5/31 - Zen - No Shot This Morning | PMPS 76 | +3 53

Yesterday's thread

I don't understand this cat these days. He seems to decide over and over again that he doesn't want his shot in the mornings, and I find myself having to panic-feed him at anywhere between +10 and +11. He's already got food in his belly, and he seems to just want to use his depot in the mornings for now. Maybe we're still working some extra out of the depot from the recent reduction. I guess we'll see where that takes us today.

I can't tell if this is him coming down the ladder or just telling us that one of us needs to get up and bring his food to him at some point overnight. Anyone have thoughts?

 

Just did an ear prick and he's at 37. I gave him savory selects about 20 minutes ago and that doesn't seem to have helped, so I just gave him 1 tsp of HC.

 

If I remember right, you transitioned him from high carb kibble to low carb canned right?

And what is his feeding schedule in the PM cycle?

 

Bhooma, yes-- we did exactly that. When we took him off of m/d kibble overnight, that's when he stopped spiking into the 400's.

His typical schedule has been off because he hasn't been getting a shot.

Usually, we had him on nothing but DM (2 cans of pate, spaced out between 6:30am and 10:30pm-- one can in the AM cycle, one can in the PM cycle. He'd always have about 1/4 can leftover at night, so we'd leave it out but he would never eat it.) He still was always very close to being unshootable many mornings on that schedule.

Right now, in an effort to normalize his daytime levels due to the lack of shot, we've started giving him tiki cat mousse again, which supposedly has no carbs (or at least close to it), but we're giving him that during the day, and he switches back to the DM right after his PM shot. He's getting half a can of DM in the mornings, 1 packet of mousse at noon, another packet at 6p, and the other half can of DM from 8p-10:30p. We still leave 1/4 can of DM out for him overnight and he still ignores anything in his bowl that isn't kibble.

Ear prick just read 55-- he's on his way back up.

 

My husband and I are considering a 2am feeding. My gut is telling me that the food is the lever that needs to be pulled here, before the insulin is adjusted further. What do you think?

 

Not sure if anyone has shown you the SS of Simba who went off the juice after a switch from HC prescription kibble to low carb:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xk8mpRya4ODwSc9Khmjssjo-tHPSJvw1EDAoJMx0mkU/edit#gid=0
It was a pretty hairy ride for his mom!

I think Zen just might be on his way to becoming a diet controlled diabetic. Time will tell.

I think you can try a feed at PM +9 to see if that prevents those early morning dives. If he is done with insulin though, nothing will help except getting him off it! We want to give him some insulin support unless he decides he doesn't need any!

On the dosing front, I'm going to tag @tiffmaxee for her input. Wondering whether you want to take his dose down to 0.10U so that you can shoot twice a day. Let's see what she says.

 

Thank you, Bhooma. And also thank you, Elise. Your collective guidance has been invaluable these last few weeks. <3

 

WOW, Simba's SS looks so similar to Zen's!

 

Look at your boy go!!!!!!! So close to an OTJ trial. I'm so happy for you both!

 

Thank you, Summer!!! Trying to stay positive through the frustration and panic. Simba's SS got me a little emotional. Maybe this is all just part of the process for being diet-controlled.

 

WOW!!!

 

Zen looks like a kitty who doesn’t want insulin. Beautiful creature!
One of my vets talked about going to one shot a day when coming off. Not the way I did it, but Zen seems to be making it work.
I’m surprised at the steadiness in his BG numbers with different insulin amounts.
Look forward to seeing suggestions!

 

Just scanned the Libre at 53. Fed him some LC (it was brunch time anyway) and will recheck in 15 with an ear prick.

 

77

 

It’s amazing how some lucky cats go OTJ with a little support and a diet change. Fingers and paws crossed that Zen is one. It sure looks like it. Anti jinx.

The depot is in play so we have to see if any insulin will be needed. I’d prefer a small dose every 12 hours as opposed to once a day. I’m glad you have the Libre and dint need to prick his ear so much. I would do an ear test whenever you see a test under 50 though.

 

Emily, can you tell me about the Freestyle Libre? How much it cost? Also, I see the sensor only lasts 14 days so I guess you are constantly having to replace it. How much does a new sensor cost and are you going back to the vet every 14 days to have it replaced. I'm just trying to understand the pros and cons, etc. I have heard that they have a tendency to fall off or get pulled off by the pet. Sure sounds like a wonderful tool to have when dealing with a diabetic pet - or bean. If you are not comfortable discussing the cost I understand Maybe just some basic information. Thanks!

 

@tiffmaxee Thank you so much!!! When you say a small dose, what are your thoughts on .25 vs .1? He's stayed under 80 so far today. I assume we don't want to stay at .5? Absolutely understood on the depot.

Thank you, again!

 

@Summer and Susie , absolutely! I would say it's incredibly helpful for monitoring trends and general numbers, but if you're ever truly concerned/dubious about an individual reading, always do an ear prick. Your vet has to prescribe it, and unfortunately our vet prefers to place it (they put extra medical glue on it and shave where they place it), which requires a short visit every time. However, Publix offers a ScriptCycle discount that you can ask for, and you can get about 50% taken off of the purchase price. We pay about $35 for a sensor every two weeks with the discount, so long as Zen doesn't tear It off with his teeth. We had to put two shirts on him in order to make sure that didn't happen. It's definitely pricey, and I wouldn't say it's worth it unless you want to use it as a tool to help push lower than you usually would.

More than happy to answer ANY questions!

 

I'm planning for .25U in about 15 minutes unless anyone thinks we should do .1 . Let me know!

 

Just shot .25U. Good lord... I think I'm getting some calipers...

 

Well, Zen decided his carbs don't count on holidays, either. Scanned at 42, ear-pricked immediately after at 53. Just gave him a tsp of HC and his bedtime meal of 1/4 can of DM. Hubby's got the night shift, and I'm on the morning shift. Keep us in your thoughts, please.

 

Considering putting him back on DM the full day to try to keep this from happening, and if we reduce, we can re-introduce the Tiki Cat.

 

Come on back up, Zen! Hopefully a drop in numbers this early in the PM cycle means he's done for the evening and there will be a *safe* AMPS in the morning? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I’m so sorry nobody was around at shot time. I wasn’t home. Calipers really help. Up a little please Zen.

 

I was just thinking this...

He may be done with this whole dance before the callipers arrive. Anti-jinx!

 

I think Zen might need to go down to .10 in the morning or if green try a drop dose.

 

To measure a drop dose, push the plunger of the empty syringe in fully, keep it pressed and insert in the pen. Let go of the pressure on the plunger and it will draw a drop. When you insert the needle into Zen, push the plunger and count to ten if he will let you.

 

Thanks, all!!! And no worries, Elise! I don't know why, but I didn't get notifications on these responses, so Zenny got .25 this morning, but we did a night watch to keep him in good shape overnight. I think getting him back fully on the DM helped, as did doing a 4am (PM+9) feeding. I'll send a report in a new thread and tag you all. <3