27/2 Chico PMPS 232; +2 270

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by Marina & Chico, Feb 27, 2021.

  1. Marina & Chico

    Marina & Chico Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2021
    Due to high foliate, since yesterday PM cycle we had to switch to another meal which is 6.5% carbs (compared to 2% carbs) but is low in fat. This is a temporary measure in order to see if the foliate level would decrease.

    Chico usually bounces for 1 max 2 cycles.

    It's been 5 cycles and Chico has not come down yet. Could you please advice if the 6.5% food could have caused higher BG and how long until we can consider a dose increase

    Previous day thread

    Thanks in advance for your help
     
  2. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    Hi Marina,
    I haven't been on all day and was just looking to see how you guys were doing.
    The 6.5% carbs shouldn't affect his BG dramatically. It is still low carb. Was the food high fat or high foliate?

    I was expecting him to clear this bounce by now. Sometimes they change theyre patterns.
    I would perhaps give him 6 cycles to see if he clears the bounce, especially as he nadired at 68 (not much room for manoevre) if he doesn't see green tonight or tomorrow morning I would take his dose up to 2u tomorrow night.
    If he gives you a flat yellow cycle tonight, that can sometimes happen just before a bounce breaks.
     
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  3. Marina & Chico

    Marina & Chico Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2021
    His good was 6% fat, the vet recommended gastrointestinal veterinary foods, which are low in fat. Since gastro foods are usually high in carbs we didn't want to go that way. We are currently trying to use Cosma + if i manage to get all ingredients homemade in a few days to see if he reacts to it. The high folate indicates some inflammation process in the intestines, which we are trying to calm with low fat food.

    we are hoping for better values for a few days now, we are just not certain anymore this is a bounce (and yes, i understand that bounces seem endless to everyone:) ).

    Nonetheless at +4 he surprised us with a 230 so we have our fingers crossed :D thanks for the clarification, we will wait at least until tomorrow night for a dose increase.

    Thanks for your help and clarification :)
     
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  4. Marina & Chico

    Marina & Chico Member

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    Jan 31, 2021
    Unless we get a blue preshot we should increase to 2u, right?
     
  5. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    hi
    a blue PS would possibly indicate that he is clearing the bounce.
    You might want to hold the 1.75 if he gives you a blue PS, increasing as he clears the bounce can add to the downward momentum.
     
  6. Marina & Chico

    Marina & Chico Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2021
    We would be extatic if we got a blue :(

    He got 407, i guess we increase then, right?
     
  7. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
  8. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    Hey how are you guys getting on.
    Maybe a bit of new dose wonkiness going on.

    I saw on the SS that he is still on the aptus attapectin? I thought that you were only going to use that for 5days? Perhaps new vet said to carry on? It's a bit concerning that it can interfere with absorption of vitamins and minerals, is it OK for longer term use, it seems like it's marketed for short term relief of GI upset (3 days)
    Did you realize it has corn starch in it? Which is a known allergen/intolerance for cats, may it also be influencing BG?
    It took a bit of digging to find somewhere that listed all the ingredients not just the active ones, from a Finnish site. (I had to google translate)
    https://www.orionvet.fi/kaikki-tuotteet/itsehoitovalmisteet/aptus-attapectin-tabletti/
     
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  9. Marina & Chico

    Marina & Chico Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2021
    Thank you Gill for bringing our attention to attapectin. Since we told the new vet that the first time attapectin helped she said we can use it for a week (until Wednesday) when we would have more results from the blood works. She prescribed it on purpose for ensuring that he doesn't lose any vitamins or minerals. This time thought it doesn't do much (at least we didn't notice any improvement) so we can just stop giving it to him. All his blood work (except high folic acid) was fine, so he is not malnourished, i guess there is no benefit from attapectin but since you mentioned starch it can be harming. We will stop giving him to see if it would help.

    The vet wants to do a biopsy if the change in diet doesn't help because she wants to exclude lymphome. He has a negative test for Fiv/Felv which we looked up online and seems to be the predominant cause for lymphome, plus lymphome has much more symptoms than "simple" diarrhea. Chico is except diarrhea doing fine, he is playful (even with high BG he is lazy playful :D ) he is cuddly and has good appetite. That is why we started looking more into the possibility of colon IBD. My plan for tonight is to research more about possible causes and ways to improve his condition.

    Now we want to start cooking for him, as you already said better to start with 1 protein type and i read that it is good to try gradually changing to new protein sources, to see which one works for him. We will start with chicken and then in a while if it won't work try turkey. Of course change in diet is on its own a reason for diarrhea so i am not certain how gradual should we do it not to bother his stomach even more. We kept on changing his diet lately too often. If i recall correctly you mentioned earlier that you are feeding homemade food as well, How did you introduce it to your cats? We know for a fact that Chico will love it, there are no worries there. We are still considering to try Thrive for a while, but since it is much more expensive, we probably won't be able to do it for too long and introducing a new temporary food won't help his GI. Of course there is always in the back of my head the constant question: what if Thrive would help? And to be honest if it did i would rather save on electricity in the house than on stopping his diarrhea...

    A few days ago we realized that even though the boulardi doesn't seem to help, it does reduce the number of times he goes to the toilet per day. The day when we didn't give him boulardi in the morning he went 3 times, whereas otherwise it is limited to 2 times. We took that as a good sign.

    On Wednesday we will have to go to the vet again for an Ultrasound and i am afraid that the next and only thing other thing she will propose will be a biopsy. I would hate to have to do an invasive procedure to Chico :( Have you ever have to do any invasive procedures to George?

    Regarding his BG we are worried he is not reacting to insulin as well as we expected and we were used to, we just try to have faith in the process and hope that with patience we will get there. We did increase the carbs in his food so maybe it could affect him as well but who knows...
     
  10. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    I will get you some info.
    There's s new test for lymphoma that doesn't require biopsy.

    George is on canned food. Not homemade. I know some other members with ibd experience, I'll get them to give you some info. Just about to take dogs out for their walk.
     
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  11. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    I've had a couple kitties now where I've had to answer the IBD vs. lymphoma question. I'm pretty sure the current one started with IBD and it transitioned to SCL. She did have an endoscopy that confirmed SCL. Before than there was periodic vomiting. When we adopted her, the rescue wanted us to continue the food she was on for a while. It contained fish and she vomited daily. I removed the fish immediately, on consult with the vet, and that improved her vomiting right away. Typically it's easier to start with one protein and then add others as you know the first one is fine. However, it can take quite a few weeks of one protein before you know for sure. The IDBkitties website has a page on how to do food transitions.

    My girl Neko also had the IBD vs SCL question, but we could not get a proper diagnosis, because biopsy or endoscopy both require anaesthesia, which her heart could not handle. She was already on a raw mixed protein diet at the time, one of the reasons it seemed more likely the issue was SCL.
     
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