8/14 Mishka PMPS 85 +2 83 +3.5 43 +7 104 AMPS 103

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by Frogster, Aug 14, 2020.

  1. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    I reduced again without proper justification. It seems that less is more for us so far.
    She is extremely wiggly at testing these days, which is really good comparing to her previous lethargy, but otherwise not very comfortable at all for both of us, not to mention very time consuming, and her ears are all in bruises. I want to start testing her less, but don't know how to persuade myself and what regime to choose now that she tends to slide lower.

    Previously - https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/8-11-mishka-amps-72-2-110-5-86.233461/
     
  2. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Are you giving her a small treat as you test to keep her occupied?

    With the bruised ears, are you holding the ear for a minute afterwards to stop any blood escaping and thus stop any bruising?

    I would hold the dose at 1.5 units and see how it goes unless she earns a reduction
     
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  3. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    When I hold her ears she is occupied solely with her ears and wiggling them away from me, nothing can distract her from it.
    I used to hold her ears for a while after each test, but now she keeps flapping them (blood flies everywhere if the drop is big) and moving her head. The only way to hold her and her ears still is brutal force, which is not the way at all.
     
  4. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    If you poke the marginal vein, there is more blood flow and bruising, I think. I can see how it must be difficult for you to test her if she is all wriggly, though. Do you use a lancing device? If yes, have you tried adjusting the depth of the lancet to see if that hurts less or draws less blood?

    Mishka is doing very well. Don't be so hard on yourself. FD is overwhelming.
     
  5. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    Less blood is not an option for us now too. With lower BG levels it became harder to get any blood from her at all unless it is the marginal vein. And then, when the drop is here - she flaps her ears and we have to start all over again :banghead:
     
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  6. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    Another interesting method/suggestion I read somewhere on this forum - the bean would poke the cat and collect the drop of blood on the edge of her fingernail and then touch the glucometer strip to the drop of blood on her nail. This would buy her some time and save her the struggle of trying to get the blood directly on the strip - especially if the cat was wriggly.

    I have tried it on occasion too.
     
  7. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    Oh, thank you! I'll give it a try!
     
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  8. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    Happy to help. Things will get better. Hang in there! :)
     
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  9. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    + 8 59. Oh, my. And she had a big meal between those +5 65 and +8 59. What if I missed a big drop?
     
  10. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    One usually feeds a little LC when they go low to keep them surfing without dropping too low. Till you know her nadir and how she behaves on insulin, you would test more frequently as the numbers head to the lower end of the safe range. But I realize that testing is a challenge!

    Is she eating all right for the last few days?
     
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  11. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    She is very picky. But all in all I think she gets a required amount of calories, because when she refuses to eat her usual food for some time I wave the white flag and give her something more appealing (and allergenic :arghh:) or baby food. I'm trying to find something tasty which won't cause her rip her own skin off and be LC. And it seems to be mission: impossible in our latitudes and longitudes
     
  12. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    PMPS 85. OMG a full green-ish day :nailbiting:
    And she ate a full plate of food (which she refused to eat before on her usual place), when I brought it to her right into my own bed :blackeye:
     
  13. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    I feel daring. And a little bit overexcited :woot:
     
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  14. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    Great day! Enjoy the greens. And hold this dose unless she earns a reduction! :D
     
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  15. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    It is good I've done no actual work today. I have aaaall the night. And a lot of coffee. And a cake. And a kitty, who, for all I know, can slide to unknown depths tonight :nailbiting::nailbiting::nailbiting:
     
  16. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    Start a new condo for today and am sure there will be folks here who will hold you hand through an exciting day!
    I'm in Mumbai, so I will be asleep!

    Make sure to get a +2 so you can catch any early dips today.
     
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  17. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    Oh, dear, I've just noticed I've messed up the date :banghead:
     
  18. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    Hmm... I was confused too. The numbers were today's but the date....
    Btw, which part of the world are you in?
     
  19. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    Felt a bit otherworldly or rather othertimely for a moment :blackeye: I'm in Russia, in the Urals to be precise :bighug:
     
  20. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    Oh! Similar timezone to me. Then it's going to be an interesting night for you!
     
  21. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    For sure :D I'd probably better try to persuade her to sleep on my desk tonight. I can't bare her sleeping in her den out of my sight with such anticipations :nailbiting:
     
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  22. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    Although she is not very cooperative now :smuggrin:
     
  23. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    +2 test due soon?
     
  24. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    +2 83
     
  25. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    nice and steady. you may want to feed her a little LC food periodically to keep her from going too low.
     
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  26. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    I will. Though I'm not sure about her :blackeye:
     
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  27. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    She is 43, running around the house and she is not eating
     
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  28. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    43! :confused: She obviously wants a reduction!

    If you cannot get her to eat, apply a little honey on her gums. She cannot be tempted by MC or HC food that she likes?

    Am going to crash any time now, so tagging others to help you through the night!
    @Briere Fur Mom
    @Nan & Amber (GA)
    @tiffmaxee

    P.S..Update your thread title with the latest numbers.
     
  29. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    I don't want this happen anymore. I should probably assume that I know my cat and toss those protocols :arghh:
     
  30. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    Got her to eat some fish baby food
     
  31. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    Yes, she is your cat and you are the one holding the syringe. Her insulin needs seem to be reducing rapidly. Everyone here will agree that it's safety first. You can always go back up the dosing ladder if a reduction fails.
     
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  32. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    The baby food was likely low-carb, but you'll want to get some carbs into her to bring her numbers up.

    Let's see where she is at the next test, though. You want to test every 30mins when they go low like this, to keep a close eye on them.
     
  33. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    Good. Is it LC, MC or HC?
     
  34. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    also, Mischka has definitely earned a reduction down to 1.25U :).
     
  35. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    What are the ingredients in the fish baby food? Any carbs?

    Even though she just ate, get another test 30 minutes after the 43. Let's see which way she is headed.

    I'm waiting for a phone call doctor's appointment at 2:30 (5 minutes from now) and won't be online.
     
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  36. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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  37. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    57 now :blackeye:
     
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  38. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Feed a teaspoon or two again and test in 30 minutes.
     
  39. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    3.5 g of carbs on 100 g of it
     
  40. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I'm supposed to be working but can keep an eye on things.

    Good news on the 57! Going in the right direction, at least...
     
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  41. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    So it’s lc but brought her up. Good to know.
     
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  42. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    That's good.

    I'm off to bed and going to leave you in the very capable hands of @tiffmaxee and @Nan & Amber (GA)

    Do you keep some HC and MC food as well? For times this when some carbs are needed?
     
  43. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    I can take over.
     
  44. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    I have two cans of Pro Plan Convalescence. It is HC, I suppose...
     
  45. Briere Fur Mom

    Briere Fur Mom Well-Known Member

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    so sorry just saw the action. gotta learn to log off when I'm AFK:rolleyes:

    Great catch Frogster! You're doing really good! You have some really great coaches helping out here. Good looking 57!
     
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  46. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    Judging by today's numbers she'll be near the edge for the whole night... Unless she bounces of course...
     
  47. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Not necessarily but could be a few hours. You will need to make sure she’s going up for two hours without food before you stop testing. Right now she still needs food support for sure.
     
  48. Briere Fur Mom

    Briere Fur Mom Well-Known Member

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    It has corn starch way down on the ingredient deck(8)but the website is saying 1.2% carbs


    ETA: Actually not a terrible ingredient deck for a purina product
     
  49. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    It says various sugars in the list :bookworm:
     
  50. Briere Fur Mom

    Briere Fur Mom Well-Known Member

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    lemme re -check. You're prolly right...I get excited and overlook things:p
     
  51. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    I summed up their numbers.. Yep, only 1.2% are missing :banghead:
     
  52. Briere Fur Mom

    Briere Fur Mom Well-Known Member

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    Copied pasted from website


    Composition
    Pork kidney, liver, lung and plasma, turkey, salmon, sunflower oil, minerals, corn starch, fish oil, various sugars
    Nutrient Analysis
    FELINE AND CANINE CN CONVALESCENCE

    Key nutrient values* Wet
    Moisture 76%
    Protein 11.2%
    - Arginine 0.57%
    - Taurine 1700 mg/kg
    Fat 7.8%
    - Omega-6 fatty acids 2.5%
    - Omega 3 fatty acids 0.30%
    Carbohydrate 1.2%
    fibre 0.30%
    Zinc 46 mg/kg
    Vitamin A 25 231 IU/kg
    Vitamin E 171 mg/kg
    Metabolisable energy (ME)1 1.1 kcal/g


    I'm assuming this is as fed. I would think because the sugars are so far down, it's not affecting the carb content as expected. Just be careful relying on this as HC. Just my thoughts
     
  53. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    You can always add a couple drops of honey to a food to bump up the carbs a bit (as long as she'll still eat it that way, of course, but most cats don't seem to mind much).
     
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  54. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    75. Can be a beginning of a bounce?
     
  55. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    She stopped running ecstatically straight after the baby food and went to sleep
     
  56. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Mishka hasn't been very bouncy lately, but maybe she will since she went lower than usual. But otherwise, as @tiffmaxee said, you may have to keep an eye on her a while.

    We are at around +4.5 or +5 now, right?
     
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  57. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    I can’t tell. Please keep the ss updated. Makes it easier.
     
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  58. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    Sorry. I'm not thinking straight :banghead:
     
  59. Briere Fur Mom

    Briere Fur Mom Well-Known Member

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    :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  60. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    When was the 75?
     
  61. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    It is not easy for me to update the ss right now, 'cause if I put all my 'world' numbers in one cell they don't transform into 'American' ones themselves, I need to figure them out first, and I'm a mess
     
  62. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    75 was at +4.5
     
  63. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    So forget the ss and keep the subject updated. Okay?
     
  64. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    Done :blackeye:
     
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  65. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    I did that sometimes too!
     
  66. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Did you feed with that last test? You can hold off with food and test in an hour.
     
  67. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    And I thought I'd work tonight. Sweet summer child... I'm all shaking :banghead:
    She refuses to eat. Nothing after the baby food.
     
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  68. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    So test in 30 minutes and see whether you need to push food.
     
  69. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    30 minutes from now? Like an hour after 75?
     
  70. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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  71. Frogster

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  72. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I'm liking that 86.
    Is Mishka at all interested in food? You don't need to prop up the 86 but the not eating is a bit concerning.
     
  73. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Is this common for her?
     
  74. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    I thought she seemed a bit nauseated before starting to run around. She often is nowadays due to hairballs (she is itchy due to allergies).
     
  75. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    She'd been on steroids for several years because of those. Now their affects are definitely wearing off. Along with insulin needs probably?
     
  76. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    If Mishka's numbers are staying up of their own accord, get a couple of hours sleep.
     
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  77. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    +7 104. She will be in yellows by the AMPS I suppose.
     
  78. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Get some sleep. You must be exhausted.
     
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  79. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    Possibly :blackeye: But I've just started working. Well, sort of :blackeye:
     
  80. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    What if I reduce the dose by 0.25 every time the PS is lower than 90? It seemed to work a couple of times, and I definitely had to do this tonight.
     
  81. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    Sort of switch to SLGS?
     
  82. Frogster

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    She probably already was in light greens today (or very close to them) today around +7
     
  83. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    You could but I think TR is helping. It’s more work for you though. I have definitely noticed that more cats go into remission on TR. Another option if this is too stressful is to follow TR but reduce at a slightly higher bg than 50. It’s up to you.
     
  84. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    There are too many if only's in our situation :blackeye::blackeye::blackeye:
     
  85. Frogster

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    Thank you all! You are angels!
     
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  86. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    Turns out she is not :eek: AMPS 103. She is still not interested in food.
    I want to reduce by more than .25. Maybe give her 1 U... Or less?..
    What are the risks if any?
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
  87. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Can you syringe feed her if necessary? Is it time to shoot? It’s more f a risk if she won’t eat. Try and coax her with something yummy.
     
  88. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    It is time to shoot.
    Theoretically I can syringe feed her, but it will be an enormous stress for her.
     
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  89. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Did she eat?
     
  90. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    A little bit of her usual food and some sour cream
     
  91. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    If you don’t think she will eat and you are worried shoot the reduced dose. Sometimes you need to go with your gut. I would not want her dropping and refusing to eat. You may need to see your vet if her appetite doesn’t improve.
     
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  92. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    I'm going for 1U. It feels right. Well, more right than 1.25U anyway :blackeye:
     
  93. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    There are no guarantees she won’t drop because the 1.5 depot is in play so try and tempt her with food once she onsets.
     
  94. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    I will
     
  95. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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  96. Frogster

    Frogster Member

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    :bighug: Thank you!
     

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