HC wet and see how much of a bump he gets for when we need it.

I’m new here but personally I wouldn’t do that experiment. If he needs it then you will find out how fast he responds—if all else fails you could do as many of us did (incorrectly) the first time we saw lower numbers and throw a lot of karo or high carb treats in front of them. …it’s a beginner rite of passage i think…Or be like me and give high carb treats soaked in karo

ummm, dont be me

but unless the number is a true emergency (in which case Karo is the right answer) there’s plenty of time to try different carb levels. I’d avoid tests for a couple of reasons: first for my boy at least it’s hard enough to get decent numbers and an expect curve without a meal with extra carbs. Also, the MC food I found has terrible ingredients (meat by products, wheat gluten and stuff I can’t even find with google). I feel terrible everytime I give him some. Then of course he adores this junk and once he gets some tries to hold out for more. Finally he has stomach issues for days afterwards.
Pookey is making such good progress. Great job!

 

[Tim & Pookey]

I’m new here but personally I wouldn’t do that experiment. If he needs it then you will find out how fast he responds—if all else fails you could do as many of us did (incorrectly) the first time we saw lower numbers and throw a lot of karo or high carb treats in front of them. …it’s a beginner rite of passage i think…Or be like me and give high carb treats soaked in karo
View attachment 71610
ummm, dont be me

but unless the number is a true emergency (in which case Karo is the right answer) there’s plenty of time to try different carb levels. I’d avoid tests for a couple of reasons: first for my boy at least it’s hard enough to get decent numbers and an expect curve without a meal with extra carbs. Also, the MC food I found has terrible ingredients (meat by products, wheat gluten and stuff I can’t even find with google). I feel terrible everytime I give him some. Then of course he adores this junk and once he gets some tries to hold out for more. Finally he has stomach issues for days afterwards.
Pookey is making such good progress. Great job!

Thanks Colleen! I appreciate the advice and you sharing your experience. I’m new too so just trying to be as prepared as possible

You’re doing great as well! It’s a learning process for sure.