6/30 Jonesy amps 344-4.5u;214@+4.5; 257@+9.5; pmps 261-4.5u

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by Darcy and Jonesy, Jun 30, 2020.

  1. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Morning,

    @Wendy&Neko Thank you for the link yesterday. I still don't understand :oops:

    I do understand the need for more info on the nadir, but I can't wrap my head around the following. Hypothetical situation: If a cat is up in the 300's for both amps and pmps, but does regularly go down to 90 for nadir, is THAT the desired result? Is THAT THE MAGIC DOSE?

    Again, that's hypothetical only, certainly not my boy. But is that how it works? o_O If the nadir is in the normal range, but the two ends are high, is that safe? Or is the goal to flatten that curve?

    Thank you. I appreciated your patience with me :(

    Darcy and Jonesy

    Monday http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...k-with-4-5u-211-7-pmps-328-4-5u-228-5.231631/
     
  2. carfurby

    carfurby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    I hope Jonesy slides down and surfs today.
     
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  3. Tina Marie and Jan

    Tina Marie and Jan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2019
    Hi Darcy,

    A question I ponder, is one you ask: if nadir is good, say 90 (what you want with SLGS), and AMPS and PMPS are ALWAYS high . . . you do NOT increase if your nadirs are good BUT I also question if it's good for the cat to be high so much of the time. I see several long term diabetic kitties in that situation.
    You are right about trying to flatten the curve, and proper timing of food can make a difference. I also have seen plenty said about the AMPS and PMPS being the last to come down.
    OT: I also wonder about a change of insulin type when a cat never sees good numbers at AMPS and PMPS, but has a decent nadir. I don't know the answer though, since my only experience is with Lantus.
     
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  4. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Thank you, yes, I'm glad I'm not the only one ;) You're right, maybe in the future he may need a different insulin?? Off to go do a test (now that I'm reminded of it! heehee)
     
  5. Si am cat mom

    Si am cat mom Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2019
    Gonna take a stab at this, but I'm sure someone with more experience will be around :)
    My understanding and interpretation of my numbers is this...The AMPS is usually the last to fall in line since animals - humans included-tend to have rising hormone levels (which equals BGs too ) in the early morning hours. To me, my AM/ PMPS are what my cats bg looks like when the insulin is wearing off...so I " care " about those numbers, but that's not what I'm focusing on. I already know he needs insulin, right. That nadir number is the number I am shooting or throwing insulin at so that's the number I focus on...almost like if I could pull that number across my entire SS- is that number my ideal? If yes- cool...if not, we adjust. Eventually, my cats pancreas will heal those beta cells...make enough insulin and stop reacting to normal numbers by overly inflattering BGs with glycogen...and then those other numbers start to look like I did ' pull' my nadir out across that SS line, starting from my nadir ( if that visual makes sense).
    So, yes it's not good for cats to be high for any amount of time, but diabetic cats have made those higher numbers their new normal and have to relearn how to function within normal BG ranges again. Bouncing is just a symptom of that process and I don't know if any one insulin is better for that since ECID ...
    I think the longer a cat was diabetic or prediabetic before starting treatment...the longer strong regulation can take. Sorry, that explanation was so wordy :)
     
  6. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Let me try this another way. We decide how to change the dose based on the nadirs, or how low the dose takes the cat. It's entirely possible for a cat to start really high, dive down low, then back up again at the end of the cycle. Neko's first reduction she earned, starting the AMPS cycle at 430. :eek: Below 50 mid day and back up high by PMPS. I have seen cats that start over 500 and do the same. We just cannot determine how low the dose is taking the cats based on preshots alone and without mid cycle tests. Jonesy's spreadsheet tells me he is either on too high a dose, or too low a dose. I honestly can't say which with the data you have.

    SLGS has safety mechanisms build into it, and that includes the weekly curve to help you try to find what is happening mid cycle. Additional spot checks also help figure it out. Another safety mechanism in SLGS is to hold the dose if you are seeing numbers between 90 and 149 on that dose. Targeting numbers below that is dangerous if you don't know how low he's going.
     
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  7. teresazu

    teresazu Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2020
    That was wonderful! @Si am cat mom! I happened to open this thread, and it's exactly the same thing my cat is going through and I was wondering about. so thank you also to @Darcy and Jonesy for the hypothetical!
     
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  8. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Thank you ladies, all of you, for your information. Now I get it, at least . . . more ;) But yes, it absolutely helps.
    And thank YOU Teresazu for chiming in! I'm glad I'm not the only one out there ;) I feel like I'm "faking it" all the time in the Facebook group as I give lots of "basic" information. But when it comes to my own guy, I feel like I'm a sham! heehee

    Have a great night all!
     

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