2/22 Sandy OT: Questions about CKD

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by Liz & Sandy, Feb 22, 2021.

  1. Liz & Sandy

    Liz & Sandy Member

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    Jan 15, 2021
    Thank you Bron! I couldn’t of done it without your’s and other members help! But you stuck with me on my endless nights up along Sandy and I can’t thank you enough!
    Now I’m dealing with results from his blood work few days ago. Kidney levels still high, food recommended is lower protein, higher carb, low phosphate.
    This is my next dilemma .
    If you can send anyone my way that knows info on best diet for cat with diabetes and Kidney issues I’d appreciate it. looks like ff is high on phosphate but I’m going to call the company just to verify
     
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  2. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, unfortunately FF are high in phosphorus. I recommend the Weruva BFF P.L.A.Y. pates. Low carb, low phos.

    I would not go with low protein for a CKD cat. That's old school thinking. You could try a slightly reduced protein if you want, with a higher fat content, but don't raise carbs too much. As long as your kitty doesn't have a lot of GI issues you should be okay with an increased fat content. There are lists... I bet somebody here will post one before I get a chance to... :) everybody here is so helpful!
     
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  3. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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  4. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi Liz another member had posted this whise cat had diabetes and CKD


    Weruva slide and serve pate foods Family Food (.97 phosphorus and 0 carb). Also Jeopurrdy Chicken (0.97 P 6.1 carb)

    What a Crock 0.71 phosphorus and 8 carb lots of gravy so she loves it.

    Goody stew shoes 0.71 phosphorus, 8.5 carb. This one is a big hit

    Weruva Steak Frites (0.57 phosphorus 5.5 carb although I take out any big pieces of potatoes to try to limit the carbs just a bit)

    Weruva LA isla Bonita - phosphorus 0.77 carb 4.5 (used to like, not a favorite anymore)
    Glam and punk 1% carb, 0.93 phosphorous.

    Weruva paw lickin chicken 3.3 carb 0.82 p and
    Press your lunch 5.9 carb. 0.82 phosphorous

    Bff play Laugh Out Loud chicken and lamb 7.7 carb, 0.82 phosphorous

    BFF play destiny (chicken and duck) 0.87 phosphorus 7.7 carb

    Bff play chicken cherish 0.71 phosphorus 7.6 carb

    Bff play best buds chicken and beef 7.9 carb 0.9 phosphorus

    Bff play chicken Checkmate. 7.7 carb 0.7 phos

    New favorite On the Cat Wok 3.8 carb 0.74 phos
     
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  5. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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  6. Suzanne & Darcy

    Suzanne & Darcy Well-Known Member

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    Yes! I use a lot of those foods, too. Darcy doesn't have kidney disease at this time, but I like to go with lower phosphorus to be easier on his kidneys.
     
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  7. Liz & Sandy

    Liz & Sandy Member

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    Jan 15, 2021
    Ok thank you for the info! I will definitely grab some of that food and try it out!
     
  8. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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    George has CKD, he is in remission.
    He gets low carb and I keep his phosphorus below 1%m the lower you can get him to eat the better. I also add a little water to his food so that he drinks enough to keep him hydrated and flush out his system, it helps the kidneys.
    Another thing that CKD cats can be prone to is acid tummy, leading to foamy vomit, it tends to happen if they don't eat regular, so regular snacks of his food help with that.

    A home made diet is an alternative @Bron and Sheba (GA) will give you more info on that but in the meantime here is a link to a thread on the think tank, where bron has put some info together
    https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/home-prepared-diet-of-crd-cats.150441/
     
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  9. Liz & Sandy

    Liz & Sandy Member

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    Thank you I’m going to check it out right now.
    Can I ask what you feed George? I’d like to definitely do something lower in phosphates.
    I heard mention of phosphate binders?
    What do you think about that?
    Sandy is already so picky with food I’m afraid to put an additive on it and him not eat it
     
  10. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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    Oct 27, 2015
    I haven't used them, or needed to, his P is at a good level, so far, and George is not picky with food, so the change wasn't difficult to make.
    Do you have the results of the Blood Test? We can get a member to look at the results and tell you what would be appropriate.
    If his P is high that can be contributing to him being picky as it can make them feel a bit sick. Did the vet mention a binder?

    If you can't get him to eat a lower P food then a binder is a good option.
    Our vet hasn't wanted to put George on a therapeutic kidney diet, because the carbs are too much and that would be counterproductive because of his diabetes, no binders because his P is normal.

    Did the vet mention what what stage CKD he was at?
    George also got his CKD diagnosis when he was doing his OTJ trial. I took him in for a routine blood test.
     
  11. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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  12. Liz & Sandy

    Liz & Sandy Member

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  13. Liz & Sandy

    Liz & Sandy Member

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    upload_2021-2-22_15-53-31.png
     
  14. Liz & Sandy

    Liz & Sandy Member

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  15. Liz & Sandy

    Liz & Sandy Member

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  16. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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    I can't see it. It's too small.
    On the SS there is a tab for the lab results, if you have time you could put them in there, I keep mine there so I can track the changes from one test to another.
     
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  17. Liz & Sandy

    Liz & Sandy Member

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    Ok
     
  18. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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    tag me when you manage to get the numbers in then we will get someone look at those.

    Did the vet say what stage kidney disease he was?
     
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  19. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    @Gill & George
    The BG kidney numbers were very high when Sandy had DKA. They have gradually come down... am wondering if they have dropped as far as they are going to.
     
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  20. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Hi Liza,
    Did you have a chance to read the thread about the home made CRD diet that I used for Sheba?
    Are you interested in making Sandy’s food?
    As you live in the US you should be able to buy the supplements as a single package instead of buying all the different bottles of supplements. I couldn’t do that here in Australia at the time and had to buy all the different supplements.
    You would need a supplement that used egg shell powder instead of bone for the calcium as the bone is high in phosphorus and you need to avoid that.
    If you could buy a supplement with the egg shell powder in it for the calcium, you would then only need to buy the muscle meat.
    I didn’t use a grinder for the meat but used to cut it up myself. It’s up to you what you would want to do.

    First you would need to establish that Sandy would eat the raw meat.....or if you wanted to cook it, that would be ok too.
    I would try him with a few different cuts of meat such as chicken, beef, lamb and pork to see if he will eat it.
    If he likes it you could then move on to deciding what brand of supplement you would use. We will be able to give you some ideas on that.

    To lower the phosphorus levels in the meat, you can add 1/2 cooked egg white mashed in the food every day. That and the egg shell powder that is in the supplement substantially lowers the phosphorus level. The egg yoke is too high in phosphorus so don’t use that....give that to the dogs.

    I find that feeding a home made diet is much cheaper than buying canned cat food.
    I freeze it and bring it out of the freezer each night for the next day.

    If you think you might like to go down the track of a homemade diet, let me know, and I will go into more detail for you.
     
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  21. Liz & Sandy

    Liz & Sandy Member

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    Ok I took a look and it looks like I have to put in the numbers. Hopefully I can get to it today
     
  22. Liz & Sandy

    Liz & Sandy Member

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    Yes they were. On Jan 8th completely normal, the 4 days later on antibiotics he went into ER with 4.6, there it went to 6.9, then started going back down.
    I’m praying that it continues to improve and gets at least below 2.3, but I am afraid if 2.6 is where he’s going to stay. Now I’ll have to research CKDand learn all about it.
    I did join a FB page and starting to read info on there
     
  23. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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    the creatinine?
     
  24. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    I moved all this discussion on CKD out of the OTJ party condo.
     
  25. Liz & Sandy

    Liz & Sandy Member

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    Thank you so much for this. I will for sure grab probably a can of most of these and see what he will eat as he’s being very picky
     
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  26. Liz & Sandy

    Liz & Sandy Member

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    Sorry for the late response Bron,
    I finally hit my crash point and got to rest but my sleeping schedule is still wacky.
    My husband and I tested positive for covid 19 on the 11th and have been dealing with that as well.
    He experienced flu like symptoms, fever, nausea, sore muscles, throwing up. He’s still very tired and weak but much better than last week. I on the other hand had 1 symptom on the 8th and that was it thank goodness. Our quarantine period is over thank God all is better. Both my dogs have recovered from whatever they had going on as well.
    Just when I think nothing else can happen sure enough it does. I don’t know how much more I can take but as long as all my furry kiddos are ok I’m good.
    Sandy has gained some of his appetite back past couple of days, he’s only eating wet food if I water it down but at least he’s eating.
    I definitely would like to try this for him and see how it goes. I’m trying to figure out what I can do to help his kidney function now so that maybe that 2.6 number comes down a bit more. Crossing fingers he can heal a little more
    I’m heading out today to pick up some low carb low phosphate food that was suggested on here.
     
  27. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    I’m sorry to hear you have both had COVID. I hope you both recover fully very soon. Take it easy.
    I see you have not posted the lab results into the lab section of the SS. When you do I’ll ask Marje to have a look at them.
    When do you get the latest results?
     
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  28. Liz & Sandy

    Liz & Sandy Member

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    Jan 15, 2021
    I’ve got it do you know where I can attach a copy? Or do the numbers need to be put in individually?
     
  29. Liz & Sandy

    Liz & Sandy Member

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    Sandy has his appointment with new vet today, I’m crossing my fingers for this vet to be better than the one I’ve had. Hopefully she will check him well and get a good game plan going for him
     
  30. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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    I'm afraid you have to pop them in manually
     
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  31. Liz & Sandy

    Liz & Sandy Member

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    Ok will do that. Thank you
     
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