11/9 dose? Armani AMPS 397 +2 385 +4 438 +6 380 +8 308 +10 386 PMPS 386

Hello! This is my first time posting, I am trying to follow the correct format for posts, I apologize in advance if I haven't gotten it quite right.

Armani was diagnosed in August and I am still trying to find the right dose for him. The spread sheet should be linked in the signature (I hope it is there!), and I am learning I need to do many more curves to have better information. I did one yesterday which is posted in the thread title. I'm afraid his dose is too high, and that is why the numbers are so high, but he doesn't come down much at all in the course of his curve. The vet did a curve at the office in September and it was pretty much the same.

I'm thinking I should try decreasing his dose - should I do this gradually or just reduce it? His numbers seem to be all over the place, and with each increase, they would get better, then get worse again.

Any help would be much appreciated! Armani is a very difficult cat (he was feral), so I'm doing my best to test as much as I can, but he doesn't make it easy for me. Thank you!

 

welcome!

looks good to me

check.

i can't help you with dose, but if you put the "?" prefix in your title and add text like "dose help?"
that should get the right eyes on.

edit to add: i might have missed it, but i don't see where you've selected a protocol to follow (TR vs SLGS) that info will influence the dosing guidance. ppl usually add it to their signature and at the top of the spreadsheet.

you can read about each of the methods here
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/

 

Thank you for the information about formatting posts, I appreciate it! I don't know if I should follow the TR or SLGS, the vet hasn't mentioned anything about either. I will certainly read about each method and follow the advice people here give! It's not letting me edit the title of the post, I'll remember to add the "dose?" to my next post! Thank you again!

 

up near your title should be somethings that says “thread tools” if you select it you should see “edit title”

 

Thank you so much, got the title edited!

 

Hi Welcome! Great job testing! On your SS, you can put your insulin units in the "U" columns then you can delete your "medicine" columns. Take a look at my SS as an example.

You'll want to make sure you get BG test before you shoot every time so you can to make sure Armani's in a safe place for insulin.

I also can't comment on dosing but perhaps @Wendy&Neko can stop by when she can to take a look

 

Thank you! I fixed the "U" column. I appreciate the help!!

 

Hello and welcome to you and sweet Armani. In addition to that Sticky Note on Dosing Methods, take a look at the other Sticky Notes too. Lots of good info in there. No quiz afterwards. Feel free to ask questions, we love to help here.

OK, onto dosing. Both of our dosing methods determine how to change the dose based on how low the dose is taking the cat. If you look at the New to the Group Sticky Note, there is a "typical" Lantus curve action shown there. Note, cats are notorious for not wanting the follow the rules, so there is a lot of variability from "typical". Anyway, in general the low points are in the middle between the shots. Although curves can be useful, they can also be misleading if done on the wrong cycle. Looks like Armani was bouncing the day you did the curve. Another definition for you:
Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

So the question is what to do going forward. Is it possible for you to get some mid cycle tests during the day or night? I don't expect you to get up in the middle of the night to test, but if you can get a test before going to bed and it's at least +2, it'll give us good clues as to what is happening at this dose. If you can get a day or two worth of that data, it'll help us understand what is happening at this dose.

Office curves don't mean much, often the cat's blood sugar is elevated due to stress of the vet visit. Home data is best.

 

Thank you so much for your help!! I feel so powerless to get his numbers under control, and all of you lovely people are giving me some hope it can be done. I will do lots of reading to become as informed as possible. I will definitely do mid-cycle tests. During the day, would you suggest at +6 or another number? He starts to get upset and aggressive/fearful if I test too often, but I will do my best to follow what you suggest! I can definitely get +2 or +3 in the evening. It sounds like you are suggesting I should stay at the current dose for now for a few days, and wait for more information before decreasing?

 

in addition to the pm cycle test that wendy recommends, for the am cycle we try for something in the 2.5 /3.25 range bc this can give you a hint sometimes about what kitty is thinking about for the cycle. so if higher than the ps, hopefully a quiet cycle. but if lower probably active. then you can think about the middle of the am cycle like a puzzle. for example, you could mix it up in the +5 to +7 range spread over multiple days. so get one of those a day, if you can.
if you look at kit’s spreadsheet, you’ll notice that we take that idea, but shifted later in the cycle because we’ve learned about kit and it’s most interesting to watch her numbers from +7 onward.

also, it’s possible that testing can get easier for both you and armani. kit comes to find us, i kid you not, for numerous of her tests. as she is right now bc i have to get her pm+2.75.

 

Mix up those day times tests between +4 and +7. And yes, stick at the current dose and gather data.

 

Thank you! I will gather data for 3-4 days (aiming for +2 or +3 in the evening, and around +3 in the morning as well as some +5 and +7) and post again, thank you for all of the help!!