12/21 Minner PMPS 163 +2 104 +2.5 91 +3 88 +4 88 +5 84 +6 89

MinnerPip

MinnerPip

Active Member
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:coffee:This may be a food assisted AMPS. Last night was another vigil even tho her pmps was 253. I thought at +7 she had turned to start rising, but I decided to chk a little b4 +10 and she was the lowest of whole cycle at 109. Or staying flat in very low blue from +6 to +10. Still, that’s almost 150 drop during the cycle.

This goes back to the “steep drop” discussion that @bluesunshine has recently commented on (thank you). How do you get the confidence to shoot lower pre-shots where a 150 drop would mean a negative number?? :banghead:

So at almost +10, 2am and 2 hours before time for shot, I gave her part of a hartz bisque pouch to give her a lift. I had been trying not to do any cycle manipulation to see pure numbers, but I failed there at 2am in anticipation of shot due in 2 hours.

But, hey, not long ago I wouldn’t have been able to shoot a 173. So let’s see what happens. Do we get a green today??? So close ….
:nailbiting:
 
Well, a 20 point bump from ps to +2. Kicking myself now for the bisque 4 hours ago. Try to remember and learn Laura.
 
Laura, I’ve wondered this too. If we’ve seen a 50% drop in the past, and we shoot low, applying that same 50% could be a bad scenario, right? I’m going to guess that there are things in their bodies that happen that don’t allow us to make that assumption.
 
You’re playing it safe to try to learn your cat. You saw this worked out, and looking back at the data you feel better letting it surf longer before intervening next time.

I’ve had days where I know I’ll need to be out of the house, or nights when I know I need to sleep when I’ve taken a reduction or given more food to give us both a break.

Don’t kick yourself too much, you need to stay sane to keep Minner safe. Next lower mid-cycle blue happens you’ll feel better just watching it to see where she heads!
 
MinnerPip said:
How do you get the confidence to shoot lower pre-shots where a 150 drop would mean a negative number?? :banghead:
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It's not a direct correlation when shooting lower PSs. Lantus and it's biosimilars are great at keep greens and blues staying in greens and blues but has a tougher time bringing down those higher BGs. If you look at others SSs, you'll see that shooting an 80 at PS usually keeps the kitty coasting in the 60-90 the rest of the cycle. It is scary at first I know but I also know that I have to monitor my kitty more when she starts off in Yellows than in greens.
Remember also when your cat onsets. At PS, the juice is winding down and it's going to take a couple of hours for the next shot to kick in. That gives a couple of hours to "prop up" the BGs before your fresh dose starts working.
One of my favorite posts is here regarding shooting a dropping number. Plus there's usually someone around to help or you can always reread the stickies.

@MinnerPip you may have to be a little more diligent since you're dealing with IAA.
 
Curve Ball !! PMPS 40 points lower than her +8. I shot her full dose of 7.5U. Because I had a multi hour nap today so it can be 3rd night in a row of nail biting, sweating, grit your teeth monitoring. We’re going for a green. A high green. Yes, a VERY high green.

Plus I had recently read all the responses above w/ insights about shooting low to stay low and steep drop absolute values not the same at lower ps values.

I have noticed she is not eating as much. So that bugs me. 3% carb is her highest food amount in her choice of FF pates, but given this enhanced pickiness the last 2-3 days, I opened a FF chunky that is 5% and gave her some at 30min post shot. With this strange end of cycle 40 point drop and her not eating as much, I did not want to wait until her +2 to get her dinner.

Send me luck and please no big drops deep into green.
 
MinnerPip said:
Curve Ball !! PMPS 40 points lower than her +8. I shot her full dose of 7.5U. Because I had a multi hour nap today so it can be 3rd night in a row of nail biting, sweating, grit your teeth monitoring. We’re going for a green. A high green. Yes, a VERY high green.

Plus I had recently read all the responses above w/ insights about shooting low to stay low and steep drop absolute values not the same at lower ps values.

I have noticed she is not eating as much. So that bugs me. 3% carb is her highest food amount in her choice of FF pates, but given this enhanced pickiness the last 2-3 days, I opened a FF chunky that is 5% and gave her some at 30min post shot. With this strange end of cycle 40 point drop and her not eating as much, I did not want to wait until her +2 to get her dinner.

Send me luck and please no big drops deep into green.
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You got this!!!! Plus you had that nap (lucky you ;)) Maybe get a +1 and feed carb % accordingly. Great opportunity to gather some data on how much carbs affects her and when in the cycle to feed them. Keep notes :).
 
MinnerPip said:
not long ago I wouldn’t have been able to shoot a 173. So let’s see what happens
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So she's teasing you with that PMPS of 163. :cool: It's nice when they slowly easy you down in how low you are willing to shoot.

You are gathering some really good data now. Look what happens so far when you've shot blue. None of the blue preshots have taken her down more than 20 points so far. That will likely change over time.

As far as that Hartz Bisque, it takes less calories at the end of the cycle to give them a boost. After nadir, the insulin effect is winding down and any extra carbs can slow it down even more. It needs experiment as to what works for Minner, but sometimes just a spoon of LC will be enough. ECID of course. At that +9.7 last night, she was essentially flat (within meter variance) and had been for four hours.
 
I just gave her some 10% b/c she wasn’t eating much of the 3 and 5% and her +2 is 104 …. Down 60 points from ps. That’s not cool. I’m panicking now. Checking again in 30 or 45
 
I just gave her some hartz bisque and will test again in 30 at +3. I have some FF florentine and gravy lovers ready.

The lowest I have ever seen is 80 and that was at end of a cycle. Her shot here is just kicking in. This is only her 6th green in 6 months.
 
I know I don't count as a noob, but just wanted to encourage you. Jude did this the other night. I shot him at 178, and he dipped down into the greens all night, which is (technically) where I want him to be, but it freaked me out. The lowest he got that cycle was 68 and I carbed him to bring him up. But, on the good side, she's given you a green!! Just hold that surf, Minner!
 
Marielle said:
I know I don't count as a noob, but just wanted to encourage you. Jude did this the other night. I shot him at 178, and he dipped down into the greens all night, which is (technically) where I want him to be, but it freaked me out. The lowest he got that cycle was 68 and I carbed him to bring him up. But, on the good side, she's given you a green!! Just hold that surf, Minner!
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Thank you. I’m trying to be strong. No killing my cat in my quest to save her. Learning Learning Learning. This would be impossible without this community.
 
I think tonight's the night you conquer your fears ;). You're doing great and I'm so proud that you're rewarding yourself (nice choice with the donut). See you in an hour, or maybe sooner if you get curious :)
 
In the green zone.

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Love the pic! She looks like my family cat growing up :bighug:.

Just to add some reassurance, this is exactly what you want for her! Cycle is looking great and you're there to help if she drops too low. 88 is great!
 
Bell doesn't eat well in the blues, especially if she is coming from a number higher than her renal threshold. Once she hits the lower greens (50-65) she gets ravenously hungry. Everyone here has reassured me that is normal. I can use that increased appetite as a secondary indicator of when she is dropping low and needs to be monitored carefully.
 
Holding steady. 84 @ +5. I gave her a tsp of hartz bisque. She is napping now. Will chk at +6.

Thinking ahead to AM shot. I have no clue how this will unfold, but I do not see myself being able to shoot something under say 130 or 140. 147 is the current record. So if this surfs and doesn’t get there, I assume I’ll bump up with food. I wish I were more BOS-ish, just not there yet. Baby steps.
 
What carb is the hartz bisque? I'd stick with LC at this point, you want to see what she'll do on her own without influence of carbs.

It's a little early to worry about AMPS. A bounce is always a possibility. With TR we shoot anything over 50. But I'd suggest posting when you get that AMPS if it worries you and see if someone can walk you through the options. And rereading this Sticky Note:
Tight Regulation: Becoming Data Ready to Shoot / Handle Lower Pre-shot Numbers
 
MinnerPip said:
Holding steady. 84 @ +5. I gave her a tsp of hartz bisque. She is napping now. Will chk at +6.

Thinking ahead to AM shot. I have no clue how this will unfold, but I do not see myself being able to shoot something under say 130 or 140. 147 is the current record. So if this surfs and doesn’t get there, I assume I’ll bump up with food. I wish I were more BOS-ish, just not there yet. Baby steps.
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The other night when Jude did this, he was 169 at the AMPS, but I waited a few, and saw that he was going up, so I shot him (and calculated the .25 dose decrease for going below 90). Interestingly, he bounced to 563 at +7. But, you know what they say, ECID, and my cat is all over the place.

Glad Minner is holding in the greens.
 
Here’s a post from Wendy from Methos’ thread if you didn’t catch it, which I found helpful

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https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/20-dec-methos-318-amps-325-2-290-5-5.296753/

Absolutely not trying to pressure you at all, most important thing is that you are comfortable about all this, but this is a great cycle for Minner! Scary to deal with without experience doing it. But you may find Minner becomes even more stable being in this low blue/green zone versus her just touching a blue number and bouncing up again.

I’m struggling to get Bell reacquainted with the low numbers like she was a few months ago. She is really reacting to seeing green again and I’m more worried about her bounce recovery dive than I was at shooting an 89 yesterday morning.

Caveat: only been doing this for 5-6 months and have no experience with IAA. Mostly just want to encourage you because I know it is nerve-wracking. The people here are so great at supporting you through it!
 

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Wendy&Neko said:
What carb is the hartz bisque? I'd stick with LC at this point, you want to see what she'll do on her own without influence of carbs.

It's a little early to worry about AMPS. A bounce is always a possibility. With TR we shoot anything over 50. But I'd suggest posting when you get that AMPS if it worries you and see if someone can walk you through the options. And rereading this Sticky Note:
Tight Regulation: Becoming Data Ready to Shoot / Handle Lower Pre-shot Numbers
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Thank you Wendy. Based on the guaranteed analysis, the math result is a negative number for carbs. 10% protein, 0.7% fat, 0.5% fiber, 90% moisture, 1.5% ash. We know the flaws with this given these are min/max values.

Ingredients: water, chicken, beef, natural flavor, tapioca starch, guar gum, annatto extract color, carmine color. Pretty sure tapioca starch is a carb with high glycemic index. So I don’t know if this bumps her up some b/c it’s food or b/c the carb content is way off the math from guaranteed analysis, or b/c even a hint of tapioca starch gives a boost. It’s something she has never refused (knock on wood) and back early on when she wore a libre, i could see it have an increase effect fairly quickly, but short lived.

I know I have to get there with shooting low numbers. I’ve looked at that sticky many times in past week and will do it again now. The problem is between my ears. <beating head on desk>
 
bluesunshine said:
Here’s a post from Wendy from Methos’ thread if you didn’t catch it, which I found helpful

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https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/20-dec-methos-318-amps-325-2-290-5-5.296753/

Absolutely not trying to pressure you at all, most important thing is that you are comfortable about all this, but this is a great cycle for Minner! Scary to deal with without experience doing it. But you may find Minner becomes even more stable being in this low blue/green zone versus her just touching a blue number and bouncing up again.

I’m struggling to get Bell reacquainted with the low numbers like she was a few months ago. She is really reacting to seeing green again and I’m more worried about her bounce recovery dive than I was at shooting an 89 yesterday morning.

Caveat: only been doing this for 5-6 months and have no experience with IAA. Mostly just want to encourage you because I know it is nerve-wracking. The people here are so great at supporting you through it!
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Thank you for this Seth. I did see this and it hit home. The IAA thing is part of my fear. There’s not much info about it and yet it drives up risk since its unpredictable. Wendy has advised me that to beat it I need to get consistently into green. I keep saying i hope i don’t kill my cat while trying to save her. I guess its going to kill her otherwise so better go for the option that gives her a fighting chance.

I did see Bell’s rebound and was bummed. What a great green streak yesterday though. The body and the endocrine system is so complex and even mysterious. To protect itself sometimes it can end up harming itself. She was regulated before so that tells me she can get back there. It’s like something happened when you went to the 2nd solo star pen. Glad to see she’s coming down in PM cycle from the AM cycle. Hang in there.
 
bluesunshine said:
Can you tell a big difference in the amount of urine you are seeing after these last 5 cycles?
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Big time. In fact today I started worrying that she hadn’t peed yet. She usually pees 2-3x every 24 hours but they are high volume. She has peed once today and it was smaller clump!
 
MinnerPip said:
Thank you for this Seth. I did see this and it hit home. The IAA thing is part of my fear. There’s not much info about it and yet it drives up risk since its unpredictable. Wendy has advised me that to beat it I need to get consistently into green. I keep saying i hope i don’t kill my cat while trying to save her. I guess its going to kill her otherwise so better go for the option that gives her a fighting chance.

I did see Bell’s rebound and was bummed. What a great green streak yesterday though. The body and the endocrine system is so complex and even mysterious. To protect itself sometimes it can end up harming itself. She was regulated before so that tells me she can get back there. It’s like something happened when you went to the 2nd solo star pen. Glad to see she’s coming down in PM cycle from the AM cycle. Hang in there.
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Thank you, Laura! The timing with the pen change drove me nuts for a good month, before ruling that out. A good life lesson for me about assigning causation based a limited data and a bunch of changing factors. This stuff is hard to predict, for us mere mortals.
 
MinnerPip said:
Big time. In fact today I started worrying that she hadn’t peed yet. She usually pees 2-3x every 24 hours but they are high volume. She has peed once today and it was smaller clump!
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This is what drove home to me the benefit for Bell. It has been really hard for me to see her fall back into the excessive urination and drinking this last month. When I first got Bell fairly regulated, I was absolutely shocked that she hardly drank at all
 
MinnerPip said:
I keep saying i hope i don’t kill my cat while trying to save her. I guess its going to kill her otherwise so better go for the option that gives her a fighting chance.
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IAA doesn't kill, but from experience here, not getting an IAA kitty seeing some good numbers can lead to higher and higher doses. Note I said "some" good numbers, not all. But that also depends on the cat and whether they are one of those that likes to stay flat most of the time, or is fond of bouncing. I also tend to be a bit more cautious when dealing with a larger depot, though Minnner's isn't super large.

Next time you want to kill some time between tests and learn a little about IAA, here are a couple posts with more links.
See post #3 in this one, and a Think Tank discussion. FWIW, I've seen IAA kitties max out on doses between around 3 units up to high 30's.
 
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