Advice! What am I doing wrong?

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Maddie & Kai

Maddie & Kai

Active Member
Hello fellow sugar kitty parents!

I don't really post much here, I'm more of a reader. However, I am seeking some advice and council about our current situation. Our goal is regulation not remission.

I'll start from the beginning and I apologies in advance, I tend to over explain things.

Kai was diagnosed in late 2020 with diabetes. Unfortunately, our window of opportunity for remission has come and gone, and I still blame myself for that. Now we are just struggling with a consistent regulation.

We started out on Vetsulin with his original vet who diagnosed him. They told us to feed him Royal Canin Glycobalance dry food mixed with 1/2 can of the wet food and to come back every 3-6 months for regular fructosamine test to have his insulin dose adjusted. I know now, that is not a great way to manage feline diabetes. During that time we thought he was doing well on 5.5 units of Vetsulin until August of 2023 when he had a hypoglycemic episode.

After that we switched to a new vet - a cat only vet. Our new vet immediately switched his insulin to Prozinc and encouraged us to do at home testing and glucose curves. At that time, I still had not found or joined this forum. So the at home testing was just a glucose curve here and there.

I had high hopes for the Prozinc until Kai had another hypo episode on January 2nd of this year. What a great way for us to start the new year off. After this hypo episode his numbers began to jump around and we couldn't figure out what was causing it. That was when I finally found this forum and joined it.

I will be honest, I was skeptical and pessimistic about this forum when I first found it. Was I really about to take advice from random strangers calming to know more about feline diabetes than my vet?
You bet I was!
I was desperate. And I'm so glad I took that chance. Since then, I have learned so much from this forum and the wonderful caring people who occupy it. Overall, I am embarrassed and ashamed about how poorly uneducated I was on feline diabetes after having a sugar kitty for nearly 4 years. If only I had known then what I know now... I probably could have gotten Kai into remission... or maybe not. The "what ifs" will always be there but for now I am going to continue trying to learn as much as a I can on how to help him.

After his 2nd hypo episode we continued to try and regulate him on the Prozinc with no success. As of April of 2024 we switched him to Lantus and I have been slowly trying to get him regulated on it. Very Very slowly.

In July I did have him up to 2 units and he seemed to be doing well on it. He was still running a little high but after 2 hypo incidents I would rather him be running a little high than too low (Note: I do test him regularly for Ketones). I was fully expecting we would eventually work our way up to at least 3 units. But overall, I could tell the Lantus was much gentler on him and working much better than the Prozinc.

I went out of town for the 4th of July and boarded him with his vet for a week. However, a week after I brought him home from boarding, his numbers began to bounce around again. But you wouldn't have know that just by looking at him, because he acted fine. In fact he acted like he felt great. But those blue and green numbers confused and scared the heck out of me. It was like holding ticking hypoglycemic time bomb. It was only a matter of time.

Our vet ended up putting him on an antibiotic. She believed that he could have some sort of infection or inflammation somewhere and that could possible be what was throwing his numbers off. His urine test at that time did show elevated leukocytes, but everything else looked fine.

We began taking the antibiotic and I also ended up reducing his insulin dose back to 1.5 units. Those two things seemed to help. Its has been a good while since I have recorded any random green numbers. However, his numbers overall still don't make sense and it has both me and the vet scratching our heads. We have run all sorts of tests that have failed to give us any clues as to what is going on with this cat. Other than a little diarrhea, which is probably from the antibiotic, this cat acts fine. At this point, she seems to think it may be a hormonal thing. She has referred us to two Internal Feline Medicine clinics. We won't be able to get a consult with either of them until December. So for now, I am going to try and continue to work with him on the Lantus and pray that we can get this under control ourselves before December. I'll be honestly, my "raining cats and dogs" funds are starting to dry up.

Which brings me to my question...
Last week we did a Fructosamine test and the results obviously showed Kai was averaging high on 1.5 units of Lantus. His spreadsheet also confirms that. My vet told me that if I felt comfortable, I could bump him up to 2 units and see how he reacted to that. She seems to think, that we could be paying too much attention to the glucometer numbers and not the cat.

So this morning I bumped Kai back up to 2 units with the plan to keep him on 2 units for the next several days and then preform a curve this Sunday. However his PMPS was in the blue this evening. I was expecting it to be in the yellow. I didn't think 2 units would really bring him down and keep him that low. Considering he was previously on 2 units and still running a little high. That scares me in to over thinking and second guessing my next move.

AMPS: 349-AlphaTrak (wasn't able to get ReliOn reading)
+6hr: 161-AlphaTrak/158-ReliOn.
PMPS: 176-AlphaTrak / 161-Relion

I am stalling an hour without feeding him to see if he will continue to rise. I have a feeling he will.

If he continues to rise then I will give him the full 2 units... maybe... it depends on how high he rises. But if he dosen't rise... I'm not sure... I may just give him a reduced dose of 1-1.5 units. But if I do that then I know I have to start over. And its only day 1.

I know its only the first day of an increased dose and his body needs time to adjust but I'm just so afraid of another hypo episode. But i'm also afraid that my timidness towards the blue and green numbers that show up in the AM and PM may be the real problem and I'm the one hindering progress.

Can someone please take a look at his spreadsheet and tell me what I'm doing wrong?
Is it me? Is it him? It's probably me.
Am I focusing too much on the numbers? Am testing too much? Am I testing too little?
I did just get a ReliOn meter so I can do a lot more testing without breaking the bank for a $60 bottle of the AlphaTrak test strips now.

Maybe i'm feeding him wrong? It's an all wet diet. Weruva Paw Lickin Chicken and Amazon Livin. All the good requirements. I have a whole separate tab for food research on his spreadsheet. His current food is highlighted in green. And I have also started adding food notes to each day. I recently altered his feeding schedule so he gets lunch, but sometimes he dosen't finish all of his breakfast so I finish feeding him that for lunch plus a little bit of extra, but then sometime he dosen't even eat all of that. Overall his calorie intake is like 210 - 250. Is that too much or too little? He has lost some weight since February. He went from 17lbs to 15.2lbs as of this month. But January was when I switched his food to all wet AND I have been trying to motivate him into exercising and play more. I would like for him to continue loosing weight, but not if its messing with his readings.

I thought maybe it could be the AlphTrak so I just purchased a ReliOn meter a few days ago and i'm doing side by side testing now. It's noted in his spreadsheet.

All his blood test come back clean and normal, other than the obvious diabetic cat things. Urine test show the same - everything is normal, no Ketones either. On paper he looks like a typical diabetic cat.

So what am I doing wrong?
 
Last edited:
Maddie & Kai said:
Hello fellow sugar kitty parents!

I don't really post much here, I'm more of a reader. However, I am seeking some advice and council about our current situation. Our goal is regulation not remission.

I'll start from the beginning and I apologies in advance, I tend to over explain things.

Kai was diagnosed in late 2020 with diabetes. Unfortunately, our window of opportunity for remission has come and gone, and I still blame myself for that. Now we are just struggling with a consistent regulation.

We started out on Vetsulin with his original vet who diagnosed him. They told us to feed him Royal Canin Glycobalance dry food mixed with 1/2 can of the wet food and to come back every 3-6 months for regular fructosamine test to have his insulin dose adjusted. I know now, that is not a great way to manage feline diabetes. During that time we thought he was doing well on 5.5 units of Vetsulin until August of 2023 when he had a hypoglycemic episode.

After that we switched to a new vet - a cat only vet. Our new vet immediately switched his insulin to Prozinc and encouraged us to do at home testing and glucose curves. At that time, I still had not found or joined this forum. So the at home testing was just a glucose curve here and there.

I had high hopes for the Prozinc until Kai had another hypo episode on January 2nd of this year. What a great way for us to start the new year off. After this hypo episode his numbers began to jump around and we couldn't figure out what was causing it. That was when I finally found this forum and joined it.

I will be honest, I was skeptical and pessimistic about this forum when I first found it. Was I really about to take advice from random strangers calming to know more about feline diabetes than my vet?
You bet I was!
I was desperate. And I'm so glad I took that chance. Since then, I have learned so much from this forum and the wonderful caring people who occupy it. Overall, I am embarrassed and ashamed about how poorly uneducated I was on feline diabetes after having a sugar kitty for nearly 4 years. If only I had known then what I know now... I probably could have gotten Kai into remission... or maybe not. The "what ifs" will always be there but for now I am going to continue trying to learn as much as a I can on how to help him.

After his 2nd hypo episode we continued to try and regulate him on the Prozinc with no success. As of April of 2024 we switched him to Lantus and I have been slowly trying to get him regulated on it. Very Very slowly.

In July I did have him up to 2 units and he seemed to be doing well on it. He was still running a little high but after 2 hypo incidents I would rather him be running a little high than too low (Note: I do test him regularly for Ketones). I was fully expecting we would eventually work our way up to at least 3 units. But overall, I could tell the Lantus was much gentler on him and working much better than the Prozinc.

I went out of town for the 4th of July and boarded him with his vet for a week. However, a week after I brought him home from boarding, his numbers began to bounce around again. But you wouldn't have know that just by looking at him, because he acted fine. In fact he acted like he felt great. But those blue and green numbers confused and scared the heck out of me. It was like holding ticking hypoglycemic time bomb. It was only a matter of time.

Our vet ended up putting him on an antibiotic. She believed that he could have some sort of infection or inflammation somewhere and that could possible be what was throwing his numbers off. His urine test at that time did show elevated leukocytes, but everything else looked fine.

We began taking the antibiotic and I also ended up reducing his insulin dose back to 1.5 units. Those two things seemed to help. Its has been a good while since I have recorded any random green numbers. However, his numbers overall still don't make sense and it has both me and the vet scratching our heads. We have run all sorts of tests that have failed to give us any clues as to what is going on with this cat. Other than a little diarrhea, which is probably from the antibiotic, this cat acts fine. At this point, she seems to think it may be a hormonal thing. She has referred us to two Internal Feline Medicine clinics. We won't be able to get a consult with either of them until December. So for now, I am going to try and continue to work with him on the Lantus and pray that we can get this under control ourselves before December. I'll be honestly, my "raining cats and dogs" funds are starting to dry up.

Which brings me to my question...
Last week we did a Fructosamine test and the results obviously showed Kai was averaging high on 1.5 units of Lantus. His spreadsheet also confirms that. My vet told me that if I felt comfortable, I could bump him up to 2 units and see how he reacted to that. She seems to think, that we could be paying too much attention to the glucometer numbers and not the cat.

So this morning I bumped Kai back up to 2 units with the plan to keep him on 2 units for the next several days and then preform a curve this Sunday. However his PMPS was in the blue this evening. I was expecting it to be in the yellow. I didn't think 2 units would really bring him down and keep him that low. Considering he was previously on 2 units and still running a little high. That scares me in to over thinking and second guessing my next move.

AMPS: 349-AlphaTrak (wasn't able to get ReliOn reading)
+6hr: 161-AlphaTrak/158-ReliOn.
PMPS: 176-AlphaTrak / 161-Relion

I am stalling an hour without feeding him to see if he will continue to rise. I have a feeling he will.

If he continues to rise then I will give him the full 2 units... maybe... it depends on how high he rises. But if he dosen't rise... I'm not sure... I may just give him a reduced dose of 1-1.5 units. But if I do that then I know I have to start over. And its only day 1.

I know its only the first day of an increased dose and his body needs time to adjust but I'm just so afraid of another hypo episode. But i'm also afraid that my timidness towards the blue and green numbers that show up in the AM and PM may be the real problem and I'm the one hindering progress.

Can someone please take a look at his spreadsheet and tell me what I'm doing wrong?
Is it me? Is it him? It's probably me.
Am I focusing too much on the numbers? Am testing too much? Am I testing too little?
I did just get a ReliOn meter so I can do a lot more testing without breaking the bank for a $60 bottle of the AlphaTrak test strips now.

Maybe i'm feeding him wrong? It's an all wet diet. Weruva Paw Lickin Chicken and Amazon Livin. All the good requirements. I have a whole separate tab for food research on his spreadsheet. His current food is highlighted in green. And I have also started adding food notes to each day. I recently altered his feeding schedule so he gets lunch, but sometimes he dosen't finish all of his breakfast so I finish feeding him that for lunch plus a little bit of extra, but then sometime he dosen't even eat all of that. Overall his calorie intake is like 210 - 250. Is that too much or too little? He has lost some weight since February. He went from 17lbs to 15.2lbs as of this month. But January was when I switched his food to all wet AND I have been trying to motivate him into exercising and play more. I would like for him to continue loosing weight, but not if its messing with his readings.

I thought maybe it could be the AlphTrak so I just purchased a ReliOn meter a few days ago and i'm doing side by side testing now. It's noted in his spreadsheet.

All his blood test come back clean and normal, other than the obvious diabetic cat things. Urine test show the same - everything is normal, no Ketones either. On paper he looks like a typical diabetic cat.

So what am I doing wrong?
Click to expand...
Hi Welcome to this Forum like you I found this Forum by pure coincidence, and is the best thing that could of happened to my Corky and I, as you, I was clueless on diabetes, it was a nightmare, left all alone by both of my cats since practically born Corky will be 11 this September 18, and Coco is 4, I was almost at the point of a breakdown, Corky and Coco are my family is all I have, and clueless and financially not capable to take care of the illness, if it wasn't for this Forum I would have lost him, I am not one of the experts, but a long time member and I trust These "skeptical advises" as you explained, it has been what has kept my Corky back to himself without diabetes, I trust them blindly, for increase/reduction of insulin, nutrition, and concerns I may have or emergency. Corky's spreadsheet speaks for itself. I also use Prozinc since the beginning, it seems to me that you are not giving time for the cycle to finish once you change the increase or reduction of insulin, I only saw one green number in the spreadsheet, It took me a long time to get use to see these green number on Corky's glucose numbers, I thought the being in the high blues or yellows,, it was a winner, but it took a long time and happy to say that now the more green numbers I see the happier I am and the healthier his pancreas get, the prescribed food, is just that prescribed, and expensive, and dry food is the worse for a diabetic cat most of these foods have a very high content of carbs anywhere from 15-25% , so you feed it his glucose number will rise, it is important that he eats between 0-10% carb foods, I will tag a ProZinc expert, she has brought my Corky to greatness also below there is a Drs Food Chart, you can choose the brand you prefer the third column is the content of % carbs always 0-9/10% A lot of us in this Forum use Fancey Feast Pates, there are many flavor selection and USA made, so no waste goes in this food, my suggestion is to read a lot from this Forum as you have, trust and confidence is a must, in the Forum and yourself, many times many, I asked myself the same questions, Whas it my fault? did I do something wrong? it wasn't until I let go of my fears and trusted these experts here, that my Corky began to get to be his best :bighug::cat::cat: Hope these links can help answer some of your concerns, any small concern is important
@Suzanne & Darcy
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/know-whats-in-your-cats-food.286814/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=129446
 
Maddie & Kai said:
Hello fellow sugar kitty parents!

I don't really post much here, I'm more of a reader. However, I am seeking some advice and council about our current situation. Our goal is regulation not remission.

I'll start from the beginning and I apologies in advance, I tend to over explain things.

Kai was diagnosed in late 2020 with diabetes. Unfortunately, our window of opportunity for remission has come and gone, and I still blame myself for that. Now we are just struggling with a consistent regulation.

We started out on Vetsulin with his original vet who diagnosed him. They told us to feed him Royal Canin Glycobalance dry food mixed with 1/2 can of the wet food and to come back every 3-6 months for regular fructosamine test to have his insulin dose adjusted. I know now, that is not a great way to manage feline diabetes. During that time we thought he was doing well on 5.5 units of Vetsulin until August of 2023 when he had a hypoglycemic episode.

After that we switched to a new vet - a cat only vet. Our new vet immediately switched his insulin to Prozinc and encouraged us to do at home testing and glucose curves. At that time, I still had not found or joined this forum. So the at home testing was just a glucose curve here and there.

I had high hopes for the Prozinc until Kai had another hypo episode on January 2nd of this year. What a great way for us to start the new year off. After this hypo episode his numbers began to jump around and we couldn't figure out what was causing it. That was when I finally found this forum and joined it.

I will be honest, I was skeptical and pessimistic about this forum when I first found it. Was I really about to take advice from random strangers calming to know more about feline diabetes than my vet?
You bet I was!
I was desperate. And I'm so glad I took that chance. Since then, I have learned so much from this forum and the wonderful caring people who occupy it. Overall, I am embarrassed and ashamed about how poorly uneducated I was on feline diabetes after having a sugar kitty for nearly 4 years. If only I had known then what I know now... I probably could have gotten Kai into remission... or maybe not. The "what ifs" will always be there but for now I am going to continue trying to learn as much as a I can on how to help him.

After his 2nd hypo episode we continued to try and regulate him on the Prozinc with no success. As of April of 2024 we switched him to Lantus and I have been slowly trying to get him regulated on it. Very Very slowly.

In July I did have him up to 2 units and he seemed to be doing well on it. He was still running a little high but after 2 hypo incidents I would rather him be running a little high than too low (Note: I do test him regularly for Ketones). I was fully expecting we would eventually work our way up to at least 3 units. But overall, I could tell the Lantus was much gentler on him and working much better than the Prozinc.

I went out of town for the 4th of July and boarded him with his vet for a week. However, a week after I brought him home from boarding, his numbers began to bounce around again. But you wouldn't have know that just by looking at him, because he acted fine. In fact he acted like he felt great. But those blue and green numbers confused and scared the heck out of me. It was like holding ticking hypoglycemic time bomb. It was only a matter of time.

Our vet ended up putting him on an antibiotic. She believed that he could have some sort of infection or inflammation somewhere and that could possible be what was throwing his numbers off. His urine test at that time did show elevated leukocytes, but everything else looked fine.

We began taking the antibiotic and I also ended up reducing his insulin dose back to 1.5 units. Those two things seemed to help. Its has been a good while since I have recorded any random green numbers. However, his numbers overall still don't make sense and it has both me and the vet scratching our heads. We have run all sorts of tests that have failed to give us any clues as to what is going on with this cat. Other than a little diarrhea, which is probably from the antibiotic, this cat acts fine. At this point, she seems to think it may be a hormonal thing. She has referred us to two Internal Feline Medicine clinics. We won't be able to get a consult with either of them until December. So for now, I am going to try and continue to work with him on the Lantus and pray that we can get this under control ourselves before December. I'll be honestly, my "raining cats and dogs" funds are starting to dry up.

Which brings me to my question...
Last week we did a Fructosamine test and the results obviously showed Kai was averaging high on 1.5 units of Lantus. His spreadsheet also confirms that. My vet told me that if I felt comfortable, I could bump him up to 2 units and see how he reacted to that. She seems to think, that we could be paying too much attention to the glucometer numbers and not the cat.

So this morning I bumped Kai back up to 2 units with the plan to keep him on 2 units for the next several days and then preform a curve this Sunday. However his PMPS was in the blue this evening. I was expecting it to be in the yellow. I didn't think 2 units would really bring him down and keep him that low. Considering he was previously on 2 units and still running a little high. That scares me in to over thinking and second guessing my next move.

AMPS: 349-AlphaTrak (wasn't able to get ReliOn reading)
+6hr: 161-AlphaTrak/158-ReliOn.
PMPS: 176-AlphaTrak / 161-Relion

I am stalling an hour without feeding him to see if he will continue to rise. I have a feeling he will.

If he continues to rise then I will give him the full 2 units... maybe... it depends on how high he rises. But if he dosen't rise... I'm not sure... I may just give him a reduced dose of 1-1.5 units. But if I do that then I know I have to start over. And its only day 1.

I know its only the first day of an increased dose and his body needs time to adjust but I'm just so afraid of another hypo episode. But i'm also afraid that my timidness towards the blue and green numbers that show up in the AM and PM may be the real problem and I'm the one hindering progress.

Can someone please take a look at his spreadsheet and tell me what I'm doing wrong?
Is it me? Is it him? It's probably me.
Am I focusing too much on the numbers? Am testing too much? Am I testing too little?
I did just get a ReliOn meter so I can do a lot more testing without breaking the bank for a $60 bottle of the AlphaTrak test strips now.

Maybe i'm feeding him wrong? It's an all wet diet. Weruva Paw Lickin Chicken and Amazon Livin. All the good requirements. I have a whole separate tab for food research on his spreadsheet. His current food is highlighted in green. And I have also started adding food notes to each day. I recently altered his feeding schedule so he gets lunch, but sometimes he dosen't finish all of his breakfast so I finish feeding him that for lunch plus a little bit of extra, but then sometime he dosen't even eat all of that. Overall his calorie intake is like 210 - 250. Is that too much or too little? He has lost some weight since February. He went from 17lbs to 15.2lbs as of this month. But January was when I switched his food to all wet AND I have been trying to motivate him into exercising and play more. I would like for him to continue loosing weight, but not if its messing with his readings.

I thought maybe it could be the AlphTrak so I just purchased a ReliOn meter a few days ago and i'm doing side by side testing now. It's noted in his spreadsheet.

All his blood test come back clean and normal, other than the obvious diabetic cat things. Urine test show the same - everything is normal, no Ketones either. On paper he looks like a typical diabetic cat.

So what am I doing wrong?
Click to expand...
@Bandit's Mom
@tiffmaxee
@Wendy&Neko
 
Hi. I felt the same as you about strangers. Now I’m one of them advising. My vet stopped giving dosing advice and I would just email my as every so often.

Are you using syringes with half unit markings? If so it will be easier to dose using our methods and I suggest you start following SLGS which you can find in the Lantus forum sticky titled dosing methods.

I have a few other suggestions You want to increase and decrease in .25 increments. I don’t see any BG on your spreadsheet that would be hypo. I do see an 86 which is not hypo unless there were symptoms. A cat that’s not diabetic regularly has BG in the 50-100 range.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
If you don't have the U-100 syringes with half unitsl markings
you can get them from Amazon without a vets script
https://www.amazon.com/UltiCare-31-Gauge-Veterinary-Insulin-Syringes/dp/B009LTE0DO
Click to expand...
tiffmaxee said:
Hi. I felt the same as you about strangers. Now I’m one of them advising. My vet stopped giving dosing advice and I would just email my as every so often.

Are you using syringes with half unit markings? If so it will be easier to dose using our methods and I suggest you start following SLGS which you can find in the Lantus forum sticky titled dosing methods.

I have a few other suggestions You want to increase and decrease in .25 increments. I don’t see any BG on your spreadsheet that would be hypo. I do see an 86 which is not hypo unless there were symptoms. A cat that’s not diabetic regularly has BG in the 50-100 range.
Click to expand...
Actually below 50 is Hypo, then time for Hypo Kit
 
My cat had BG of 32 but was not hypo. We use hc food or syrup to prevent a symptomatic hypo. That’s why it’s called a hypo kit. You don’t want them to stay that low fur a long time.
 
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Non diabetic cats can test in the 40's on a human meter, but we don't want a diabetic cat below 50 as it leaves no room for error. However, since you were using the AT until very recently, we don't want him below 68 on the AT.

If you plan on following our Start Low Go Slow (SLGS) dosing method, you'd reduce the dose if he goes below 90 (either meter).

A couple comments about testing. First, not all cats regularly have their Lantus nadir at +6 and even for cats that do, they can vary a bit by cycle. It's better to mix up the tests a bit, and try to do a curve once a week to get a better picture of what is happening between shots.

Ideally each day you'd get a test for each preshots, and one other per cycle. The PM cycle second test can be just before you go to bed. Many cats go lower at night and we decide how to dose based on how low the dose takes the cat, so it's a good idea to see what he's doing at night.
Maddie & Kai said:
Overall his calorie intake is like 210 - 250. Is that too much or too little? He has lost some weight since February. He went from 17lbs to 15.2lbs as of this month.
Click to expand...
Use your scale and what the vet says is an ideal weight for him to determine if you are feeding the right amount of food. Activity levels and metabolism also play a part in how much food a cat needs. If you want him to continue to lose weight, make sure it's a slow weight loss.
 
Thank you everyone for the helpful advice. I really appreciate all the answers.

Yes , I do have U-100 syringes for the Lantus. And I am trying to abide by the SLGS method.

Also, I have read in the Lantus document that sometimes cats will nadir at either the +4 or +6 or sometime earlier than that. The main reason you mostly see test at the +6 hour is because I come home from work during lunch to test and check on him.

My main concerns are when his pre-shot numbers are much lower than they normally are. If you take a look all the way up to Early July just after where it says "boarding" you will see a rainbow of numbers. We were originally on 2 units of insulin at that time and he was running high on that. I predicted that we would eventually have to bump up to either 2.5 or 3 units. But then his numbers began to bounce around and I was receiving some low pre-shot numbers and then he would jump back up high because I would reduce his dose. We were all over the place. Has anyone ever seen anything like that? What's the best way to deal with bouncing numbers when that happens? Do you have any ideas on what could have caused him to bounce around like that?
 
Maddie & Kai said:
Thank you everyone for the helpful advice. I really appreciate all the answers.

Yes , I do have U-100 syringes for the Lantus. And I am trying to abide by the SLGS method.

Also, I have read in the Lantus document that sometimes cats will nadir at either the +4 or +6 or sometime earlier than that. The main reason you mostly see test at the +6 hour is because I come home from work during lunch to test and check on him.

My main concerns are when his pre-shot numbers are much lower than they normally are. If you take a look all the way up to Early July just after where it says "boarding" you will see a rainbow of numbers. We were originally on 2 units of insulin at that time and he was running high on that. I predicted that we would eventually have to bump up to either 2.5 or 3 units. But then his numbers began to bounce around and I was receiving some low pre-shot numbers and then he would jump back up high because I would reduce his dose. We were all over the place. Has anyone ever seen anything like that? What's the best way to deal with bouncing numbers when that happens? Do you have any ideas on what could have caused him to bounce around like that?
Click to expand...
@Sienna and Gabby (GA)
 
I've seen cats nadir around +2, my Neko's Lantus nadirs was in the +7 to +9 range usually, but I saw it range from +3.5 to +13. Just try to mix up the testing on the weekends if you can.

Bounces are caused by lower numbers than they are used to, or fast drops. July 8th you saw a 75, which would mean a reduction down to 1.75 units per SLGS. But you stayed the course at 2.0 units. August 11th he was on 1.5 units and earned a reduction down to 1.25 units with that 86. A couple days later you increased to 2.0 units.

More night time test data, even a +2 or +3 before bed would be helpful, as well as curves on the weekend to fill in missing data. I suspect some of those higher numbers may be due to bounces from missed numbers lower than he used to. Having said that, yesterday was a lovely run of numbers in the 100's. :cool:
 
Maddie --

The thing that jumped out at me from Kai's spreadsheet is that you may be holding doses for too long. With SGLS, unless numbers drop below 90 which signals a dose reduction, if the numbers aren't in normal range (50 - 120) after a week, you increase the dose. It looks like you were holding the 1.5u dose for about a month. The difficulty with holding numbers overly long is that it may cause glucose toxicity. The term sounds worse than it is. What it means is that your cat's body starts to treat the higher numbers as the new "normal" and it becomes harder to get numbers into a lower range.

The other thought I have is that you may want to work on getting comfortable with seeing Kai in lower numbers. While I can appreciate that seeing your cat in low numbers can be scary, if your want to see the pre-shot numbers in a better range, the rest of the cycle needs to be in better numbers. Remember, the pre-shot numbers are generally higher than the nadir. Pre-shot numbers begin to lower once the entire cycle is flatter. If you are nervous about having Kai in a normal range, it may be hard to get the pre-shots into the range you're looking for. As an example, I used TR to manage Gabby's diabetes. I would shoot the full dose even if her pre-shot numbers were in the 50s (or above).

I also think Wendy made a good point. Without PM tests, you're missing half of Kai's data. It's hard to see the big picture without the evening info.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Maddie --

The thing that jumped out at me from Kai's spreadsheet is that you may be holding doses for too long. With SGLS, unless numbers drop below 90 which signals a dose reduction, if the numbers aren't in normal range (50 - 120) after a week, you increase the dose. It looks like you were holding the 1.5u dose for about a month. The difficulty with holding numbers overly long is that it may cause glucose toxicity. The term sounds worse than it is. What it means is that your cat's body starts to treat the higher numbers as the new "normal" and it becomes harder to get numbers into a lower range.
Click to expand...

I didn't understand what glucose toxicity was but now I do. This makes much more sense to me now. I need to be a bit more aggressive.
Thank you both for your responses and help. I wasn't able to be home with him today to do any mid day testing but I may try to do a curve tomorrow and I will defiantly gets some numbers tonight. Recently, I have been trying to get some more nighttime readings in.

I appreciate everyone chiming in and will keep you updated.
 
Maddie & Kai said:
I didn't understand what glucose toxicity was but now I do. This makes much more sense to me now. I need to be a bit more aggressive.
Thank you both for your responses and help. I wasn't able to be home with him today to do any mid day testing but I may try to do a curve tomorrow and I will defiantly gets some numbers tonight. Recently, I have been trying to get some more nighttime readings in.

I appreciate everyone chiming in and will keep you updated.
Click to expand...
We will be here for you also think about this your anxiety will filter right thru him, cats senses emotions very strongly, I’ll tell you what was told to me, take a step back breath in and breath out everything will be ok, it takes a bit of time for you and your baby to get use to everything, but before you know it it will be a walk in the park, try to test as often as you can, so we can all see the results and we can help you better, it’s not all going to happen from one day to the next, but be sure if you are attempting any changes, no matter how small they are as well as your concerns, let the members know, there will always be some one to guide you along, read as much as you can in the Main Forum, trust is the main thing. You got this!!:bighug::bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
 
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