Advice re Lila bgs again please

Discussion in 'Caninsulin / Vetsulin and N / NPH' started by Ann & Liz, Dec 7, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Ann & Liz

    Ann & Liz Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2016
    We have swapped to u100 syringes to ensure accuracy and for the past few days Lila has been on a definite 1.40 of Caninsulin. We (as usual) saw some good results but today her am pre shot is extremely high. Could this be bouncing from lower numbers? We are doing a curve today, so will update SS as we go through the 12 hours and we have an appointment with a new vet tomorrow. Any suggestions gratefully received.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016
  2. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    It is possible that Lila may be bouncing. She has shown some quite late nadirs on her data. Usually with Caninsulin the nadir (lowest number) will be around +3-+5, but Lila has shown some much later in the cycle. Since every kitty is different, this may mean that Lila has a late nadir with Caninsulin. Hopefully today's curve will show how the insulin dose is working for her, although if she did go much lower last night and is in a bounce, the numbers may stay higher for a day or so. The problem with bounces is that the numbers can stay higher for a few days, which does not always indicate a need for more insulin. Hopefully some of the regular Caninsulin users will be on shortly and give some more insight for you and Lila.
     
  3. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Today's morning cycle is very high and flat - could be either bouncing or a fur shot.

    Maybe try testing later in the PM cycle to see whether Lila is going lower later? (A lot of cats run lower at night.) Looking at some of Lila's recent data her BG can really skyrocket from late nadir to next preshot on some of the AM cycles.

    With Caninsulin it's tricky to know whether big differences between preshot and nadir BGs are due to the way the insulin itself is working in the cat or whether the wide range may be partly due to the dose wearing off and partly due to a short bounce triggered by a significant and potentially fairly fast drop between preshot and nadir. The only thing I can suggest is maybe working out when Lila is most likely to start seeing numbers drop faster, work out how long it takes to go from higher numbers to nadir and maybe giving her a small snack part way through the 'drop period' to slow the drop. (@Cathie and Shaak Ti did wonders for her kitty when using this method and using Novolin). I've not used this technique myself (I gave Saoirse food every 3 hours when she was on Caninsulin otherwise she'd throw up when her tum emptied). It's a shot in the dark but it might smooth Lila's numbers out a bit and perhaps reduce any 'bouncy' element of the rise in BG at the end of the cycle. Other members may have different suggestions.

    If things don't progress much soon it might be worth asking your vet about a switch to a different insulin.


    Mogs
    .
     
  4. Ann & Liz

    Ann & Liz Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Thank you both for your replies. Certainly today's curve does not seem to be a typical day for bgs! Lila gets a snack at around +4 & +6 but maybe we need to offer an earlier one, we used to but found she didn't always eat at that time. Another thought- Lila's food intake fluctuates between 225g and 250g and recently had she went up to 275g for one day. As we feed low carb is it likely these fluctuations in quantity play a part in the problem. ? Lila also vomited at +9 today which is very unusual for her. We are taking a urine sample and requesting full range of bloods tomorrow at the new vets to hopefully rule out any underlying problems and to discuss where we are going with things.
     
  5. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    I think having a full blood work done is a good idea. Lila has been running in pretty consistently high numbers lately, so it would be good to rule out any possible infections. Your insulin is less than a month old so that should not be a problem. I am not familiar with the Apple Paws and Lily's kitchen foods, so I don;t know if that can have any bearing on the numbers. I don't know if you have seen this link, but it is a listing of UK kitty food put together by one of our UK members:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J5JpMe6TDXrHq_aTl9hUtHy6Gs9oRBqlz4nPGKxtySA/pubhtml


    ETA If you are not already doing ketone testing at home I would suggest that you get some ketostix or ketodiastix or an equivalent available for you and check on a regular basis. especially with the higher numbers Lila has been running.
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  6. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I second Mary Ann's suggestions about getting to the vet and especially about getting a ketone test in ASAP.

    BTW I use Bayer Multistix 10SG urinalysis strips (usually get them off ebay or Amazon but any pharmacy should have some brand of strips with a ketone panel).


    Mogs
     
  7. Ann & Liz

    Ann & Liz Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Yes we have ketostix and tested last Friday and was negative. Will test again tomorrow morning when collecting sample for vet. Hoping tonight's readings improve. Also need to bear in mind the issue of ckd. Glad we have vet appt tomorrow.
     
  8. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    With the higher numbers today and the vomiting the sooner you can test for ketones the better, just to be on the safe side. (Tip: Try putting some cling film over the litter in the box to snag a urine sample; you don't need much to do the test.)

    Does Lila vomit much with the CKD?


    Mogs
    .
     
  9. Ann & Liz

    Ann & Liz Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Yes did do the cling film trick initially but she has got wise to it and chooses a different place if cling film in place, bless her! Will try to get a test later if possible. No she doesn't vomit very often at all, she was keen to go outside and eat grass then came back in and vomited bile. Ate her tea well afterwards though.
     
  10. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Glad to hear Lila's eaten OK tonight. :bighug:
     
  11. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    Shaak was really high when she was first diagnosed, 614. I immediately came home from Vet and found this website. I learned as much as I could as fast as I could, made some major mistakes, biggest one being I gave her insulin and switched her to all wet diet within a couple of days, I gave her dry the night before and wet the next day. She dropped to 63, then 49 and I had to feed her gravy from FF and then a teaspoon of low carb and thus that became something she did a few times, I learned though, never abruptly change from dry to wet while on insulin. Make the food change slowly. However once she was switched over I began to try and get her as low as I could without getting her too low, then I noticed that she dropped fast, by +3 most days and then stayed low for a couple of hours before going back up, so I started feeding her smaller meals more frequently and it kept her numbers down almost all the time with smaller and smaller doses of insulin. Finally we did a 14 day trial with no insulin and she stayed under 100 so she was declared officially OTJ. It did take a whole lot of endurance for both Shaak and myself. You can probably tell by her SpreadSheet I tested her frequently. It was so hard in the beginning. My son actually held me in his arms one night I was crying so hard at how often I was having to try and take blood. Eventually she would come running when she saw me with her rice sock because she knew after I took blood she got a snack.

    All was great in our world until just recently Fancy Feast has done something to their food they are not admitting to. Her BG went over 100 and she stopped eating FF altogether. I searched everywhere for a food on the approved list I could afford, I finally found 9Lives with real chicken. That food brings her in under 100, not as good as the FF, FF put her in the 50's, 9Lives has her in the 70's and 80's, so numbers are good, but she is still having diarrhea, tonight there was some form to it, but still mush. I switched her from one probiotic to another and I am hoping this does the trick. I do know even though still mush she only pooped once today, after days of about 8 poops a day. So I am prayfully optimistic. Now you did not ask for all of this info and probably don't want or need all of it, I just figured it was good to let you know you can never let your guard down with our sugar babies. I know I had pretty much let my guard down. I kind of feel like I am back to square one. I am however a major proponent of small mini meals throughout every 24 hours, Shaak eats eight times a day. Thank goodness for a timed feeder!! I don't know if any of this helps you or Lila but I hope at least some of it does.
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  12. Ann & Liz

    Ann & Liz Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Thanks Cathie, all info gratefully received. Yes we have found that there is significant variation in the foods despite the analysis sometimes looking identical. Our dilemma at present is the exact quantity that Lila should eat over a 24 hour period sometimes she eats 2 trays (100g) and other days 2.25 trays or even 2.5 trays (max). Lila does have between 7 & 8 small meals over a 24 hour period. Would you say that this variation in quantity could cause major changes in bgs on a day to day basis? Fortunately Lila is generally very good about having her blood taken and we do test her quite a bit too, she has a little routine of rubbing her face around the testing kit box which seems to settle her for the test. Lila is 16y and the vet at diagnosis did say that she may have an underlying cause for the diabetes and we know she has ckd. Lila sems to be generally very well and if we could master these bgs it would be great. Hopefully vet appt today we be productive, regarding ruling out any underlying problems at least. Have a sample of urine to take in and our home test this am for ketones is negative thankfully. Hope Shaak continues to improve.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
  13. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    I know in Shaak's case once I was feeding her 8 equal small portion low carb meals every 24 hours her numbers stayed low. Shàak never left any food in her dish for the last nine months. I would imagine if she had eaten different amounts it would have effected her BG's though. I think that is what you are asking.
     
    Ann & Liz likes this.
  14. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    When unregulated cats tend to need more food than when regulated. If she seems hungry then feed her more. Just don't feed two hours before her preshot test so the numbers to base the injection on aren't food influenced.
     
    Ann & Liz likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page