Advise: SS numbers make no sense

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by LokiMo, Sep 17, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. LokiMo

    LokiMo Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2021
    My vet wanted us to increase to 2u with Loki so we did and yesterday his numbers looked fantastic and then last night he starting creeping back up and this morning his AMPS was higher than it’s been in days. When his numbers get this high he pees on things and it’s causing my family a lot of stress and tension between family members that want to help the cat vs family members whose items he keeps ruining. I am getting frustrated because it seems like his numbers come down for the early cycles when we increase but then they jump back up like the insulin isn’t working. I don’t understand what is happening. He eats every 4 hours (2 normal meals and 4 snacks between).
     
  2. Denver & Magic (GA)

    Denver & Magic (GA) Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2021
    Magic did this consistently until this week, you can see it on his spreadsheet... It's like someone now flipped a switch and he'd decided he wants to be 'normal' now.
    The way it was explained to me is his numbers were so high for so long his body thinks the high numbers are good and the low are bad. His body I guess had to realize that 'Hey, these numbers are lower and I'm not dead so maybe they're ok too'

    I was in the same boat as you and it was extremely frustrating. You'd have like a day of relatively better numbers and then right back through the roof again.
     
  3. Cris & Wolvi

    Cris & Wolvi Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2021
    I had the same situation back in 2019... and then from one day to another (it took 5 months) he went into remission.
    Unfortunately since one month ago he needs to take insuline again... and his numbers are dancing again...
    You need to be patient...
     
  4. LokiMo

    LokiMo Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2021
    I guess I am mostly wondering if we should hold at 2u and for how long? I waited over a week at 1u because the numbers were all over the place but then I was told I held it too long and should’ve increased after 6 cycles. I’ve gotten conflicting info and getting frustrated.
     
  5. Denver & Magic (GA)

    Denver & Magic (GA) Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2021
    Was there anything unique about yesterday that would explain the 86? (ie. not eating as much as usual, etc.)
    When are his feeding/snack times?

    With Magic, +2 is when ProZinc starts to have an effect and it has a considerable effect by +4. It takes about 30 minutes for food to start to impact numbers.
    One of the members here suggested giving him a mini-meal around +2.5 to help slow the speed of the drop and make it less dramatic. That seems to have stopped the 'panic' bouncing.
    My guess is that the 410 and the 567 is a bounce due to his body freaking out about the 86. I went through this repeatedly myself.

    Magic is a 12.5lb cat. He gets four cans of Fancy Feast a day. One at shot time which he eats until around +1.5ish. He then gets his mini-meals at +2.75 and he'll eat about half upon serving and will then graze on it until I take it away at +9.5.

    If it were me, I'd stay at the 2u as your vet requested for the next week and slide the snack times to be about 60-90 minutes before the large drops to smooth them out. If they're more gradua,l the through the roof spikes may start to come down like Magic's did.

    Every cat is different and unfortunately they don't come with a crystal ball or ouija board to figure them out easily.
     
  6. LokiMo

    LokiMo Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2021
    Loki is fed a can of pate at 8am and then he has an auto feeder set up with 1/2 can of tiki cat or pate with an ice cube at noon and 4pm. He gets another can of food for dinner at 8pm and then the auto feeder is set up with another 1/2 can for midnight and 4am. So he gets food every 4 hours and freeze dried chicken after being tested.

    Nothing unique for the 86 yesterday except that we were on cycle 4 of an increase.
     
  7. Denver & Magic (GA)

    Denver & Magic (GA) Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2021
    I'd try moving the noon feeding back to like 11am and maybe increase the amount of food a little and decrease the 4pm slightly since the insulin should be loosing effect from then until the next shot. From what I've seen with my cat, once they bounce EVERYTHING will be screwed up for for 3-4 days so less bouncing = less wonky numbers. And, while they're bouncing there is nothing you can do to stop the process until they level off on their own.
     
  8. LokiMo

    LokiMo Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2021
    I will do that tonight. Maybe 2/3 at 11 am and pm and 1/3 at 3-4am/pm?
     
  9. Denver & Magic (GA)

    Denver & Magic (GA) Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2021
    Yeah, I think that may help. But since he bounced it may take a few days for you to actually see the result of the change. Btw, Loki is a beautiful cat.

    If you have time/supplies, it may be worth getting a full curve after you adjust the feeding times to get a clearer picture of what's actually happening
     
  10. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Couple of things....your spreadsheet says you're using the SLGS method, so nobody should have told you to only hold the dose for 6 cycles (unless you were doing the MPM at that time). On SLGS, the rules are:

    According to the SLGS method, you should have held the 1.75 for at least 14 cycles (unless Loki dropped below 90 during that time) before going up to 2U (I understand you were doing what your vet told you though)

    Due to the 86 yesterday, Loki earned a reduction so you should go back to the 1.75 dose now and hold it for the full 7 days. (again, unless he drops below 90 again while on the 1.75)

    He's definitely bouncing. Bounces happen when 1. they drop too low, 2. they drop too fast, 3. they drop into numbers their body isn't used to anymore (or any combination of all 3). The liver releases stored sugars and hormones to bring the BG back up quickly and it can take up to 6 cycles for the bounce to clear so during that time, you just have to be patient.
     
  11. LokiMo

    LokiMo Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2021
    I went back and looked through my posts on the forum and it looks like it was you that said I should not have held the 1u dose as long as I did and to do an increase and re-assess in 6 cycles. Maybe I misunderstood. I’ve been on SLGS since the beginning and was hesitant to change to modified last week because it was the first week of school for my daughter and also I had overtime at work so we were gone most of the day.

    I did listen to the vet who looked at the spreadsheet and said they didn’t think the 1.75 was going to get his numbers down enough and I should try .5u increments.
     
  12. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Looks like a bounce from that nice green. Give it a few cycles to clear the bounce.
     
  13. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    No, you're right. I didn't notice the SLGS so that was totally my fault. (although as often as you test, I don't see any reason why you couldn't' do the MPM which would allow you to make changes more often if the dose isn't getting the results you want)

    You might want to re-read the MPM and see if it's something you'd like to try now that you have a little more experience.
     
  14. LokiMo

    LokiMo Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2021
    I am interested in doing it now that I’m past a major deadline at work so my hours are more flexible.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page