? 2/26 Fred +2 406, AMPS 426, +4 312, +7 192, PMPS 163, stall 45 min 148, +2 125 Say What??

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by Purrberry, Feb 27, 2021.

  1. Purrberry

    Purrberry Member

    Dec 11, 2020
    Had VERY unexpected readings from Fred yesterday. This is Fred. Fred who does not DO blues, and certainly not for hours. I can literally count on one hand the times we’ve had a blue. So I’m surprised, to say the least.

    After his usual lousy AMPS, I was anticipating our average day of pinks and reds. You can see how the day progressed on his SS.

    I panicked at the PMPS number, fed him, and stalled for 45 minutes. When the BS went DOWN, I said, “OK, no way am I shooting this.” Fred is on 5u BID, and though I’d shoot if he were at, say, 192, there was no way I was shooting at 148. Then I started thinking that no insulin at all was just not a good idea, given where Fred usually is, so I ended up giving him 2u. I couldn’t believe when he was lower STILL at +2. The anticipated bounce showed up this AM.

    Did I do the right thing??

    Mitigating factor(s)?: Fred threw up his dinner on Thursday night, and brekkie on Friday morning. However, both times, he went ahead and ate a “replacement meal” of the same size shortly thereafter. So it’s not like he was working insulin on an empty stomach. However, he looked uncomfortable, especially Thursday night, so I managed to get a Cerenia in him Friday morning. He was really zonked and slept the day away.

    Additionally, both his water consumption and his urination have slowed quite a bit these past 10 days or so. We’ve slowly gone, especially in the last week, from 6-7 pees a day, to 5, 4, 3…and amazingly, just 2 yesterday. Yesterday I understand, but I’m somewhat heartened to see this overall trend occurring. Any BS number I seem to get lies in the range of suck, but maybe there’s something going on “behind the scenes”? I can only hope. He had two Libres placed this week, one by my vet, and one by my husband and me, and Fred got both of them off. :banghead:

    Finally, I had Fred tested for IAA/Acro. I was to have the results yesterday, but FedEx delayed the overnight package by over two days. Last I heard, it had finally arrived at MSU, and they were going to check if the sample was still viable. They told my vet that if there was no word from them by Thursday evening, they could use the sample. Again, I can only hope, on so many fronts.
    Butters & Lyla likes this.
  2. Liz & Minnie

    Liz & Minnie Member

    Feb 4, 2021
    The only thing that stopped Minnie getting the last Libre off was this soft collar - I tried a few designs but the lion was the best, soft and velvety with a big velcro strip. She wore it flipped down like a skirt though, not like the picture. It was a softer pillow than a plastic cone of shame and she couldn't get at the Libre at all, unlike the baby onesie and pet pj's which would get wrapped round a tooth when she tried to pull them off. She even got one of the Libres off through the pjs, she then kicked it out of the sleeve.

    Unfortunately we can't use the Libre anymore, vet thinks she has developed an allergy to the adhesive which is also a known human issue - there's a very large Facebook group on the topic. She was fine with the first 5 in the first 5 months, but then we had 3 on back to back in 2 weeks (sensors failed) and the skin was awful, ripped off and scabby when removed. Gave her a break then she started trying to chew them off and every one left ugly scabby donut rings in her skin/fur. Vet thinks reaction was getting worse and potentially influencing the BG numbers so now it's all ear pokes. Anyway, the lion collar was an effective deterrent and...she got to be a LION.

    Looks like Fred is in the same color palette as Minnie right now. It's nerve-wracking to suddenly see yellows and blues when you're used to reds and blacks, isn't it?? Good luck.
  3. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Feb 28, 2012
    Blues are awesome progress! :cool: As for what to do when you see them at preshot, it depends partly on the dosing method you've decided to follow, and your data and experience. Lantus is great at keeping lower preshots low and flatter. They don't drop the same amount as they do from higher numbers. One of the reasons I really liked lower preshots, more predictable. The reason Fred's numbers kept dropping last night is that he was breaking a bounce - typically cycles look like a long downward slide when that happens. Also, if you stall without food, that can also cause numbers to go down. The Lantus depot will also influence the following cycle, and that's why you saw blues going into the next cycle.

    One other thing these blues bring home, you really do need to start getting preshots tests each and every time. I see it's Mike not you, but what happened if Fred and been blue (or lower) and you'd blindly shot full dose. I had a hard time convincing my hubby to test, though he was fine with shots. So I know it's a work in progress. Maybe you can use last night as the reason he needs to learn to test.

    It'll really help us help you if you can take a look at the Dosing Methods Sticky Note and decide which one you'd like to follow, then put TR or SLGS in your signature.

    I saw some pictures in this article, page 1099, of ways people keep the Libre on: (2020) Updates in Feline Diabetes Mellitus and Hypersomatrotropism

    Bummer on the shipping of the blood work. I timed mine exactly wrong so it got there a day late and had to wait an extra week for the results. :banghead: They only run the IGF-1 test one day a week.
  4. Butters & Lyla

    Butters & Lyla Well-Known Member

    May 30, 2020
    Beautiful blues:cool:.
    I’m so happy to read that Fred’s symptoms are subsiding. That is so encouraging!
    Paws are crossed here that MSU can still use the blood sample.
  5. Purrberry

    Purrberry Member

    Dec 11, 2020
    Hello @Liz & Minnie. I actually have the "pink flower" version of that soft cone, but never was able to try it. Fred was scheduled to have surgery to remove a little mast cell tumor from his face in mid-December, but ended up with the diabetes diagnosis instead! But it's a good idea-thank you! The Libres are so immensely helpful when they work, but it does always seem to be a struggle. Fred's first Libre stayed on for the whole two weeks, but his skin was really ripped up when it came off. It was likely because of all the glue they used, but then again, it DID stay on. It was buggy, though...lots of "check again in 10 minutes" and missing data. Still, it was a great data gatherer. Looks like Minnie might be turning a corner?? Good luck!

    @Wendy&Neko I'm a little confused...so what you're saying is that when the number is lower when you shoot, it doesn't have as much of a drop? Like not a 200 point drop as it can do from a very high preshot? That's very good to know-thank you! I am following SLGS at this point, torturous though it may be when he's sitting in higher numbers. That may change soon, though.

    As for the missing preshot number, I know. :( It was the main focus of the last "discussion" my husband and I last had concerning Fred. It is definitely a work in progress. He has no problem with the shots, but the ear is another story. And worse, I have to travel in a few weeks. My long-time pet sitter will do the insulin, but she won't test. It's one of the reasons I desperately want a Libre on him for that time. But if he's worked a way to get it off... Compounding this is that my pet sitter only feels confident shooting in the scruff. So I can't really place the Libre there to have those nice little collars. I'm very worried. I may be back to talk about vacation dosing.

    I know. :-(( I didn't realize they only run the test on Wednesdays, so it's another week of waiting.

    Thank you @Butters & Lyla! I hope the trend continues, and I hope Butters is feeling better!
  6. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Dec 28, 2009
    You're interpreting Wendy's post correctly. If you have a few minutes, take a look at some of the spreadsheets of kitty's that are in green or lower blue numbers at shot time. You'll often see a flat cycle. However, don't assume that it's always the case. There can be a lot of factors that may influence a cycle that starts on a lower pre-shot number.
  7. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Feb 28, 2012
    Good to know, do you mind putting SLGS in your signature - then we'll stop asking. ;)

    I'm glad Sienne answered about the dropping numbers and with the suggestion to look at other people's spreadsheets, and even just looking at the subject titles can help. When new, I found it really helpful to read other people's posts, especially new people. cause they often had similar questions to mine.

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