? 4/15 - Xander | AMPS 241 - Question for anyone using calipers with ReliOn syringes

Brianna & Xander

Brianna & Xander

Very Active Member
4/14/25

A question for anyone using specifically ReliOn syringes with calipers:

I got myself a lit magnifying glass and some digital calipers, but as usual, there's an unforeseen reason that it seems this may not work for us. :rolleyes:

  1. Firstly, there's a ring/lip around the outside of the syringe, right below the cap and a bit above where the 0 line would be. It's impossible to get the calipers flush against the side of the syringe while laying it down because of this. I can place the calipers over the front of the syringe, but I have to hold both; they won't sit that way on a surface. This raises the issue of the fact that I can't move the plunger at the same time to get rid of a little excess insulin, etc. I have to set the calipers down, adjust the plunger, line it all back up again and then have it most likely be off anyway because I had to take the calipers away.
  2. In addition to that, even the easiest to slide, well-lubricated plungers are seemingly impossible to move by tiny enough increments. If I try to take out the tiniest bit of insulin, I either have to go back into the vial for more or start a new needle because it flies right past wherever I wanted it to be. I've been working on that for 4 months and they're still impossible to be precise with. Trying to do that while holding the needle and the calipers lined up is just not gonna happen.

Anyone run into these issues and found a way to work around them? As it is this just seems like an extra step that doesn't actually help, so I might as well just go back to the old imprecise way that was at least easier than the new imprecise way. :facepalm: These needles are the only ones that have everything I need (accessible to me, most importantly, but also the half-unit markings, the gauge, the length, etc). Switching needles doesn't feel like an option because they're the first ones he really tolerates.

Have a good Tuesday, everyone. :)
 
Is there really a difference between brands of syringes if the specifications are exactly the same (say 3/10 cc half unit markings 31 gauge 5/16 inch)? I doubt a cat can tell the difference (or cares) between 31 gauge 5/16 inch of brand X and the exact same needle specs of brand Y.
:cat:
 
squeem3 said:
Is there really a difference between brands of syringes if the specifications are exactly the same (say 3/10 cc half unit markings 31 gauge 5/16 inch)? I doubt a cat can tell the difference (or cares) between 31 gauge 5/16 inch of brand X and the exact same needle specs of brand Y.
:cat:
Click to expand...

I don't know if there are any others that are 6mm like these are (seems rare at least here), but in either case these needles are literally $50-$75 cheaper per 100 than the rest that I've gotten. They're also (despite their issues) easier to use than all the others I've tried.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
I used to use the zoom function of a smartphone to magnify (it's wonderful) and another phone with the My Light app as a backlight. Here's a previous post with my set-up :)
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/posts/3017060/
Click to expand...

Those are really great pictures, thank you for that! I can see in your photos though that your syringes didn't have the lip I'm referring to. Here's an example:

Syringe Lip.jpg


Because the lip sticks out from the syringe, the calipers can't lay flat on it unless I hold them over the front. If they were to lay down next to each other, the calipers couldn't be close enough to the syringe to measure with. So I have to hold them both up, which means I have no hand free to do any kind of adjustment with.
 

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Brianna & Xander said:
4/14/25

A question for anyone using specifically ReliOn syringes with calipers:

I got myself a lit magnifying glass and some digital calipers, but as usual, there's an unforeseen reason that it seems this may not work for us. :rolleyes:

  1. Firstly, there's a ring/lip around the outside of the syringe, right below the cap and a bit above where the 0 line would be. It's impossible to get the calipers flush against the side of the syringe while laying it down because of this. I can place the calipers over the front of the syringe, but I have to hold both; they won't sit that way on a surface. This raises the issue of the fact that I can't move the plunger at the same time to get rid of a little excess insulin, etc. I have to set the calipers down, adjust the plunger, line it all back up again and then have it most likely be off anyway because I had to take the calipers away.
  2. In addition to that, even the easiest to slide, well-lubricated plungers are seemingly impossible to move by tiny enough increments. If I try to take out the tiniest bit of insulin, I either have to go back into the vial for more or start a new needle because it flies right past wherever I wanted it to be. I've been working on that for 4 months and they're still impossible to be precise with. Trying to do that while holding the needle and the calipers lined up is just not gonna happen.

Anyone run into these issues and found a way to work around them? As it is this just seems like an extra step that doesn't actually help, so I might as well just go back to the old imprecise way that was at least easier than the new imprecise way. :facepalm: These needles are the only ones that have everything I need (accessible to me, most importantly, but also the half-unit markings, the gauge, the length, etc). Switching needles doesn't feel like an option because they're the first ones he really tolerates.

Have a good Tuesday, everyone. :)
Click to expand...
Hi Brianna, it’s interesting. The question you pose. Funny that I like the Relion 8 mm length but they have been discontinued. And I didn’t like the 6 mm because I thought they were too short, however, if they work for you, that’s perfect because they are still available and very inexpensive.

I do understand what you mean about that lip. I line the top arm of the caliper under the lip get my dose as close as possible, flick out any air bubbles hold the calipers up against the side of the syringe under my undercabinet lights with magnifying glasses (readers) on.

If adjustment to the dose is needed, which usually it is, I add some more then do the process again, holding the syringe upright under the light and hold the calipers against the syringe to double check it.
Again, I think the biggest thing is consistency however, you do it. If you do it the same way every time you will be giving a consistent dose.

So many factors to think about :banghead:
But you’re doing such a great job!
Give your sweet boy some chin scratches:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
6mm is 15/16, really really short needles. BD has 6mm syringes with half unit markings but at least twice the cost of Relion. UlitCare is another. I buy my syringes online and use my HSA funds for them. Only the expensive BD syringes work for crazy Leroy:rolleyes:

There are syringes without the lip thing. BD 0.5 ml and 1ml syringes. I use these at work. There may be other brands but none in 0.3 ml. Not sure why.

71xja4mIznL.jpg



B-D329410_PRI01.JPG
 
Staci & Ivy said:
Hi Brianna, it’s interesting. The question you pose. Funny that I like the Relion 8 mm length but they have been discontinued. And I didn’t like the 6 mm because I thought they were too short, however, if they work for you, that’s perfect because they are still available and very inexpensive.
Click to expand...

I was worried when they only had the 6mm that they would be too short, but they've been perfect for us! If he didn't have little injection spots shaved I might not feel that way, but since I can see it, it's perfect.

Staci & Ivy said:
I do understand what you mean about that lip. I line the top arm of the caliper under the lip get my dose as close as possible, flick out any air bubbles hold the calipers up against the side of the syringe under my undercabinet lights with magnifying glasses (readers) on.

If adjustment to the dose is needed, which usually it is, I add some more then do the process again, holding the syringe upright under the light and hold the calipers against the syringe to double check it.
Again, I think the biggest thing is consistency however, you do it. If you do it the same way every time you will be giving a consistent dose.

So many factors to think about :banghead:
But you’re doing such a great job!
Give your sweet boy some chin scratches:bighug::bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...

It does sound like you're basically doing what I just had to do as well. It's a bummer that there has to be a stupid ring right there. This could've been so much easier. lol

I got them because of that issue with the 0 line being way off (I had one that was literally off by at least a unit, maybe more. It was so bad that my partner and I both actually laughed. I didn't use that one at all, obviously). I always just have to kind of eyeball it like "It's this far above the 0 line, so now I need the plunger to be that same amount above my dose." But with the lip and the way we have to keep going back and forth to the calipers it seems like basically the same thing, but with fancier equipment. Either way, it's not as accurate as if we could simply lay them down and adjust like in the examples. Know what I mean?

Thank you for your help, Staci! I know you've got a ton going on with your sweet girl and I appreciate your taking the time to answer when you've already got your hands full. ❤️

Chin scratches deployed! :cat::D
 
squeem3 said:
6mm is 15/16, really really short needles. BD has 6mm syringes with half unit markings but at least twice the cost of Relion. UlitCare is another. I buy my syringes online and use my HSA funds for them. Only the expensive BD syringes work for crazy Leroy:rolleyes:

There are syringes without the lip thing. BD 0.5 ml and 1ml syringes. I use these at work. There may be other brands but none in 0.3 ml. Not sure why.

71xja4mIznL.jpg



B-D329410_PRI01.JPG
Click to expand...

Yeah, they sure don't make it easy for us, do they? lol I had some BD syringes but they were somewhere around... $80? Crazy. The ReliOn ones (here at least) are $12.

For whatever reason (a local law I guess?) I can't seem to order syringes online and have them delivered here. When I was first trying to find half-unit syringes before I got the ReliOn I was looking online and it seemed like the reviews all also called them inaccurate too, so I just went for the ReliOn. ETA: Another thing about the ReliOn - I don't need a prescription but I do have to show proof of the insulin prescription and my ID to get them. So maybe that's part of why they don't allow ordering online.

I think the BD syringes we do have don't have the lip either. They're also just harder for me to use the plunger, and the longer needle does seem to make a difference for Xander (He really is just so sensitive. My partner can't move when I give injections or he'll hear it and run away. So it's not surprising to me that even something that small makes a big difference to him.)
 
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Tim & Pookey said:
Woah this is pretty slick! I definitely would have incorporated this rather than squinting at 6:30AM…
Click to expand...
Brianna & Xander said:
Yeah, I'm wishing I'd thought of that setup rather than the $30 lit magnifying glass lol. Probably going to end up returning it.
Click to expand...
I can't take credit for it though! Got this idea from another member who used a similar set-up :-)
 
Brianna & Xander said:
Those are really great pictures, thank you for that! I can see in your photos though that your syringes didn't have the lip I'm referring to. Here's an example:

View attachment 73576

Because the lip sticks out from the syringe, the calipers can't lay flat on it unless I hold them over the front. If they were to lay down next to each other, the calipers couldn't be close enough to the syringe to measure with. So I have to hold them both up, which means I have no hand free to do any kind of adjustment with.
Click to expand...
For syringes with lips, you use the upper/smaller hands of the callipers.

upload_2025-4-15_21-35-17.png
 

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Bandit's Mom said:
For syringes with lips, you use the upper/smaller hands of the callipers.

View attachment 73577
Click to expand...

OMG, that's brilliant! So I'd just keep the exact same measurement, and then swap which arm goes where (so use the top of the lower arm for the 0 and the bottom of the upper arm for the plunger)? I'm sure that's incredibly obvious just making sure.

Thanks, Bhooma! I'm gonna try that tonight.
 
Brianna & Xander said:
So I'd just keep the exact same measurement, and then swap which arm goes where (so use the top of the lower arm for the 0 and the bottom of the upper arm for the plunger)? I'm sure that's incredibly obvious just making sure.
Click to expand...
Yes, you would use the same measurement, but you would use the smaller arms at the top to measure rather than the longer/lower arms.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
Yes, you would use the same measurement, but you would use the smaller arms at the top to measure rather than the longer/lower arms.
Click to expand...

I feel like an idiot for not thinking of this. I think I just figured it must be for something else/not work the same way. Thank you so much! I'll update later with how it worked. :)
 
squeem3 said:
Is there really a difference between brands of syringes if the specifications are exactly the same (say 3/10 cc half unit markings 31 gauge 5/16 inch)? I doubt a cat can tell the difference (or cares) between 31 gauge 5/16 inch of brand X and the exact same needle specs of brand Y.
:cat:
Click to expand...
There is a difference. I believe the dosing with calipers video has the measurements.
 
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dosing-with-calipers-updated-w-videos.79851/#post-862835

From the sticky.

All of these syringes are U100, 0.3cc (the gauge of the needle won’t matter):
Monoject 1.24mm = 1u
ReliOn 1.32 mm = 1u
BD Ultrafine II (Canada) 1.5mm = 1u
BD Ultrafine (US) 1.62mm = 1u
Carepoint 1.2mm = 1u
UltiCare VetRX 1.25mm = 1u
Sure Comfort 1.34mm = 1u

It's most important to recognize that different syringe types (e.g. Monoject, BD, Relion) will have a different millimeter measurement for 1u than I used in the video and where you measure from/to with the calipers will likely be different (especially if you are using BD syringes).
 
tiffmaxee said:
There is a difference. I believe the dosing with calipers video has the measurements.
Click to expand...
tiffmaxee said:
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dosing-with-calipers-updated-w-videos.79851/#post-862835

From the sticky.

All of these syringes are U100, 0.3cc (the gauge of the needle won’t matter):
Monoject 1.24mm = 1u
ReliOn 1.32 mm = 1u
BD Ultrafine II (Canada) 1.5mm = 1u
BD Ultrafine (US) 1.62mm = 1u
Carepoint 1.2mm = 1u
UltiCare VetRX 1.25mm = 1u
Sure Comfort 1.34mm = 1u

It's most important to recognize that different syringe types (e.g. Monoject, BD, Relion) will have a different millimeter measurement for 1u than I used in the video and where you measure from/to with the calipers will likely be different (especially if you are using BD syringes).
Click to expand...

I squeem3 may have meant more along the lines of whether or not Xander would notice the difference if I switched to a syringe without a lip to better be able to use calipers with, but I could be wrong. Either way, it's good information, so thanks!
 
I meant if any cat could tell the difference between brands of syringes if the same needle specs was used, such as 31 gauge 5/16 inch. The needle gauge is the only part the cat might notice. Maybe needle length for some weirdo cats. No cat cares if the syringe is 3/10 cc or has half unit markings or a lip that makes the bean go nuts trying to measure with calipers :D
 
Marielle said:
Nice run of greens today! Yay, Xander!

I just received my calipers in the mail today; now I get to figure out how to use them, too.:bookworm:
Click to expand...

This was easily one of the best days we've had since diagnosis! I'm overjoyed.

I just used the calipers the way Bhooma suggested and it did seem to work better! I still kind of had to hold them up but it was a lot easier. Now I just hope that it's not such a different dose that we interrupt this great thing we've got going.

Good luck with yours! Let me know how it goes! :)
 
squeem3 said:
@Brianna & Xander I came across these 3/10cc insulin syringes with half unit markings without the lip: https://www.amazon.com/Elimedical-Veterinary-Syringe-100pcs-03V3108B/dp/B08DP5KH8G It's too bad you can't buy syringes online :(

Sol Vet is another brand but I don't recommend it. The insulin dribbled out of the needle as soon as I inverted the syringe to poke into the tent :eek: It wasn't just one bad syringe. The few I used all had the issue.
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Thank you! I'll keep those in mind if I can ever get around it. And will also avoid Sol Vet - I appreciate the heads up!
 
Hi Brianna. I used the other end of the callipers. I can go get them tomorrow and take a picture, I mean the smaller branches at the opposite end. They are the other way, you measure outside and it sat nicely against the lip, if that makes sense. I might still have a syringe to show you.
 
cecile & bella said:
Hi Brianna. I used the other end of the callipers. I can go get them tomorrow and take a picture, I mean the smaller branches at the opposite end. They are the other way, you measure outside and it sat nicely against the lip, if that makes sense. I might still have a syringe to show you.
Click to expand...

Hi Cecile! I actually tried it this morning and it worked much better! I still can't really lay it down, but I'm not also having to fight to get it to line up the way I was with the other side. Feel like a dummy for not thinking of that myself.

If you did end up still having a syringe and could take a picture I'd absolutely appreciate it regardless, just as further confirmation that I'm doing it right. If not, I appreciate you stopping by anyway. :)
 
Brianna & Xander said:
Hi Cecile! I actually tried it this morning and it worked much better! I still can't really lay it down, but I'm not also having to fight to get it to line up the way I was with the other side. Feel like a dummy for not thinking of that myself.

If you did end up still having a syringe and could take a picture I'd absolutely appreciate it regardless, just as further confirmation that I'm doing it right. If not, I appreciate you stopping by anyway. :)
Click to expand...
Here it is. I also used a printed chart, I am not sure if there are some for Relion syringes ( used BD). I put the syringe on a white piece of paper besides the calipers, "hooking" the lip of the syringe on the top branch of the calipers, and I adjusted the plunger until it matched the lower branch. I did it again if I had to push bubbles out. I hope it helps!
IMG_2642.jpeg
 

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cecile & bella said:
Here it is. I also used a printed chart, I am not sure if there are some for Relion syringes ( used BD). I put the syringe on a white piece of paper besides the calipers, "hooking" the lip of the syringe on the top branch of the calipers, and I adjusted the plunger until it matched the lower branch. I did it again if I had to push bubbles out. I hope it helps!
View attachment 73593
Click to expand...

Thank you so much, that's very helpful! I have a followup question. It may only apply to ReliOn, but you could probably still answer. On my syringes, when the plunger is pushed all the way up, it doesn't actually meet the outer lip. There's an inner ring that comes down below the lip and that seems to be the actual "top." When insulin is drawn it seems to start from that point and not from the outer ring above it. I attached couple of pictures to try to show what I mean. It's a little hard to see, but I added a purple line to indicate what I've been lining the "upper" arm to. Just wanted to make sure that was right.

Syringe Example.jpg
 

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I see. Bella never needed tiny doses of insulin, so I never worried about this. I think (in my opinion, at least) what matters is to be consistent, more than where the 0 is. I always measured the same way, so when I decreased or increased, she got less or more, but always based on the same "0", if that makes sense?
Now if you are down to 0.1 or one drop, it is probably important to pay attention to this. But again, I never had to. There will probably be people who can advise you on that!
 
cecile & bella said:
I see. Bella never needed tiny doses of insulin, so I never worried about this. I think (in my opinion, at least) what matters is to be consistent, more than where the 0 is. I always measured the same way, so when I decreased or increased, she got less or more, but always based on the same "0", if that makes sense?
Now if you are down to 0.1 or one drop, it is probably important to pay attention to this. But again, I never had to. There will probably be people who can advise you on that!
Click to expand...

That makes sense! So it may be that whatever I'm giving isn't "technically" 2.75, but as long as it's consistent it doesn't matter that much (at least for now).
 
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