7/7 Jason Bourne AMPS 441 +3 407 +6 519 Why is it going UP?

Hello,
Please be kind as I'm new at this and our situation is challenging. We have been feeding and taking care of a feral cat (I think he was dumped) for many years. In April this year, he started losing a ton of weight to the point where he was ill enough he let me put him in the carrier and take him to the vet. He apparently has diabetes. It's been challenging b/c he is mostly friendly but he lives outside. I have him on 2.5U of Lantus every 12 hours and that seems to keep him stabilized so he's not frantically and desperately hungry, but his BG has never really been below 300! I can't tell if my meter is bad (but when I do a control test, it's fine) or if I am overdosing or underdosing him?

TBH I also can't really meter him all the time because he lives outside and won't hold still unless I feed him a little bit of food each time, so I try and check his BG every week or so but I haven't been recording it consistently. (And forget the urine test.) I feel like now I am going to try and do that, but it's challenging. I gave him 2.5U this a.m. before feeding and at +6 his BG was HIGHER. I will do a PMPS soon which will prob be at 400 or so but has anyone any experience/insight into what might be going on? Is he getting too much and his body is dumping more insulin in and I should start tapering him off? He seems so much happier now--less crazy eating, drinking less water, gained back weight, etc. so IDK what is up with the BG levels...

TIA

Karen

 

Hi Karen
Do you think you could set up a spreadsheet and put in all the data you have for the last several weeks. If you are only doing the testing occasionally it shouldn’t be too much data to upload.
If you need to give him a tiny snack as you test, that is fine as the food takes a while to take effect. If that’s the only way to test him, do that.
It’s possible that he is dropping lower and bouncing and that is why you are seeing higher numbers. The only way to find out if that is happening is to test before each dose and again during the cycle to see where the dose is taking him. Is that possible?

Also how often are you feeding him? Are you giving him a couple of snacks during the first half of each cycle?

Here is the link to spreadsheet https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

 

Hi!
Thanks for your quick response! I added the data to the spreadsheet here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Nx-mmbn6q2Uc53KGiHmrceNfc8Ffe401oZB2iEOe1Q4/edit?usp=sharing
I'm realizing it's a mess--and all over the place but it is super helpful (this is data from the AlphaTrak). I probably should have tried to get a curve on set days versus just AMPS/PMPS or midday--which I was kind of cobbling together to get a sense of how things were going. That is why today I focused on getting a full(er) curve. It makes me think I've totally missed the window and I'm overdosing him, but he also wasn't responding to the lower dose when I was giving it to him—acting so crazy hungry and thirsty. BUT, that could have also been that he was getting TOO much food in the early stages? I feel like I waited a couple of weeks to see any changes and then would adjust regardless of the BG levels (e.g. if he was behaving less frantic and looking better).

He gets 1.5 cans of FF in a.m., then neighbors feed him 1.5 cans midday (they were overfeeding him before--like 6 cans in the beginning which I told them was too hard for him to process even though he was ravenous) and then I give him 1.5 cans in evening. I mix it with a little water too. At 2.5U, even though the BG doesn't show it today, he is way more calm and has gained weight back and drinking less. But, maybe I should taper him DOWN to 2U and then test in a week a mostly full curve?

I did get in the 100s a couple of times and was like "great! this is the dose" but then it seemed like he wasn't stable but maybe I wasn't giving it enough time and he was bouncing at those 12 hr intervals (which I understand/see more clearly now having read more).

TIA!
Karen

 

Well done getting the SS up and running in record time.
One thing I would do is to try and get some tests in during the pm cycle if you can as cats often drop lower at night.
You have a real rainbow of colours which could indicate he is dropping low and bouncing.
Getting some tests in will tell us if that is happening. Bounces can last for up to 6 cycles so we really need to see a low number and then the next few cycles to see if that is what is happening. The curve on 7/7 certainly looks like it could be a bounce but without many tests in the days before it, we cant say for sure.

Is his name Jason?
Not sure what time of the day your preshot times are but feeding during the first half of the cycle is better than later in the cycle. Also make sure he is not eating for the two hours before the preshot BG as we don’t want it food influenced.

 

Thank you for the tips! I will try to get a longer cycle of readings and after PM shot (usually he slinks off and it's late night but will make it happen!). Thanks for that tip.
When I do his BG it is always before I give him food so he's been hours without food e.g. I do the AMPS at 8 or 9 a.m. before his first feeding of the day so he's been all night w/o food. Today, I did the readings as I was giving him a little snack so he would hold in one place.

Yes, his name is "Jason Bourne" (after the movies) because a bunch of years ago he snuck into my neighbor's house and they discovered him and then he did some Jason Bourne-like acrobatics to escape them and get out. The name kinda stuck But it really is funny to have to tell the vet that you are there to pick up "Jason Bourne."

Thank you again!

Karen

 

I would try and give him a snack in the first half of the pm cycle as well if you can to keep him safe from dropping low

 

Ok!

 

Hello and welcome. We've had a few people with diabetic ferals or semi-ferals and we realize it's a bit more challenging than most. Thank you for taking care of him.

Are you feeding him anything after his PM shot time food? As Bron said, many cats go lower at night (and bounce during the day), so a little food out to help him a few hours after PMPS might help him from dropping as much. And as Bron said, let's get a little more data at this dose, to tell us where to go next.

One housekeeping request, it's easier for us to access your spreadsheet if you include the link in your signature, rather than you having to post it each day.

 

@Wendy and @Bron
Thank you! I tried to give him some food at 11:30 last night but he didn't come (so maybe he was feeling sluggish and zonked out), but will try again today. Usually I feed him at 8 a.m., then he gets lunch from my neighbor, then dinner at 8. So I will try and space out feedings to be more frequent and give him a post dinner snack. I try and do a more thorough curve in a couple of days (and give his ears time to heal up). I did lower his dose by .25U today only b/c my neighbor had said he was really zonking out after eating and I've been feeling like I've been giving him too much based on behavior (even though his numbers are high). I wondered if I'm in that trap of giving him too much and so his system is overcompensating. :/

Added spreadsheet to sig! Thanks again. I have really found a lot of great info on the forums just by reading what people have been doing

 

I'm glad you are reading other posts - it's a fantastic way to learn, especially if you can find new people. A lot of people have common questions, or even ones you hadn't thought of yet!

Try keeping this same dose for 7 days, unless he goes under 90. Good luck trying to get him at night time. Hopefully he'll associate that with food or a special treat.