19/02 Hercules AMPS 47, +1 100, +2 160, +9 67, +10 54, PMPS 68

Morning everyone,

Woke up to another quite low pre-shoot measurement. I woke up the whole night, and did thoughat +9 that perhaps I should feed him again, but decided against it as it was so low in the cycle and really wanted to see if I can trust to sleep when he is blueish.... But it seems like nadir at +12 is his thing? what does people think, I dodn't thnk he ewas breaking a bounce?

 

Did you shoot that 47?

 

I did....

 

The last 3 morning cycles he had a similar patter of going low after +7 and having quite a low PMPS and then going back up... so I am hoping will happen here? At least is the morning so I can monitor every half an hour... Am I crazy? Do tell me.

 

OK. So you do not shoot below 50. When it is high 40s (close to 50), you can stall without feeding and see if he comes over 50 and then shoot.
What have you fed him?

 

You feed a little LC when you get a falling green at +9 so that he doesn't fall too low to shoot.

 

I gave him his usual LC but with honey to get him out of his low fast. I tested him half an hour later and he was already on 92

 

Weren't you supposed to reduce under 50?

 

I know... I did think about giving a bit of food @ +9 last night when I saw the 5.1, but I always do feed so I wanted to see what happen if I didn't... Now I have my suspicions confirmed....

 

It is within meter error variance....

Ok, I get it, I went a bit too keen here! But his past cycles are not really convincing that this dose was too much....

 

Take the reduction. You don't want another cycle like the 12th where you are struggling to keep him up.

 

I hear you Bhooma, but I feel like this 47 was more my stupidity for not feeding him at +9 than a clear need for reduction? He is back up quite fast....

Can I pick your brain about his current patterns? I still don't see a mid-cycle nadir. I understand that when breaking a bounce numbers go down throughout the day, but I don't think he was bouncing in the last few days, do you? Does that mean he just has a wonky cycle and I should perhaps change his feeding to start later in the cycle?

 

Yes, the dip below 50 could have been prevented with some LC at +9. Something for next time

In my very limited experience, I have not seen a cat bob up and down in a cycle like Herc does. I have to look at his SS more closely and see if the bobbing up and down is only in long green cycles where HC could be causing a temporary bump that wears off and he goes back down. If you see his other cycles, there is a gentle decline to a late nadir.

OK. Am off for my yoga class. Will come back and take another look.

Hopefully someone with more experience like @Gill & George and @Sue and Luci will weigh in!

 

Definitely take the reduction tonight to 0.25.
And you never shoot below 50.
You will need to be very careful, this cycle. Can you make sure you get a test no later than +2 (I might even go for a +1.5) the honey you gave him will have worn off and if he onsets at the same time as that happens you may see him drop below 50 again.

If he doesn't hold the reduction you just have to call it a failed reduction ad come back up.

Last night you didn't give him a snack at +9 but what did you feed in that cycle.
He seems to like to nadir late.
I'm just about to have lunch, but I'll take a look at his SS and see

 

He seems to like to Nadir late.

I realize that the greens in the 50's and low 60s may make you nervous, but I think you should try and reserve the HC for when he drops below 50.
Use food to manage his curve but try to use LC (maybe on the higher end)
When you are intervening with HC when he is in the 50's and 60's, for extended periods at times, you are artificially bolstering his numbers, and delaying the reduction, when the reduction does come the depot is quite full and that ends up being a crazy cycle, where he spends a long time in those lower numbers and you fighting to keep him up.
feb 16
+11 he was 50 in the am cycle you gave honey and shot on time an 80, when you get a low number like that within that 2 hour window, two options, one don't feed, and see what happens. or give him a teaspoon of LC, just a small amount. Given he does like to nadir late in the cycle, he has had a few at +12, you might want to get into the habbit of testing at +10 and if he is dropping ore low, giving him some LC at +10, that way you still have your 2 hour window without food before the PS.
After you shot he came up a bit at +2 then dropped. You fed +1 +2+3 mix of( LC and HC/ 20g with a teaspoon or was it a tablespoon?) Then he was in the 50's by +6 so you used some HC at +6 and +7. +9 he was 112.
I think next time he is in his 50's midcycle or later try giving him some LC and see if he will surf for you. He had a lot of HC that cycle and you also intervened with HC late in the previous cycle, this is Hercules trying to say something, if you are having to intervene with HC to keep him from going below 50, maybe the dose is a little too much for him?

Feb 17
Again in the pm you used HC late in the pm cycle, to bump him up from 59. (he makes it hard for you with those late drops at night), another strategy might have been to feed a couple of teaspoons of LC at that point check him 30min later and see if was going to surf, if he had stayed flat or gone up, you could have given him another LC snack and got to bed a whole hour and half earlier.

I think you need to step back from the HC, reserve it for drops below 50, use it, by all means, if you have an emergency and can't monitor, but try not to make it the norm when he is still in those dark greens.

The way he earned the reduction from 0.75 to 0.5 u with a number of hours of fighting those low numbers was probably as a result of the depot becoming overfull as a result of steering his numbers a bit to aggressively with HC a few cycles earlier. Consequently he dropped to below 50 just two cycles and a skip into the reduced dose.

Steering his numbers is a good way to flatten him out and get him to spend more time in green, but if you are having to do it using a significant amount of HC then Hercules is probably trying to tell you that he's had enough of the dose.

I hope you find that helpful. Let me know if you have anymore questions.

It looks like he may have started a bounce with that +2 but I wouldn't trust him.
You might want to get a +4. If he is still in high blues, you may want to get some spot checks in the latter part of the cycle. +7/+8 and +10


I

 

Thanks Gill. I feel like is a fine line between propping him up to stay on green and too much.... but I hear what you are saying and am trying to step back, hence not feeding him last night at +9

I am monitoring him today, I just work that needed tended to so have not updated the SS. I will reluctantly follow advice and drop the dose tonight. I really need the sleep! that is partly why I am giving lot of HC at night... to try to get bits of sleep.... let's hope a dose reduction sort everything out!

 

I figured that's what happened the last two nights.
You need to get to a point where you can trust that he will surf.

It is. You just have to remain conscious of how much you are having to fight with those numbers to keep him up.

if it turns out he is a late nadir cat, you may need to feed at +9 or +10 (LC though)

See how his cycles pan out with a little less intervention with the HC.

 

Will do. Already testing todays, as he is picking up steem at +7....

 

So, I am holding up on feeding him, but he is still slowly going down...it is quite possible if he continues this trajectory that he will be quite low at PMPS again, or maybe not.... Should I give him some food at +10 if he is lower still? or see what he does without support?

 

Feed now. Don't wait till +10. You don't want a food influenced number.
And please take the reduction!

 

I will!

I fed him a bit before +10, so I think PMPS would be ok... however, I am not convinced the 15g I gave will be enough to keep him up....

 

Looks like you might have to skip tonight. Do not shoot a food influenced number please. He is telling you again that he is ready for a reduction.
Am headed to bed so tagging:

@tiffmaxee
@Gill & George

 

I would skip and drain the depot since you need to feed. A reduction was earned so nothing to prove. Congrats on the reduction!

 

I had a feeling he was going to do this.
Do you think you could get a +11?

If he has dropped below 50,
I would suggest you give him some HC and skip the shot.
That way you may be able to get some rest and start him on 0.25 tomorrow.
Font worry about the skip he's recovered well from those before. I think, as we discussed his depot is overful.

 

What did you feed at +10?

 

15g LC. I meassured at 10.5 and had gone up to 76. I'll read again 30 minutes before PMPS, which is in half an hour.

 

sorry for delay replies. lots going on today....

 

Don't worry.

I want to give you something to think about.

If you shoot tonight the depot from the 0.5u will still be affecting his cycle, even if you shoot the reduced dose of 0.25u, and there is a reasonable chance that he will have a low cycle, and you may need to monitor and feed through the night. Looking at your ss it looks like you haven't had much sleep the last few days.

If you decide to skip, though you will need to just check him in the early part of the cycle, before you head to bed, you will most likely be able to get a good nights rest. The depot will drain some and you can start on the 0,25u dose in the morning.

 

Just checked before official PMPS, and he has come down a bit: 63

 

I almost always fed my late nadir girl from +9 to +9.5. It helped make sure she was safe to shoot. Of course, there were times overnight when I didn't get up and feed and woke up to the 40's. I always waited 15-20 minutes without feeding and retested, and shot when she popped up over 50.

Lantus cats will often do a "double dip", where they do a smaller dip at the end of the cycle, but not as low as the main nadir. Let's see what +12 brings.

 

I would like nothing more than a solid 5 hour of sleep, that is not too much to ask is it?
That being said, the thing that is really bugging me, is that my guess is that he will go up in the beggining of the cycle as I start feeding him. That is what he usually does.
So I stay up to feed him all this small meals in the begining of the cycle, and then I need to stay up because he is going down later in the cycle...Maybe I shouldn't start feeding him until +2?

 

on the other hand I did not feed him any HC today! But he did got 33% more food than he should in a day...

 

He's been known to dive hard by +2, 2/13 PM as an example. You want to get food in and being processed before he onsets, which means more like +1.5.

 

so, official PMPS 68.... I am thorn... 0.25 (the reduced dose) is half of what he has been having. He is over 50, and did not require HC today. That suggest I should go ahead and shoot?

On the other hand you'all seem to be suggesting I should skip? am I reading this correctly?

 

The skip suggestion is for you, not for Hercules. Sounds like you could use some sleep.

 

I think that if you shoot you will likely have a very busy night, because of the depot of the 0,5u. So you may not get much sleep, especially if you are trying not to feed HC until he drops below 50.
The skip and shooting the reduced dose might be easier on you.

He is at a safe number to shoot, but you should be aware of what that might mean in the cycle tonight.

But you are right he did have a nice cycle and surfed with just the LC, good job on managing that today. (he did have HC at shot time though)
I will be heading to bed soon and I cannot stay up with you, I have a very early start tomorrow.

 

Now that is a very good argument! I have become quite addicted to blues and greens and get very disheartened when a yellow creep up, but I probably owe to myself a little shut eye... I am skipping!
Thank you all!

 

Get a good night’s sleep. I was thinking skip.