12/26 Butters PMPS 54/+1 119/+2 153/+4 157

Yesterday, no dive overnight. Thank you, Butters. I feel like she is not to be trusted, though.
A recap:
94 @+1
65 @+2
70 @+3
63 @+4
76 @+5
68 @+8
68 @+10

I found a strange transaction in my online banking this morning: $140 spent at a fried chicken place in Baltimore, MD. I'm in Canada. Butters must have taken my bank card and found a way to sneak across the border for some fried chicken in between tests last night. Quite the random restaurant choice, Butters.

I'm giving her the 5th 'P' for this creative endeavour....and I'm calling my bank "just in case" it wasn't her. But I'm pretty positive she did this.

Have a great day, all.

 

That’s a lot of fried chicken I’m sorry to hear that has happened

 

Sorry about the bank card issue...though if it was Butters she sure is handling those extra carbs exceptionally well

I had a credit card issue in March...someone bought construction supplies. Cute . Mine was a large amount of money so it took a police report and lots of waiting for the credit card fraud department to convince themselves I didn't do it. Actually, you may want to file a police report for your records if you haven't thought about it...I was told to do it for any sum of money in case it's part of a bigger identity issue and it helps authorities see if it's a pattern with stolen cards.

And, Butters, wipe that grease off your paws quick before mama figures out it was you And no need to smell the sharkies to cover your tracks

 

I’ve also had that happen. Mine was from getting gas one time. I now go inside to pay. The other time someone charged at Macy’s on line in another state. Both were taken care of easily without a police report.

Beautiful green streak going. You must be exhausted!

 

Morning Lyla, looks like Butters is doing fantastic on the reduction, slow down there
this morning little girl, yes Tyler is boring if you ask me lol
Tyler enjoyed the company last night ,but Butters probably thought he was a
boring date ,She's probably leaning towards Jax more
She doing beautifully Lyla. I hope you have a good day ♥♥
Sorry about the credit card issue, happened to me once a couple years ago
I can't say what I would do to these low life's on here, pieces of garbage
Not nice to say but maybe they started to choke on a chicken bone,
I know I'm bad

 

What a pain Lyla - it's happened to me as well and the person had spent almost $2000 across various stores when the bank realized something was wrong. Fortunately the bank dealt with it very well - got all the money back, new card, But it took a few days to sort out

Nice numbers for Butters - hope it's a good day for both of you!

 

She just dropped to 32 @+4. I fed 2 tsp 21%.
I don't ever remember her dropping this low before.


ETA: I did check again and it was 1.7 so like 30 or so, anyways, about the same as the 1.8 / 32.

 

A recap of this morning:
65 @AMPS - fed 15 grams raw pork
76 @+1
52 @+2 - fed 1 tsp 16%
54 @+2.5 - fed 1 tsp 16%
67 @+3
32 @+4 - fed 2 tsp 21%...Again...low 30s are not really something I have experienced so I opened the HC and gave her 2 tsps of just gravy.

 

Come on up Butters

 

Take another reduction, right @tiffmaxee ?
And depending on PMPS, maybe also a BCS to drain the depot.

I think she is going to try to give Henry a run for his money!

 

Awesome Lyla keep it up Butters safely

 

Bhooma, so you think this isn't just still the 4.25U dose in play? You think this cycle, cycle three at 4U, indicates she probably needs another reduction so soon? I don't know enough to know, but that number, the 32 BG, made me worry.

About 20 minutes until next test.

 

It takes a bit longer for gravy, as opposed to a small drop of syrup, to bring the BG up. Usually syrup works in 15 mins where the gravy starts working in about 30 so be sure you retest 30 mins after she’s done.

Even if she recently had a reduction, you want to reduce for a number in the 30s. You can always go back up. Congrats on the reduction. Her SS is looking much better.

Ugh on the bank transaction. We also had it happen but we were lucky that they caught the guy at a Walmart in KY....and we live in AZ.

 

Congrats on the reduction. That was one full depot!

 

Wow, I completely forgot about syrup. That's kind of embarrassing. And the jar is always out on my counter...just in case. I haven't felt my heart jump into my throat like that in a long time. She had two tsp HC gravy. I'm testing 30 minutes after she ate the gravy.

She had a reduction three cycles ago. As Wendy had pointed out, the .25u reductions are a smaller percentage of the dose when the doses are larger. Maybe it wasn't enough. I've adjusted my calipers for the new dose of 3.75U and we will see if she holds the reduction.

 

Thanks. And thank you for your explanation yesterday on what you are seeing with Butters and why she might come down the dosing scale. I had decided to try to sleep between tests before you posted. I was exhausted. Still kind of am. I didn't really get to sleep much but it was a good read this morning. There is always something new to learn.

 

She is up to 43 @+4.5...I'm thinking another tsp of HC gravy and another test in 30 minutes.

 

Yes, this is true but once we get below 5u, unless we are looking at a high dose kitty due to acro or IAA and they are coming down fast either be a use of treatment or the IAA breaking, we typically revert to decreases of 0.25u below 5u.

As CG, when our kitty is on a roll, we tend to not want to reduce when it looks like a “previous depot” issue causing the low BG and a reduction was recently earned. But, 32 is too low so we need to be safe. If she starts to trend up at all, increase the dose.

She does need to come up more and another tsp of gravy is fine but do remember that the gravy just starts to work at about 30 mins so it’s wise to test in another 30, as you state, so you don’t accidentally overcarb her when the gravy effects become cumulative. Of course, you know her well and how carb sensitive she is. It might not affect her the way it does some kitties.

 

Up please Butters.

 

I will. I am completely on board with another decrease. I appreciate being taught the difference between when some kitties' CGs are instructed to hold a recently reduced dose even though kitty went below 50 again, vs this scenario with Butters (32 being simply too low). Clearly she has a very full depot, as Elise said. She'd already had 2 tsp 16% this morning, too.

Would it have been okay to feed something different, lower carb, with the 43? Maybe go back to the 16%? I don't have experience with feeding her in the low 30s and barely any with the low 40s.

I was too nervous to wait and ask for advice so I just went ahead and gave her another tsp of 21%. I will find out soon whether it was too much. Butters either seems to come up very quickly from higher carb food, or I end up having to prop her up for the better part of a cycle before she stays up. I seemed to go on autopilot and my only thought was to give her gravy until she is back in the 50s.

 

Y'all who have been victims of fraud. This is no fun. It was a charge against my debit/bank card. The first thing the bank asked me was to check that I still have my debit/bank card on me. I do. The card wasn't stolen. I tap it at a few local merchants and I go to the ATM on occasion. That's it. Anyways, then Butters dropped into the 30s and so I had to hang up on the bank.

I can multi-task through a cat seizure and presentations but apparently I cannot feed very low numbers and talk on the phone at the same time.

 

45 @+2.5

 

enough "playing" butters, up!

 

I never lost my cards either and they were always in my possession. The Macy’s one happened by an online purchase. The gas company transactions were by paying at the pump.

 

I’d give hc with syrup. That used to help Max.

 

Thank you. I wasn't sure what to try. I will do this now.

 

fwiw,
1. we've wrestled w kit's larger dose depots on reductions. wendy taught us the value of bcs as a tool. seems the first couple times we did it without knowing it was a tool bc, well, we were very big chickens. but later on, it was on purpose.
2. this summer credit card was used for a large purchase of "commercial kitchen supplies" on the opposite coast. but never had the bank card ripped off, hope you get it solved when you have a moment.

 

You can likely go back to lc but I would not feed and check in 30.

 

88 @+5.5
Hopefully I haven't shot her to the moon. Perhaps this 88 is the cumulative effect of what is now a total of 4 tsp HC (mostly gravy) and 1/2 tsp honey in a 90 minute period.
I assume I should test again in..I have no idea.

To recap:
AMPS 65 - raw pork
+1 76 - no food
+2 54 - fed 1 tsp 16%
+2.5 52 - fed 1 tsp 16%
+3 67 - no food
+4 32 - fed 2 tsp HC gravy (21%)
+4.5 43 - fed 1 tsp HC gravy (21%)
+5 45 - fed 1 tsp HC and 1/2 tsp honey
+5.5 88 - not feeding.

 

Okay I will check again in 30. No food for now.
Elise, would you have suggested a check at +3.5, if I had it to do over?
I went from +3 to +4 without testing because I thought she was on the rise at +3 and she'd had 2 tsp of 16% on board. If I had checked at +3.5, I bet I would've caught her before she went to 32.

 

I hope you manage a nap today, Lyla.

Some ne'er-do-well once used my credit card for a porn site plus ToysrUs. My bank alerted me. The charges were removed. Card cancelled and a new one issued.

 

Yes. I would have checked at 3.5. given meter variance. It would not have made much difference though other than to maybe not need as much hc and karo. . She clearly needs the reduction.

 

Thanks. Lesson learned for next time.
She didn't even react to the lower numbers. I thought cats were supposed to search for food to protect themselves if they went too low. Not butters, apparently. I've always thought she lacks a strong sense of self-preservation. Way to stay on brand, butters.

 

from 88 @+5.5 to 76 @+6.
I'm thinking...don't feed again and test again in 30 minutes.

 

I haven't done a BCS on purpose, either. I've seen others use it as a tool with guidance. Sounds like something to consider for tonight! If tonight ever gets here.

 

If it's any consolation, I wouldn't have checked at +3.5 either - since she was higher at +3.

See what the others say, but I think a BCS tonight to drain the depot might make sense. You will fall over in exhaustion testing every 30 mins.

 

Since ECID, it’s hard to know what works for Butters and what doesn’t without just trying it. The first time, it’s smart to err on the side of caution; in other words, I’d rather see you overcarb her than her stay in the 30s. You’ll get info today that will help you decide.

There is a very important part to this....”larger dose depots”. Like Wendy, with larger dose depots, i agree an occasional BCS can help but should never give a false sense of security (this is for those just reading and not meant to indicate that Joji would or has done otherwise). An occasional BCS for a cat screaming down the dosing ladder can also help. However, at one point, I saw too many members using it rather arbitrarily, especially members who had been here quite a while who just didn’t want to shoot the 60s and were doing TR. It has its place but should not be a commonly used tool for cats that are not high dose or are not coming down the dosing ladder really fast due to IAA or glucose toxicity breaking. Of course, there is always the scenario of using it for a new member without data or when a member is not available or able to test. It always goes hand-in-hand with continued monitoring due to the depot.

I also still had my card in my possession. It was skimmed and the number sold. Luckily, it was caught very fast.

 

88 @+5.5
76 @+6
Now she is 56 @+6.5

 

I'm thinking she seems to want to drop. I don't think the carbs are doing a lot so far. I think another tsp of HC.
She is getting pretty annoyed with all of the testing. I feel for her. But I'm doing fine.
ETA: I fed 1 tsp 21% gravy @+7. Taking a few extra minutes to do each test/feed has thrown me off by 30 minutes. So I'm getting my next test at what will be +7.5 but it will be 30 minutes after feeding this gravy, not an hour. Sorry for the confusion.

I can see where maybe this is heavy handed for +6 and a number in the mid 50s. But I'm also thinking that she often has a late nadir, so what about that...we may not be done yet.

 

lol Lyla your sense of humor is on point. Come on up Butters pretty please

 

Lol! Butters doesn't appreciate my sense of humour the way you do, Susanne.

59 @+7.5 This is 30 minutes after being 56 and getting 1 tsp of 21% gravy. So she may be flat or may be on the rise? I'm leaning toward another tsp of 21% gravy.

 

Now I'm thinking maybe I can get her to surf in the 50s. I'll feed a little LC.

 

I hope Butters comes up and surfs a little higher for you. She definitely wants the reduction. I hope you can get your bank card theft straightened out quickly.

 

68 @+8 - will not feed and will check again in 30 minutes.
To recap:
AMPS 65 - raw pork
+1 76 - no food
+2 54 - fed 1 tsp 16%
+2.5 52 - fed 1 tsp 16%
+3 67 - no food
+4 32 - fed 2 tsp HC gravy (21%)
+4.5 43 - fed 1 tsp HC gravy (21%)
+5 45 - fed 1 tsp HC and 1/2 tsp honey
+5.5 88 - no food
+6 76 - no food
+6.5 56 - 1 tsp HC gravy (21%)
+7 59 - raw pork (1 tsp / 7 grams)
+8 68 (30 minutes after getting the 59 and feeding gravy...just lost 2 or 3 minutes on each test/feed cycle)

Looks like Butters' appetite is healthy.

And I think we can all agree Butters earned that "P" today. Well done, Butters.

 

Hope she stays in this range - that's alot of dropping in 24 hours - you are doing amazing...

 

Wow, what a day! Up you go, Butters, but not too high and not too fast.

Bummer on your bank card. I try now to pay most of my online purchases with PayPal. I never use my debit card except in the bank's ATM. I have one "dedicated" credit card that I only use for my local, everyday purchases (groceries, gas, etc.). What a drag that we have to be always on our guard! Good luck getting it all straightened out. About 10 years ago someone in Colorado charged hundreds of dollars worth of rare stamps on my card (I live in NY). The bank caught it, but never determined how it happened.

 

76 @+8.5.
I'm thinking she will stay up now and I can give her a bit of a poke break. 3.5 hours to PMPS....If this doesn't sound reasonable please let me know.

 

This one takes the cake. I just....I can't even process this.

uhm..wow.
I've never used my bank card for online purchases, not even through paypal. This makes the fraud more concerning because neither I nor the bank can figure out how my card number was stolen.

Very long phone call and not many answers. We went through my transactions and I've only used the card twice in six months, both at a neighbourhood market. All I found out is it that the fraudulent charge was done online through a 3rd party food delivery website, not directly at the fried chicken place.

Card is canceled and I'll have to go to a bank branch to get a new one. They opened an investigation and made no promises about whether I'll get reimbursed for the $140 that is now missing from my bank account. I guess I should apologize to Butters for wrongly accusing her.

 

Late nadir cats tend to nadir earlier when looking for a reduction. Of course ECID. Another thing to get out of today, when you get lows so early in the cycle, you still have a long way to go with the insulin just getting stronger. So (depending on the carb sensitivity of the cat), an early drop is a good reason for higher carbs and syrup, as is the 30's.

You have now gone 2 hours since last gravy, and she's not dropping, so I agree on the pokie slow down.

Congrats on the reduction.

 

Thanks for bringing this up but I’ll add that any cat (ECID) might show the nadir moving earlier when looking for a reduction. I’ve seen it in Henry and mentioned it to Robert. Of course, there are cats, like Sienne’s Gabby, who was always an early nadir cat so that little bit of “telephoning in” was not something that helped her.

Neither had we. Ours was skimmed at a restaurant.....back when we could go to them

 

This is great information to know. Thank you.

Thanks for the additional clarification for other non-late nadir cats.

Butters is 58 @+10. I thought she'd be bouncing by now. It doesn't look like she will. She is also completely irritated and getting a little upset with the testing. I can handle it; I just worry about stress and her pancreatitis.

Insulin time is 70 minutes away. Do I shoot the 3.75U as long as her PMPS is 50 or above? Is it worth discussing a BCS of some type to drain the depot, over and above the .25U reduction?
Marje, I read what you wrote regarding BCS earlier. Butters has been at 4U for three cycles and 4.25U prior to that. Tonight would be cycle one of 3.75U after earning the reduction today. Do I assume her depot is 4.25U still, and is that considered a higher dose depot in the context of whether or not to do a BCS? I don't know if I can explain why, but somehow I think it is important to mention that I'm trying for a well-regulated cat, not a tightly regulated cat.

I understand that if I were to do a BCS of some type, it won't help with tonight's cycle.

TIA anyone who can help me with this.

 

When they start to sort it out, I would escalate hard at the bank if they refuse to refund the money. Mine was also a debit card, and I got all of my money back. It's their responsibility to monitor for fraud - not all on you

Hope Butters settles - she really wanted a busy day for you today!

 

For purposes of using the BCS for a high dose cat or as more fully explained in my post #37, no, Butters wouldn’t fall into that category.

Having said that, you hold the syringe. You know Butters is getting tired of this and while the depot will still be active tonight (and potentially the 4.25u depot), when she onsets, it’s “possible” she won’t onset with as much “vigor" as she did this morning if you shoot a half dose. I just don’t have a crystal ball to tell you that much. You can look at Henry’s SS on 12/21 when he shot a BCS, a.m. cycle. I believe his original intent was just for that to be a BCS but by PMPS, had decided it was the new dose but after two cycles, he didn’t like what it did, so he went back up.

It’s smart to look at your goals because you know the cycle could potentially be active even with the BCS. It might give you some breathing room later in the cycle; it might give it to you tomorrow during the a.m. cycle. I know I’m not being much help here

I just might not be the best person to ask because I never did it. Even if I’d had a crazy cycle, I always shot the full dose the next cycle (accounting for any required reductions). That doesn’t mean you have to do that; I was wanting tight regulation. There is no right or wrong answer for you; if you feel Butters needs a break and you need a little breathing room yourself, shoot a BCS. It’s really ok if this trek down is coming too fast. Sometimes, with that BCS and in terms of progress, they barely miss a beat and you start with the new dose the next cycle. It just gives you both that little bit of breathing room.

 

There could definitely still be a smidge of the 4.25 unit depot at play today, but with a 32, even the 4 unit is too much. The larger depot influences 4-6 cycles after a reduction, towards the longer side for bigger doses.

As far as a BCS goes, a decision to do this is for the caregiver (you), not so much the cat. And with that BCS, the first part of the cycle could play out like you had shot the full dose anyway. But it does mean the latter part of the night might be easier and give you a possible break tomorrow. The other thing to consider is that this is possibly glucose toxicity breaking.

I did shoot the odd BCS, but only after a visit to the 20's . 32 is down there. But with Neko, she had changing conditions and BCS or "temporary" lower doses usually held. My goals were also not tight regulation but good regulation.

 

This helps! Thank you so much. And thank you for explaining why it was good that I mentioned my goal is a well regulated cat.

20s. I experienced mild shock over the 32.
If you're around, would you mind answering this? What do I need to consider with regards to glucose toxicity breaking and doing a BCS? This is the only thing making me hesitate a little bit.

I'm leaning toward a 2U dose for tonight, and then 3.75U tomorrow. But not if it could impact the breaking of glucose toxicity.

 

54 @PMPS. Yay, Butters! Thanks for staying above 50.

 

Just the potential that it could be which often means a bit of a wild ride down the dosing scale, often to just a certain point. It just makes reductions a bit less predictable because the kitty often doesn’t stay at a dose long. The one thing that often concerns me with these cats is they come down very quickly and earn alot of reductions then hit a stopping point. Some of them then have to go up higher than they were initially before they start coming back down slower. But, and I hate to be repetitive, but it’s ECID. Some come down fast but then hit a dose that they just level out at and they don’t go back up (i.e. there aren’t so many reductions earned so quickly that the dose becomes too small) but the reductions slow down.

It’s speculation on the glucose toxicity. Yes, we can look at the SS and her patterns and surmise it’s glucose toxicity but we don’t unequivocally know. Again, I’d look at Henry’s SS because he must have built up some glucose toxicity. He was at higher numbers much longer than Butters was. You can’t see this because his BGs from when he was first diagnosed are not on the SS but it went back to last spring. For Henry, I do believe his was a combo of stopping LC dry food and glucose toxicity breaking.

Keep in mind that 54 might be the lantus second dip. It’s higher than the nadir.

 

I am thinking similarly.

I think this is a good thing Lyla because I am hopeful that what you may be seeing here is the result of inflammation decreasing due to change of diet. Inflammation & the immune system being ramped up results in both higher BGs & insulin resistance. Many times, a pancreatitis flare is caused by inflammation of the GI track. When owners get lucky, making a diet change results in the inflammation subsiding & the pancreas is good to go ..... it takes a little time but it happens! Just as you saw the beef possibly aggravate her GI and BGs went higher, the opposite occurs when you find the diet that agrees with the sensitive Intestines ......inflammation & any insulin resistance caused by it resolves, less insulin is needed & BGs look good again .

 

Sorry I wasn't on earlier. Glad you shot something tonight. That +1 shows that she isn't used to the 30's - thank goodness! That was the other option that might give you some sleep tonight.

As for glucose toxicity, it's not always as simple as just. As others have said, sometimes there is another change in play. Oberon is another one who recently came down scale fairly briskly, but seems to have stalled out. Of course, the IAA is a complicating factor. I'd consider it too early to say if it's glucose toxicity breaking, just a possibility.

 

Really good conversations and information here. Looks like a bounce might be starting.

 

153 @+2
Darn. If I'd have known that she was going to bounce tonight, I would have shot the full 3.75U. I suppose it's too late to shoot the rest of the dose.

If she is still bouncing tomorrow, I'm thinking I could shoot through the bounce with the old 4U dose in the morning. Then start the reduced dose of 3.75U in the evening. Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
I have to read through everything.

 

Gosh, Butters, you are keeping mama on her toes!!! Stay above 50 for mum please!

Could you imagine calling the bank and saying "I think my cat has been using my credit card, but I'm not sure..." I want to be a fly on the wall for that conversation!!!!

 

3.75 units in the morning. Shooting through the bounce is a one cycle kind of thing. Especially with the 30's!

 

Understood! 3.75U in the morning. I would never, ever want to do anything that risks Butters' safety. That's why I always ask before I make decisions. And I will call tomorrow morning's 3.75U cycle two of the new dose.

 

Look on the bright side. You get to sleep. Hind site is 20/20. She could just have easily not bounced. I never did shoot through the bounce.

 

Wendy took the words out of my mouth.

This, too, shall pass. She might have a quick bounce in blue. Hope.

 

I actually am looking forward to finally getting some sleep. I never did get to take that badly needed nap @Red & Rover (GA) recommended.
I need to re-read some of the later posts. I looked at Henry's spreadsheet but will look at it some more.

Thank you so very much to everyone who stopped by for all of the help, humour, support, information and conversations today. I appreciate all of you.
I have learned a great deal and I will be saving a link to this condo in my spreadsheet.
And for her final trick of the day, Butters actually played volleyball in her tunnel for a few minutes. I haven't seen that since before she went into the hospital in mid-October. Who knows what tomorrow brings, but tonight she is feeling very good!

 

That capped off a really good day. Go to sleep!

 

I once had to tell my mechanic that my truck stalled every time I turned left. He looked at me as though I was not of this planet.

Get some much needed and earned sleep, Lyla. Sweet dreams.

 

Holy!!! What a busy day for Butters!! Slow down, girl I'm glad you were able to bring her back up.
Sorry about the debit card situation. Hopefully that gets straightened out quickly.
Have a good night and a restful sleep

 

Glad you are going to get a good sleep tonight, what a day
you had.