Beenie's dose

You could probably try 0.4 u or 0.6 u increases. At high doses, people are often told to increase by 0.5 u increments. Re syringes: you could go back to U40 syringes with half units marks. They're usually 30 unit capacity and you're a long way from that. You likely don't need to use the tiny increments you can get with a U100 syringe.

 

Got it, thanks!!

 

New toy in the house!!! Belly up excited
These are non BG number victories!!

 

I want to rub her belly!

 

And she LOVES belly rubs!!!

 

Maury likes them too!

 

She's so adorable!!!

 

What is it about cat bellies?!? I want to rub her belly too!

 

Beenie has had an all around great day. Tonight we got our lowest PS number of 257. Yay!!

 

Time for another blue, Beenie!

 

Morning! So I had hoped for a blue too and set my alarm to catch it overnight. Didn't catch it. Could it have happened?? I can't see why Beenie bounced this time. It made sense to me when @Djamila noted it when she went to 192 on 7/6/2017 that it was a bounce because it was a low number for her. Was there a low number that I missed +9 thru +11 last night?

Anyway it was nice surfing in those yellows yesterday and Beenie did have a great day so that's a good thing. My question is now do I increase her tonight as we are wrapping up the 3rd cycle on 8.6 U or do I wait for this bounce to clear if that's what it is?
I believe we keep pushing forward because we didn't see a significant drop but want to make sure its advisable to go to 9.0 U tonight.

Thanks!!!

 

Morning Michelle!
Hmmm since you increased by 0.4U this time, my thoughts would be to hold it for another day. Like bigger increase so hold an extra 2 cycles to allow for adjustment / clear bounce . What I see is the higher dose kinda caused a delayed bounce, so she had more insulin each time to help get her into yellows but the lowest number was actually PMPS, meaning the "bounce" was stretched out to later. Did any of that make sense?

 

ok so I had to read your response three times and I do get it now . So I will hold the dose for two extra cycles and then increase. If anything wonky number wise happens between now and then I know where to find you guys

Thanks!! Have a great day!

 

Hmmm....bounce or not, I think I'd press on with the increases. The protocol says if the mid-cycles are above 200, you just keep going. You pause to clear a bounce when the nadir is closer to numbers you need to be careful around.

However, I'm tagging @StephG on this one since your doses are getting so high. I think it would be good to get some eyes on this who have more experience with higher dose kitties. I'm not sure who else would be good to loop in on this one, but hopefully either Steph or Yong can chime in with some other folks who might be able to help out.

 

Djamila, maybe we can meet in the middle and just hold for 1 extra cycle? lol. Don't Michelle, I had to re-read it multiple times as I typed it , "is this what I'm trying to say" haha.
Also the only other kitty I can think of on Prozinc is Teresa's Buddy. The others are on Lantus/Levemir

 

She did hit nadir late during the AM cycle yesterday since the PMPS was the nadir, so I agree with that part, but when you think about holding the dose, what benefit would there be? I guess I just didn't understand that part of the suggestion.

It never ever hurts my feelings if someone goes a different route, so whether you decide to hold a few more cycles, hold one more cycle, or increase - whatever decision you make it fine!

 

I'm seeing a trend that higher dose kitties are on Levemir. Lantus apparently stings once you get to 6.0 U and over. I just picked up a new vial of ProZinc yesterday so I'm not giving up on it yet. Will certainly consider it as we get closer the end of this new vial which I haven't had to tap into yet.

I will think about holding or increasing. My original thought was to keep going and I may just do that. Curious though what StephG has to say.

Thanks so much for the feedback

 

Hmmmm I'm surprised with the +6 of 249. I'm thinking not a bounce otherwise wouldn't she have stayed more "flat".
I can never predict her numbers. I thought for sure I'd get a blue last night. Didn't think we'd see yellow today...maybe tonight but not six hours after that AMPS.

 

That's a good sign. I think we're getting closer...

 

Yay! I was hoping you'd say that.

 

You've got some great responses on your thread over in Lantus. How are you feeling about it?

 

Well I posted that before I got her +6 number and if I had seen that number prior I may have not posted. I'm kinda excited on what has happened int the past 24 hrs. Beenie had such a great day yesterday, played a little, had that twinkle in her eye, more alert!! I guess what threw me was her AMPS number and I thought it set us back but it doesn't appear that way at all based on +6 and +8 numbers. I promise I won't freak at PMPS number if its wonky

The feedback from LL land is great. Testing would be the next course of action and then a decision would have to be made if any of the tests we positive. Although its the Acro I'm worried about. IAA would be no surprise.

Thanks Djamilia!!!

 

I have a funny feeling about tonight. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a .

It can be hard to get a lot of response over in the LL forum, so it was nice to see so many people hop on and give you some good information. They really do have much more experience with high dose conditions over there since when a kitty hits those higher amounts, we usually recommend people consider switching. Since you have a new bottle of prozinc, you have some time to consider what you'd like to do, and to talk with your vet about your options for switching insulin, getting the tests done, etc.

Meanwhile, hoping for some good numbers for Beenie tonight!

 

*paws crossed*

 

Ugh. My funny feeling was very very wrong.

 

The night is young....there could still be a blue brewing Lol

 

Yes! He's gone up at +2 before and then back down at +4

 

Maybe your funny feeling was just early Djamila...like you'll see a blue today or something?

 

Just keep on truckin'! The increase in yellows tells us you're going in the right direction, big gulper that she is.

 

I guess it makes sense that Beenie would have a high flat cycle after that "low" of 224. Hopefully she'll clear it soon and get on with that anticipated blue.

 

Thanks guys!!! Happy Monday

 

+9 195

 

Wooohoooo! Wow, she is hitting nadir late, huh? Well, better late than never, especially if it brings a blue!

 

Crazy, right?!? I'm so happy to see our second blue. Your funny feeling WAS right

 

Lol...well, it was bound to be right eventually anyway. Now I'm curious what the PMPS is going to look like since she's dropping so late in the cycle. Bounce? Low? Normal? ....?

 

We shall see...I can hardly wait until 6:30

 

YAY for blue!!!!

 

Let's see another blue today, Beenie!

 

I had to come to my office today. Gotta show my face once in awhile

I hope she gets another blue today too!!! I just won't be able to catch it. If only I could teach the civvies to test her

I did catch them having a meeting this morning . Guess they're planning what trouble they can get into when mommy is out

 

Lol! Oh my, that does look like a congregation of conspirators! We are suspicious that there is a secret kitty board where they all chat about what shenanigans they can pull on us around here. I'm convinced cats have some sort of telepathy to assist them in plotting trouble.

 

Totally agree!!

 

Awww who's the other snowshoe and orange buff?

 

I was just thinking.."Where's Yong"???? What timing! That is Ming (snoweshoe) the cuddliest and Buddy (our newest member, he's a stinker)!!

 

I'm here but starting next week I won't be living on the forum anymore but I'll still be checking in and more on days off, of course

 

Looks like the last time he had a drop like that early in the cycle he ate a toy. You might want to hide the foam things!

 

Lol, yea that is true. Crazy how out of nowhere an unsuspecting toy gets sent to toy heaven.

 

I'm a little jealous of your Lantus thread! I post over there and it's crickets. Your thread is super interesting. I'm learning a lot from reading it. I had no idea that acro can be in cats that are low dose!

 

Oh why folks don't respond much over there in LL? I've been getting so much feedback I thought it was the norm. There's a lot of posts daily so its probably hard to keep up.
If its true and they estimate 1 in 4 sugarbabies have acro, why doesn't every FD kitty get tested?? But why go down that road if you're only thinking insulin resistance is a symptom?!? So much to learn

PS I don't think I ever use the word "folks" in real life

 

Same here, with learning a lot and hearing crickets .

 

Lol....I use folks and y'all and bless your heart! all the time -- and I've never even been to the south! I think they really like the more complicated cases over there. My spreadsheet is pretty dull by Lantus standards, so it's hard to get attention. When Sam was sick this past week and I posted with a little more urgency, I did get quite a bit of help.

I love getting to learn about this acro/IAA stuff. I haven't really spent time looking into it since usually if someone gets into high doses we encourage them to try Lantus/Levemir. You raise a good question over there about why we do that. I think it's the idea of - if this isn't working, try something else. And also the cost since the L insulins are so much cheaper. But that does leave the question of what would happen if someone stayed on Prozinc with a high dose kitty?

Now that I think about it though - we pretty much know that it's a high dose condition at that point, and as I've been reading the last couple of days it's pretty clear that switching insulin doesn't fix a high dose condition. And now to contradict myself - Steph says that Chuck feels better on Lantus, and I think that counts for a lot.

 

Re LL versus ProZinc: many acros are high dosers so the cost of ProZinc would be prohibitive and the volume you'd have to inject would be large. I think, too, that the huge L depot can keep BG under better control over 24 hours then the in/out ProZinc.

 

Now I'm a little more confused . I thought a unit was a unit and when I read how dosing works with Lantus if we are at 9 U on Prozinc wouldn't that mean we would continue with 9 U on Lantus (or Levimer)? Oh wait its because of the syringes?!? You only use U100 for L/L, correct? Then that would make sense. Right now I'm using the U-100 for fine tuning although right now if I had U40 with half unit markers that would be fine but I don't so no need to order more syringes. Anyway converting we are at 23.5 U on the U-100 syringe. If we were say to switch tomorrow and we would only draw 9.4 U using a U100 syringe if we were on Levemir? If this is correct I sooooo get it now and thank you for clarifying. This make so much more sense on switching, sheer volume of the injection.

 

Yes, that's correct. The insulins are different concentrations so you need less volume of an L insulin to do the same job.

 

Now I really wish I didn't have the new bottle of ProZinc. I can't believe I didn't get that until now! I guess better late than never.

 

How long do you think it will last you? Maybe by the time you get to the vet, do the tests, get the result, order the L/L (whichever you choose), maybe by then it will be mostly gone?

 

I forgot how to calculate how many days you have on a vial based on units per day used. I saw it somewhere on the forum but forgot where. I did the calculation last week when we were on a lower dose and a vial would last us 27 days. So it won't take long to use and I think you're right by the time I get results back and everything I should be done or almost done with the new vial.
Then the big decision will be Lantus or Levemir . I would've just done with Lantus but since a few have had the stinging issues at higher dose I wonder. Some do not, ECID. We'll see.

 

Hi Kris
@Kris & Teasel
I know you posted this a while ago but its been on my mind since I said that I liked the "flexibility" of ProZinc. I've been scouring the LL stickies and we are so suited for TR on Lantus/Levemir. I already test easily 5 times a day if not more. Never late/early with injections. Based on all the scenarios of people that work full time, even out of the house, it can still be done! I feel so much better because I was so worried that this new insulin would be a very strict/difficult protocol to follow. I've been following that protocol for some time now so it wouldn't be unfamiliar territory, am I wrong? I'll just need to view Beenie's SS a little different because of the depot. It makes more sense to me now that I've been studying up
I just like being prepared, if you couldn't already tell

 

If all the Lantus/Lev requirements re timing, testing, etc. are ticked off on your checklist then you'll be fine with it. It's the way to go with a high dose kitty.

 

Just checking in. Nothing new to report. We're going to 12 U tomorrow morning so we're flying through this vial. Uuugh!
Mailings from MSU haven't come in yet so still a wait until we get testing done and results back. We'll be ordering Levemir in a few days. I know not every kitty has the stinging issue on high doses of Lantus but some do so I just want to circumvent that and go to Levemir.