9/21 Indie AMPS 135, +2 104, +4 59.....guess this earns her another reduction?

Her numbers have been all over the place and last night gave her the full 3 units (per Vets recommendation) with a PMPS of 113 but was up literally every single hour testing! She got as low as 68 and then I gave her HC food.

I need help finding a dose.

Today her AMPS was 147 and I knew I had to be gone all day so only gave her 0.5 units. Vet recommended 2 but I didn't hear from vet till I left home. So I know vet would likely say 2 units I should give right now. Thoughts?

I definitely need to do another curve just not sure when next time is that I can other than next week sometime.

Please help! Thanks so much in advance!

*Ugh I said 147 is her PMPS right now, meant 145! Not that different, but still.

 

That 68 on an AT is a reduction of .25 so the new dose will be 2.75 when you shoot. Even with the .5 she is still lower than you are used to seeng and she hasn't bounced. I think 3 was too much but with s little info aren't sure what I'd give tonight. Do you have lots of strips and high carb rod if needed? Can you stay up or are you too tired?

@Marje and Gracie @Chris & China what do you think?

 

Have you fed her yet? If not, retest 20-30 minutes after the normal PMPS time

Here's your post from last night

 

Am too tired. I can definitely get up once or twice to gather more data (which from what I keep hearing) is very much needed but don't want to be up all night.

Yes have at least 30 test strips and always have HC food as my other kitty is CKD and only eats HC food right now.

 

I think Marje and Gill recommended 2.5 for tonight in your previous condo. If it makes you more comfortable, you can shoot 2.25 tonight. There shouldn't be too much depot in play after your reduced shot this morning. I would get a +2 tonight, and if you're up any later, a "before bed" test. That will tell you if you need to set an alarm. You can post your results if you are unsure if you'll need more tests.

For future reference, you might want to get another package or two of strips. If Indie decides to really drop, you'll go through those strips in a hurry. It's always best to have at least one full one besides the one you are using, and more if possible. I know AT strips are expensive - that's why most of us use human meters - but you'll be glad you have them the next time Indie throws a PJ party!

 

The other issue is I can't get her off this schedule. I work and am gone exactly 12 hours every day. So I shoot at 7:30am and run out the door and get home at 7:15pm. Sometimes barely in time for her PM shot 12 hours later at 7:30pm. Unless I work from home (which I usually only do 2x/month) the only time I can get a test after her AM shot isn't until the weekend. I can certainly test more after her PM shot.

Yes, she just ate some of her food. Its now been 30 mins since I last tested and her BG reading is: 148 now (up from 145)

 

Okay will do the 2.5units. Thanks! I did see the other posts and started to respond and just started new thread to make sure people saw it, haha. Okay thank you agin. Will likely post results later if I get nervous.

 

There aren't as many people around on Saturday nights, but I'm sure someone will respond. I'll be in and out as I'm having company over, but I'll make it a point to check for you. Chris and Elise are usually around, too. We're here if you need us!

You can always change the subject line of your existing post if you need to get new results or questions out there. Go to Thread tools at the top right of your first post of the day and click on "edit title". Then you can add your question or your test results. Changing the subject line will not bump up your thread, so you'll need to do a new reply with your question in it to bump you to the top of the page.

 

Hi, I am not qualified to advise on dosing, but I noticed on your spreadsheet that Indie has diarrhea and you think it could be the food. I've had the same issues. I was using Flortiflora but it wasn't really helping. A member here recommended a probiotic called Florastor. I started it yesterday and already Keno's poops are looking much better.

You can get it at CVS or Walgreen's. I ordered mine on Amazon.

Jeanette

 

Good call! Buying more test strips online next! Saw someone post somewhere that they were running cheaper on Pet Medical Outlet site?? Checking it out now.

Is is silly or really hopeful that I thought I would stick with the pet meter meter for now as I was hopeful she would go into remission in a few months! I ordered it right of the bat on vets recommendation, then got educated but said ehh, I will stick with it for now since I already bought it. But mark my words, if she isn't in remission in next month or two I am switching to human meter as I am officially going broke between the two cats! Hahaha But all worth it What I wouldn't do for these furbabies

 

Thank you!! You don't know how much that means!

Ahhh, yes I was wondering how to change the title. Okay, now I know.

 

Everyone seems to be saying the Fortiflora isn't good. So will definitely return. Am going to order a different one now. Many said the Renew Life (? I have it saved in a screenshot) worked well. Also saw Proviable someone suggested as did my vet. Will add Florastor to list to check out. Thank you!!!!

 

It really depends on the cat. I had a kitty with small cell GI lymphoma (not diabetic) and the FortiFlora worked great for her. So it might help Indie as well. I always keep a box on-hand because in a pinch I use it as an appetite stimulant (most cats go crazy for it).

I am using Proviable for our kitty who was just diagnosed with IBD. Her diarrhea has cleared up but she is also on antibiotics so not sure if the probiotics are the reason for no diarrhea.

Take care,
Jeanette

 

Yeah Fortiflora may or may not help with the diarrhea, but if China's not really happy with the menu, a little sprinkle usually changes her mind!!

It can be amazing stuff for "spicing up" a dull dinner

 

Yep Dr. Pierson recommends it if you're having difficulty transitioning from dry to wet.

 

My Cinco and my Sasha loved the Forti Flora. It always made them eat. Harvey doesn't like it. But I haven't bought a new box in a year or so, so my stash is the old formula.

Are you still up? Indie looks pretty flat tonight, which can be very good thing, but it could mean she has plans for tomorrow. Be sure to leave some food out for her when you leave in the morning. Can you sister stop by again? If so, I'd recommend she come by around 10:00 am if possible.

 

Awe thanks for checking in!! ❤ ❤ I felt like a failure last night. It was my one chance to get tests in and slept through my alarm to do tests at +4. Today I shot 2.5 units and am staying to be sure and check at +2. Will leave food out.... even some HC food as thats what her sister eats, sometimes I put it on the counter because Indie is overweight and can't get on counter but her sister, Gabby can so she then can access her food... was my way of ensuring Indie ate her own food, anyways... am leaving both foods out on floor. Then will be home at +6 to test again and will pray she is okay in between!!

I am going to try and work from home one day this week so I can get a curve in as this is killing me.

Am curious what a spreadsheet looks like when a kitty goes into remission. I am curious, because she keeps needing a lower dose does it mean in the next month or so she will go into remission?? Haha wishful thinking!! What does the trend look like when a cat goes into remission?

 

George was diagnosed end of October 2015, and went into remission April 2016, he got up to 3u in jan2016 and then started heading down the dosing scale, take a look at his ss. He sort of slowed down when he got to 0.75 u and then he started earning reductions after spending a week in normal numbers. He did become very flat and well regulated, this was followed by him earning reductions at regular intervals.

And by comparison take a look at ivanas SS, she went OTJ just before George and you will see that her approach was quite different, she was bouncier, numbers going up and down, basically she bounced her way OTJ, both are still at the falls.(both did TR)

My point is ECID, you just need to let the numbers guide you.

 

The fact that Indie earned a reduction just means that the dose she was on was too much. By taking her up so quickly without more data, you may well have missed the purrfect dose. I know that's what your vets told you to do. Most vets don't understand Lantus very well and don't advocate testing. (If I had a nickel for every time I've been told I test too much.... But I got one kitty OTJ in less than three months, and before Harvey got sick last month, he was down to 0.1 units of insulin bid and getting "normal" numbers! This method does work!) Because Lantus is a depot insulin, you have to give the body time to adjust to each dose before you see what it's actually doing. With SLGS, because you test less, you hold the dose longer. With TR, testing more, you can adjust the dose more quickly. Both are safe and effective, if done correctly. Contrary to what many vets think, most cats don't mind being tested. Many even look forward to their tests, as it means they get a treat!

I am glad you are going to make time for more tests. Soon you will be more familiar with what the insulin does to Indie, and you will know when it's best to grab those random tests, but for now you're still filling in the puzzle pieces. You can only do what you can do, so don't get discouraged. We'll help you keep Indie safe.

 

Yesterday I came home and tested at +6 and her BG reading was 89! Her nadir has been occurring at +4 so am worried she is going low during the day. So I set my alarm and tested her during the night but she was flat. Am worried today will be a drop. I have my sister checking in on her today, making sure she eats and isn't showing signs of being hypo (unfortunately, she can't test her BG at this time due to Indie being aggressive likely due to her being uncomfortable from the diabetes). So far she said Indie is acting fine and eating.

Do you all think 2.5 still is a safe dose?

Also when do you think would be a good day to do a curve? I can only do one this week on any one day Tues - Fri (I will have to work from home but can only do it once in a while). Which day do you feel would be best? Is tomorrow too soon for a curve? Let me know your thoughts.

 

I think tomorrow would be a good day for a curve, it will be cycle 6 on the dose, so the depot should be full and (provided she doesn't decide to bounce tonight) you will get a good idea of what the dose is doing. We usually consider that it can take about 6 cycles for the depot to settle after we have made a dose change/ skipped a shot etc.

On SLGS usually you would hold the dose for a week and then on day 7 run a curve before deciding whether you hold dose, reduce or increase, but if you can run a curve tomorrow it may give you more confidence with this dose(especially because the way you got here was a bit unconventional), you can always run another curve at the weekend when you may have some more spare time.

Hope that makes sense.

I would leave some food out for your kitties as you usually do the HC is OK, just have an eye on that 89 yesterday which although safe in itself leaves me with some concerns because you mention in your condo that she was probably nibbling at her sisters HC (is that wet or dry, seem to think it was dry)

Tomorrow when you are home you could see how Indie does if she doesn't nibble on her sisters HC food.
It's a shame that Indie won't let your sis test her.

 

That 89 last night earned him a reduction on SLGS, so I think you should reduce the dose to 2.25 tonight (guessing you already shot this morning if you haven't already shot then reduce him this morning). I'll see if some others can look in to see what they think.

from SLGS sticky
Hold the dose for at least a week:

• Unless your cat won’t eat or you suspect hypoglycemia
• Unless your kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L). If kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L) decrease the dose by 0.25 unit immediately.

 

Yes, I shot this morning 2.5 units as her BG reading was 157 (just a tad higher than recently).

I feel like we were on such a nice path and her numbers were trending so well all until I raised her to 3 units!

 

Thank you! Yes that makes sense. Okay, then I'll do a curve tomorrow (or Wed). I just remembered I'm running low on test strips. I ordered some through both Pet Medical Outlet then discovered I wouldn't get until 3-5 days and then ordered an emergency stash through Amazon, they come tomorrow some time before 8pm. Once my sister is back at my place she is going to tell me how many I have left so I know if I can get through tomorrow AM for a curve before Amazon gets to my place. Either way, will do a curve tomorrow or Wed.

I know! If my sister could take a BG test here or there it would be the biggest help! Unfortunately, my sister just reported that in the last couple hours Indie bit her and made her bleed! Just from being petted. Luckily she has cats of her own and completely realizes it's because Indie obviously isn't comfortable. My poor baby. My grandmother actually lives with me (she's 91 and needs 24hr watch due to being a fall risk) and my sister is her full-time caregiver during the day while I'm at work, so that's why I am blessed to have someone at the home during the day most days (minus when they're at Bingo or out and about ) to check on Indie's (and Gabby's) well being.

Ahhh, yes I was worried that her nibbling on her sister's food might either throw her numbers off or just not give me an accurate picture. Her sister, Gabby's food is wet actually, is Royal Canin Renal Support D canned food, last I checked it was 22% carbs - I believe that is considered HC.

 

Nibbling on her sisters food may throw her numbers, but some cats will look for food when their numbers drop. George would come and look for me when his numbers were dropping, he could get quite insistent that I test him (feed him) when he was near 50 (on a human meter)
Getting to the HC food may be whats keeping her safe, so don't worry about it for the moment, it's good that it is wet as it won't stay in her system for too long.
When I was worried about George dopping I would leave HC food out for him if I was going to be out and couldn't monitor.
Wednesday would be fine.
Did you see my comment about taking her down to 2.25?

 

You just answered one of my biggest questions! I kept wondering if she would know to instinctively eat when her BG #'s start to go low. As a human, I know I have hypoglycemia and know when my numbers are low and I need to eat immediately. I was hoping that would be the case for her, but didn't know if she would just sleep through it! Ha.

She definitely is a cat and sleeps at least 20 hours a day. The other 4 she meows and wants to be petted So I always wonder if she'll be sleeping when her numbers drop and won't do anything to prevent it. When I test her BG during the night she is laying next to me sleeping and will flinch when I push the button on the lancet device but otherwise sleeps right through!

As for the decrease, I know it says to do it, but should I still do that even before performing the curve? I guess so.....I'm thinking out loud....because if I do a curve tomorrow it will be based on the 2.5 dose (even though I'll only shoot 2.25 tomorrow AM - per the SLGS method) the 2.5 is what's still in her system. Then in 7 days I'll run another curve to see what the 2.25 units is doing. Correct?

*By the way, your kitty is too cute! Love the pic. And I see you're in Spain! How cool that there are so many people from so many different countries on one board conversing and helping each other. Very cool.

 

Not all kitties do, but George did.

Yes, that's correct, the depot from the 2.5u will probably still be in play, if you are comfortable with leaving it for a little longer you could do. Leaving it till thursday morning would give her 6 cycles on the 2.25u, unless she earns another reduction of course.

George says thank you very much, Indie looks like a slimmer version of George, I have a soft spot for tuxedo cats, shes very cute too give her a skritch from me.
Yes we are, moved here from the UK about 5 years ago, having FDMB was a godsend when george was diagnosed with FD, our vet painted a very black picture, I drove home in tears when he was diagnosed, but now he is OTJ.
Our members are far flung, all round the world, we're a very international forum LOL.

 

Well, according the SLGS today earned her another reduction as having fallen below 90 at +4 she had a reading of 59.

 

That's correct, Indie does earn another reduction for that drop to 59 (on either slgs or TR, as you are using the Alphatrak). Considerate of her to drop when you are doing the curve.
Congratulations.
Have you given her a little HC now , with the alphatrak we would like to see her numbers above 68. 59 is getting quite low.
You should give her a couple of teaspoons of HC gravy and check again in 20 min.

 

Here is the routine you follow when you see a drop below 50 on a human meter (68 on the alphatrak)
I had it printed out and kept it with my hypo kit, just in case power or internet went out.

Taken from the sticky shooting and handling low numbers
If your cat is testing in low numbers and you are not getting a quick response to your post, there are several things you need to do. (Low numbers are under 50mg/dL or 2.8 mmol/L.)

• Depending on how carbohydrate sensitive your cat is, feed approximately a teaspoonor less of gravy from high carb food or high carb food only. (If you have a cat with GI issues, using a couple of drops of syrup plus low carb food is an alternative.)
• Test again in 15 – 20 min. Depending on the numbers, give more HC food.
• Repeat the above steps every 15 – 20 min. until your cat tests in the 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) or above range for 2 consecutive tests. Continue to feed in small amounts to keep numbers in a safe range.
• Test in 30 - 40 min. and repeat the test and feed process until there are 2 consecutive tests where numbers are stable or rising.
• Test in an hour and follow the same steps.

DO NOT become complacent. If number have risen after one or two tests, it’s important to continue testing. Numbers may bobble up and down as the HC food and/or Karo wear off. DO NOT get one test where your cat has risen from low numbers into the 50s and go to sleep or leave the house. You are putting your cat in a risky situation. When in doubt, leave HC food out.

In the case of an accidental overdose or should there be symptoms of hypoglycemia, even if you have caught this in the early stages, you may need to monitor for literally 16 or more hours. Lantus and Levemir are long acting types of insulin. This means if your cat is over dose, you will need to stay alert for hours in order to closely monitor and to keep your cat safe.

Please post your numbers. Those people who are helping you will not abandon you. In fact, they are staying up with you. The experienced people will even work in shifts to make sure your cat is safe and you have the support you need. Remember to refresh your browser to see new posts and keep posting so we know all is well.

~ written by Sienne and Gabby

 

Haha, I know am so lucky I was here.

Yes, I gave her some HC food immediately (she ate 1.5oz of it). It's been 30 mins going to test again.....

Her BG reading was 100. Now am thinking there was something wonky about that 59 reading! Not sure what though. Doesn't that seem odd to go up to 100 so fast??

 

Thank you, will print this as well for my Hypo file.

 

Not really, depends on how carb sensitive the cat is and where in the cycle you are, also, her body may be reacting to the low number and we have a bounce starting.

Remember the carbs can wear off so don't feed for now as she is in safe numbers but check her again in 30 to 45 minutes to see if she is holding.

 

Okay, will check again in 30.

Thank you so much for responding and assisting me through this! I don't know what I would do otherwise.

I would never say anything bad about my vet. I love her dearly, she healed my other kitty of her hyperthyroidism and is assisting me with her chronic kidney disease and is amazing. But am learning that utilizing this board may be the best method for treating this specific disease.

So thank you again!

 

Dre will go up quickly most of the time with a higher carb... unless of course he doesn't.... he typically seeks food when he is dropping too and he eats very fast, much different than his normal eating behavior.
Yep he is a cat!
Congrats!!

 

Your vet may be a jewel, but think about it....can you imagine how much time it would take for them to keep up to date on every new treatment in every different disease for every different type of animal they see? They'd never have any time to see any real patients!!

That's why this message board is such a great place if you have a sugarcat....the people here do nothing but deal with feline diabetes and the complications that tend to come with it, so they tend to stay much more up to date

I truly hope you'll start posting daily (or at least more often) so we can help you!!

Next time you post, you should start a new thread though....this one is getting kind of old...just put the link to this one into your new one and that way people can quickly go back and read what's been going on with Indie

Congratulations on the reduction!! WOO HOO!!!

 

Thank you for the encouragement! Am posting a new thread now

 

That is true about the vet comment. They can't possibly respond to every concern I have....Cause I have a lot! Haha This is a very responsive board. Will forever be grateful for it.

Do you think there is any chance she is slowly moving to being OTJ??? I am so very hopeful.

Also, you mentioned the ability to refer to another thread. How can I include a link to a previous thread? I feel like I should be able to figure it out! But apparently not :/