2/23 Darcy PMPS 387, +2 298, +3 362, +4 365 BUT WE'RE GETTING CABERGOLINE!!!!

Okay, I could not wait to get home today to write to everyone. I was sitting in my car waiting for my kids and the phone rang and it was my vet! We are going to start Darcy on Cabergoline! Yesterday, I shared with her the case studies that Wendy had shared with me, and I addressed some of the (bad) points that the vet from UGA had brought up in his email last week to support his conclusion that Cabergoline is not something we should try. She looked at all that and has done some research on her own and is going to prescribe it for Darcy! I'm pleased.

She did ask me whether I waned to give it once a day or twice a day. She said that in her research, she had found that some of the studies in the UK were using an every other day dose. Wendy, have you heard of this? Everyone here is using a daily dose, are they not?

They are going to order it and I hope it will be here soon.

Now, I haven't tested Darcy that much today because his numbers are up and I knew they would be discouraging since he got a 2 unit increase today. I thought this would be a good opportunity to give him a break from testing so frequently. Also... I was out for most of the afternoon. He already was over 400 this morning. Then I did a +4, then I fed him and left the house. I'm about to grab a PMPS on him in 15 minutes though and we'll see what to do.... I'm not sure whether to give him the 2.5 R. I think I will, since I am home for the rest of the day/evening and he's been running high.

Oh, and he seems to be getting very heavy. Before he became diabetic (March 2019) he weighed 17.52, then in May 2020 he weighed 15.68. This is when I suspected that, with his weight loss, excessive drinking, etc. he either had CKD or diabetes. But anyway, my point is that he is now 16.8 lbs. He was only 16.3 lbs. less than a week ago. He does eat a lot. I feel like I should not be letting him eat so much??
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/2-22-darcy-pmps-339-2-327-3-310-4-400.243526/

 

YAY THAT'S WONDERFUL NEWS!!!!!!! That's such a good vet to take on board what you had to say and agree to going on cabergoline! I'm sure you'll eventually see great results on it too

 

Thank you!!!

 

How is Mo? He's not still in pain is he? I was inquiring about what causes him so much pain? Is it pancreatitis?

 

That is fantastic news! Just goes to show what an amazing resource this group is, and how much vets need to be taught about feline diabetes. Glad your vet had an open mind. Hope it helps Mr. Darcy.

 

That is SO TRUE! I do wish everyone could see that so clearly!

 

Agreed. There's no other group out there quite like this one. Y'all are best!

 

Woohoo! So glad you had what you needed and the vet was willing to listen to you on the cabergoline. RVC always gave cabergoline once a day. There is a group in South America that were giving it every other day, though also some every day. Might want to read more on this post, more on the South American study starting at post 30.

More yellows please Mr. Darcy.

 

Yeah!!! That is great news! Howie also had a weight gain which could be partially the acromegaly and partially from when I was doubling his calories to fatten him up. He was down to 8 pounds in Sept and then got up to 13.1 pounds in Dec. I switched his food that is fewer calories and I know he has lost some weight. I was getting nervous as I didn’t need an obese cat on my hands! Even my partner thinks he’s lost weight.

I’m not sure where you are from but many of us get it from a Wedgewood Pharmacy. He gets a dose every AM. I’ve heard it is pretty bitter. Some people get marshmallow flavor to offset the bitterness (there is also a bacon marshmallow flavor). My vet, not knowing that’s what I would have wanted, ordered chix flavor. He doesn’t seem to notice it mixed in his food.

 

I meant to comment on the weight thing too. Neko had some Maine Coon heritage, so was a bigger cat, but we made a pact that she wasn't going to get as high as 15 lbs. My vet wanted her above 13. So I controlled the food and weighed regularly so she didn't get too big. Many acros end up with arthritis as a side effect, and extra weight definitely does not help there. With acros, you will find that a lot of the weight is also muscle. I've see them referred to as little foot ball players. Anyway growth hormone and IGF-1 are two instrumental in muscle growth too. As well as the side effects of extra bone and soft tissue growth. So it's not all fat you are dealing with. Body composition is important too.

 

Sooo true. Howie has gotten quite strong. When he gets squirmy feisty if he doesn’t want to do a test (or trim his toe nails), he’s quite a handful!

 

We talked about ordering the fish flavor? It seems odd that a cat would like marshmallow?? But do you mean the sweetness might offset the bitterness? My vet said that in her experience dogs like the marshmallow flavor and that so do some of the exotic pets that she sees. (She is one of the very few vets around here who sees exotic pets and she does all the exotics for the local museum of arts and sciences.). But anyway I was thinking marshmallow is a weird flavor for cats to like.

 

It was mentioned in a few of the lengthier posts about cabergoline that is on the Acro forum when people asked about flavors. I do think it is because the medication is so bitter, so the sweetness offsets it.

 

Didn’t you first order pills for Howie? Or was that someone else. I do have concerns about giving liquid meds. None of my cats like liquid meds. I can easily pill them, but liquids... that’s another story.

 

Darcy has quite large belly these days.

 

N

Nope...no pills. The liquid mixes in with his food. I guess I've not heard that cabergoline comes in pill form (??) I've only heard of the liquid. I'm lucky that he hasn't been finicky about taking medications except for when we had to remove all his chompers the first couple of weeks after I got him. That was a nightmare for him and I!

 

Howie did too. I never could tell if he had the acro pot belly or if he was just getting fat!! And the dangly fat pooch between his back legs got quite large. But this has all gotten better after I switched up his food from turkey to pork. It also helped the smelliness of his litter box deposits too!

 

How long have you had Howie?

Oh, and I think it was Erin and Moe who used pills for a while. Poor Moe passed away in early January and I don't know if Erin is still on the list. I remember I lost my Julius on January 4 of this year and she lost Moe maybe a day before that. I think she tried compounded pills.

 

I got Howie March 24...my pandemic pet. Our humane society shut down for COVID but a friend had a coworker whose brother passed away unexpectedly last Feb and they were trying to rehome Howie. I hope Im as good of a pet mommy as his previous daddy was.

 

Aaaw. That’s so wonderful. And did you know he was diabetic when you first adopted him? I guess not if your signature says he was diagnosed in late June. Did you know anything about feline diabetes when you adopted him. Or you’ve had a crash course in FD, IAA, and acromegaly (stomatitis too?).

 

Total crash course. He came to me on a diet of meow mix and friskies and checked out healthy as a horse when he “inherited” me last March (except his teeth).

 

But you switched his diet to pork? Your signature says that you feed Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein Turkey. Is that what you used to feed him before the pork? How did you decide to do this and why did you decide pork was better for him? Sorry for all the questions!

 

Ohh...thanks for the reminder to change that as I switched him to pork recently for a couple reasons...his litter box deposits were REALLY smelly (like wake you up in the night smelly!), so I had gotten some advice to switch him to a more novel protein as turkey and chicken can cause GI upsets. I didn’t think he would like duck or rabbit, but the same manufacturer that made his turkey food also makes pork. The switch has reduced the smell factor significantly! The other reason for the change was COVID related...the company had problems with some of their manufacturing plants so couldn’t make all their food. Luckily they got the pork food back into production. It is much more $ than the turkey, but he likes it, is low carb, and doesn’t have additives like carrageenan and guar gum that also upset his stomach. Hopefully he doesn’t tire of it as pork food is not easy to find!

 

Hi. Would you say that since starting the Cabergoline his insulin requirements have gone down? It looked like they were going down, but then started to go back up. I just can't seem to make progress with Darcy. He just won't budge... or if he looks like he is starting to budge... he goes back up again.

 

How did I miss this. Congrats on getting cabergoline. I used the bacon/marshmallow flavor as recommended by Wedgewood Pharmacist. The marshmallow (sugarfree) offsets the bitterness of active ingredient. I just squirted it in side of her mouth usually while she was sleeping.

Due diligence pays off. Did you have to change vets?

 

Hi Paula! I did not have to change vets. I presented my vet with some of the information from here and she also apparently did some research on her own at that point to try to learn more about who is using Cabergoline and how much they are using, etc. And she was fine with me trying it. I had a feeling that she might be, because she's been very good in the past to let me try things. She knows that I fight hard when my cats are ill... maybe too hard... maybe too long sometimes. She knows I read a lot to try to find options. She probably knew I was determined anyway. I said it could be our experiment and I'd keep her informed of what was going on.

I wish we had gone for the marshmallow flavor, too. Marshmallow bacon seems so funny. I may want to talk to you more about how you altered Olive's dose based on symptoms. I know you tried different doses until she seemed a lot better. I don't even know what the starting dose is or what the mcg per kg of cat is supposed to be. My vet said something about making it concentrated so that there should hopefully not be a great volume of liquid going in? I suppose the compounding pharmacy can do that. Thanks!!

 

I told the vet on first visit that I can be overbearing and pushy. I want what I want unless she can provide documents it would be detrimental. You know what she said back, "I can be the same way, I will tell you to back off if I have to". I'm like whoa "so you will take Ollie on as patient?" She said yes. .

Since Dr nor I knew anything about it, I suggested she use Ollie as a case study and write a paper to help and or educate others trying to get treatment.

One thing about the suspension is you can change flavor with next order. Or call pharmacy right away and ask to change flavor before they make it.

I think dose is 10mcg/kg but not sure anymore. But there are different concentrations of it. Amethyst I think is a higher concentration than I had. Ollie started 60 mcg which was 0.6 ml. HOWEVER, Dr ordered to give 0.9 ml so there was room to increase and I got more for my money.

 

@Suzanne & Darcy

Depending on where you are getting it from, there are a few tricks I learned. I have run into it getting lost in mail, being late on holiday weekends, not refilling early enough, asking for extra syringe, protect from light.

When you get it, hopefully not to long. Tag me I can let you know what worked for me.

 

Thanks so much, Paula! I'm hoping soon. My vet ordered it for me, and I'll pick it up from them when it arrives. I appreciate that. I don't even know which pharmacy they ordered it from. I discussed Wedgewood, Diamondback and Road Runner with the vet. Her Vet Tech usually does all the ordering of meds for her. I hope to start next week.