Buddys SS up and going 3rd part about dosing

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Teresa & Buddy, Feb 8, 2017.

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  1. Pati

    Pati Member

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    Are you good Teresa? I need to go work dogs but wanted to make sure you are ok.
     
  2. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    He is up to 137, have not feed him yet.
     
  3. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I was wrong he is up to 154. Doesn't he need to be over 200 to shoot, and at that what u would you shoot.
     
  4. Pati

    Pati Member

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    I would just feed and no shoot because you would have to stall a long time to get him to a shootable number. Then your schedule will be off.
     
  5. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I think so.
     
  6. Pati

    Pati Member

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    You have no data from giving insulin when he is this low. Generally over 200 to shoot.
     
  7. Pati

    Pati Member

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    You won't be causing him harm by deciding to no shoot. When I first had a number that was too low to shoot, Kris told me think of it as a fur shot. If you no shoot but collect data throughout the day, that will be good information for future decisions.
     
  8. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I think so, he is @ 154, this same number twice.
     
  9. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I'm here now, Teresa. What did you end up doing? No shot?
     
  10. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I agree with what Pati said - look at it as a fur shot and don't give any insulin this AM. Do some testing today, maybe every 3 hours? Without insulin he won't hypo. This would be good data to have though.

    The recommended method for handling a low PS is:
    1. Know in advance what your "no shot" cut off BG is. We recommend 200 if you don't have much data. That can go lower once you have data/experience.
    2. Try the stall/retest technique: stall without feeding for 20 minutes and retest. If the BG is above your NS number, give a reduced dose (no hard and fast rule about how much - post for advice). Repeat this stall/retest in 20 min increments up to 60 min.
    3. If you don't have time to stall and BG isn't rock bottom, give a much reduced dose (30-50% of regular dose? less if you're anxious).
    4. No shot. This isn't the ideal option but it's the safest.
     
  11. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Buddy's doctor ( the 1 who did his surgery) told me 1 time if he was @120 to give him 2u, which I will not do.
     
  12. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't either! No shot is safest. What's your final decision?
     
  13. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I have not giving him a shot, and he has ate. I guess I could take reading again, and maybe with your help decide on a reduced unit.
     
  14. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    How far are you past his normal shot time, Teresa? There's quite a bit of timing flexibility with ProZinc but it's not unlimited. Test and post so we can see how he's doing.
     
  15. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I feed Buddy @8:04, and @8:38 is reading is 220. Do you think I should give him a reduced dose.
     
  16. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I usually give his shot around 7:30, so we are not too far off.
     
  17. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    How about giving him 1 u? The food will cause his BG to go up while the insulin is gradually kicking in. Test again in 2 hours?
     
  18. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    His latest # is 277, I am thinking about giving him a shot.
     
  19. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Do you think 1.5u would be too much
     
  20. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    You could certainly try that and be ready to monitor and steer with food. Some insulin is better than none.
     
  21. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I may try 1.25 or maybe 150
     
  22. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Whatever you feel comfortable with.
     
  23. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate you being there, I gave him 1.25.
     
  24. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Should be OK. Yes, I'm at home today.
     
  25. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE="Kris & Teasel, post: 1894829, member: by I could just click on to Buddy's SS. I thought I had lost his SS,
    so I started a conversation to you about losing Buddy's SS because I could not remember the ladies name who helped me with it. I was going to see if she could help me, but I just lost where I could click on it and pull it up. I can pull it up by typing it in, but if anyone knows how I can get it where I can just click on it please let me know.
     
  26. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Those pinks are no surprise after the lowered dose. However, you now have some data that tells you that feeding first and then giving about half the dose worked to keep him safe.
     
  27. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    The tech person we usually get help from is @Marje and Gracie. I think you're referring to the editable version where you can enter data, right?
     
  28. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I can edit the version I pull up, but I have to type in Buddy's Spreadsheet. The way it was before it was on 1 of links at the top of the page and it said Buddy's Spreadsheet and all I had to do was click on it and it appeared on my screen. Now I have to type it in, that is doable until I can find out how to get it done the other way.
     
  29. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Kris & Teasel,
    Has anyone else had all these problems we have had. I am not talking about the surgery but everything else. Has it ever happened to you like it did to us this morning. What I meant was the really low number and then his BG was 594 1 evening. Then when I call the doctors they want to give him an outrageous amount of insulin.
     
  30. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Maybe wait to ask @Marje and Gracie?
     
  31. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    My cat is a champion bouncer and has gone from low blue to red on occasion. It's his pattern and I don't panic. A very low number is far more dangerous than a single black number. You don't want your kitty to stay in high numbers all the time but the odd very high BG isn't an emergency.
     
  32. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    What I had you do before is go to your google drive, open the SS, and save it as one of your favorites on your browse tool bar. I don't k ow if you are using a Mac or PC but there should be an option on either to save it as a favorite. That way, when you open your internet browser, it will be right there at the top and you can just click on it but you must be signed in to google for it to work. I just always stay signed in to google.

    Let me know if that doesn't work.
     
  33. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    B
    Buddy took his shot late today, his usual time is around 7:30 a.m., but this morning he got his shot @9:20 a.m. I wondered if I gave his shot earlier than 12hrs. would cause Buddy a problem. I was thinking around 8 p.m., Then maybe in the morning moving him back some more. I would like to know have you ever gave a shot earlier than 12hrs., or do you think that is reasonable.
     
  34. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I think that will work, Teresa. I've had to do similar a few times.
     
  35. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes I think my ideas are far fetched, glad to know someone else similar ideas.
     
  36. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
    Reason for edit: security reason being on a public forum
  37. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I am using a laptop.
     
  38. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I just took PMPS for Buddy and he was@340, earlier in the day his numbers were higher. Since Buddy had surgery I have tried to give 3u, but I do not know if that is safe tonight. What do you think.
     
  39. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    After 3 u last night he was low this AM. Maybe try 2.5u tonight?
     
  40. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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  41. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I did get it to work finally after sending messages saying I could not.
    Thanks for the help again.
     
  42. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    There isn't a save option...I was using that term loosely. And I'm not able to do it for you because it would be done on your computer or laptop, specifically, which I don't have access to.

    I don't have my laptop on right now but try this:
    Open the SS from within google drive
    In the toolbar for your internet explorer, click on "tools" and select "save to my favorites" or something along that line that should then put a link for his SS in the toolbar. If you right click on it, you can rename it to "Buddy's SS".

    Let me know if that doesn't work.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2017
    Reason for edit: removed personal information
  43. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I did get it to work. Thank you
     
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  44. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Awesome! You're welcome!
     
  45. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I took Buddy's PMPS and it was @290, I was wondering if anyone had any ideas what u would be right for Buddy. Most of the time his BG is higher, 4hrs ago it was 355 and now 4hrs later it is 290. I thought the closer to injection time the higher the number.
     
  46. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    That is interesting that he's gone down some. I'd do a quick re-check to be sure the number was right and see if it's moved at all. Are you going to be around to check on him tonight?
     
  47. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Looks like he's been bouncing the last 2 days and it's beginning to stop. If you can monitor this evening you could try 3 u again. If that makes you uncomfortable, try 2.75 u.
     
  48. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I will be here, hopefully sleeping some. I always set my clock and get up and check on him.
     
  49. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Hahaha I understand the hope of getting some sleep! I think Kris's suggestion is a good one. 3 units if you feel comfortable or 2.75 if you don't.
     
  50. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I had wondered all day about his numbers not coming down much and when I took a BG reading it was lower than anytime today. How can you tell he has been bouncing.
     
  51. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I guess it is true that great minds think alike. Thank you, for your reply
     
  52. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, for the reply
     
  53. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    You look for several cycles of elevated numbers after that same dose gave you some very good numbers. That's what has happened to Buddy. The lower PS number tonight suggests that the bouncing is stopping.
     
  54. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    This morning @8:00 Buddy was @50, starting feeding FF grilled with gravy and he is now at 145. Does anyone have a suggestion on what I might do next.
     
  55. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    How long is it since you got that 50? You could wait another 20 minutes or so and test again. If he gets to 200-ish, you can give a reduced dose but you need data. He stopped bouncing.
     
  56. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Would this be a part of bouncing, how do handle this.
     
  57. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I got the 50 around 40 min. ago, then I feed him FF grilled with gravy and he came up to 145. I am going to check him again right now. What would you consider a reduced dose.
     
  58. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Bouncing makes dosing a lot trickier. There are no hard and fast rules, only knowledge of your kitty's responses from a lot of data on your SS. This is something new for Buddy so you have to figure it out as you go along. The guiding principle always has to be doing what will keep him safe while giving insulin if at all possible.

    We're experimenting here: if he gets to 200, try giving him 1 u. That should be low enough. Do some testing at +2, +3, etc. to see where's he's headed. Whatever data you get today in this situation is something you can refer to later on.
     
  59. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Just a few minute ago I took reading @8:50 and he was @151. Last night he was @290 and I gave him 2.5 u. Do you think that dosage was too large, or is this a part of bouncing. He has ate 1 can of RC 3oz and part of a can of FF grilled with gravy 3oz so far this morning. All of this drives me crazier than usual.
     
  60. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Kris, I don't know what we would do without you, you are so much help to us.
     
  61. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    His BG is staying close to the same number and it might be because of the food. If you're now over an hour past his usual shot time I think it might be best to no give him a shot this AM. He'll be high tonight but you'll get him back. He'll probably need to go down in dose after this green.

    Thanks, Teresa! I learned a lot from Teasel's crazy responses.
     
  62. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    At 9:07 he was @149, so I am feeding him more RC wet, he is more than happy to eat more.
     
  63. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    OK. No shot this AM. You don't need to do a lot of testing through today unless you want some mid cycle numbers to see how fast his BG rises - totally optional. He'll be high tonight but that's OK - no high BG panicking allowed! ;)
     
  64. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    When you say go down on the dose, do you mean his usual of 3u, or from his dose after PMPS reading last night.
     
  65. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Down from the 2.5 u that got him here this AM. It's a judgment call. Let's wait to see where he is tonight.

    BTW - you accidentally put Buddy's AM number in the dose column. If you could move it to the PS column and put "NS" in the dose column that would be great.
     
  66. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I will correct, I just took reading he is @166 took 10:07.
     
  67. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    He's staying fairly level and without insulin he won't nose dive. You can test less and give his ears a break, Teresa.
     
  68. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Buddy will appreciate you telling me this.
     
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  69. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I will try to test Buddy a little earlier tonight, so that I can get some insulin in him. I have to run out, hopefully I can get back before long.
     
  70. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Kris, I just too a reading & Buddy is 521, is there anything I can do right now instead of waiting till tonight.
     
  71. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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  72. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Huge bounce from the 50. It better to wait and dose 1 hour early tonight so you don't mess up your schedule. A few hours of being high won't hurt him.
     
  73. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Kris, I just took a reading and Buddy is at 521, is there anything I can do now,
    Is it safe for me to go out, or feed him. I will try to shoot around 6:00 p.m., could he pass out from such high numbers. Do you have any ideas on a u to give him.
    Sorry, I know that I don't have enough experience to keep from getting scared, I have heard people talking about other people passing out, or going into a coma with high numbers.
     
  74. Pati

    Pati Member

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    Teresa, no need to be scared. As Kris said he is starting to bounce from that lovely green number this morning and the no shot. She predicted this morning it was going to happen. If you would normally feed him, go ahead. But no need to feed him just because of the number. Go ahead and run your errand. Update your spreadsheet when you get back so Kris can advise you on tonight's dose.
     
  75. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    No, a high number shouldn't be a big issue for just a few hours. You can shoot early, as long as it doesn't mess up your schedule.

    A big bounce! But a lovely low number.
     
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  76. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    You can go out. If he's hungry give him a snack.

    Cats tolerate high blood glucose better than dogs and people. The high numbers become a problem if he's high all the time for several days and also isn't eating well, is dehydrated or has an infection. I think you've tested his urine for ketones before, right? You can try a ketone test later - it's the best indicator if he's in trouble.
     
  77. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I know she predicted it would happen, guess I wasn't expecting it this early in the day. He ate some boiled chicken breast, that should not raise his numbers a lot.
    He was wanting to eat, but he is eating RC wet, his amount he can eat a day is limited.
     
  78. Pati

    Pati Member

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    It might help you to have an idea of the goal now with Buddy. You'll be working to find the just right amount of insulin to give Buddy a shootable number both am and pm. For example tonight's dose will be a reflection of his current BG at PMPS but just as importantly how much he was given last night that resulted in him having a too low to shoot number this morning.
     
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  79. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    The low numbers scare me, but so do the high numbers.
     
  80. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I did test his ketones yesterday and they were alright. He is eating well, he just ate some boiled chicken breast. Buddy likes cat food better than people food. He has been running around and playing. His numbers are crazy, hopefully when I know all these things I will not get upset. I got off schedule several days ago because of low numbers and shot late, maybe I can do an earlier shoot tonight. I appreciate your patience.
     
  81. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    It's all scary until you have tons of data to look at and do some (safe) experimenting, Teresa. Here's a breakdown of what 's happened and what I think is going on:
    • Buddy had 4 days of mostly high numbers after the greens on 02/10. When doses that are similar or the same give greens one day and then only pinks and yellows afterward, that's usually bouncing.
    • You had a string of yellows after a yellows PMPS. The lack of pink suggested that the bounce was stopping and that means Buddy was ready to respond to insulin again - and he did.
    • He dropped very low this AM. Why? Bouncing is a protective process whereby the kitty's body gets glucose from the liver where it's stored in another form and puts it into the bloodstream to elevate BG. This is his own body's protection against hypo. Problem is, that storehouse in the liver can get emptied out and that leaves him without the ability to prop up his own BG. So - when you gave him insulin last night he used the last bit of his stores to give you yellows and the tank was empty by this AM.
    • His body regenerates these stores quite quickly from food he eats, etc. so that when he called on that protective process again today after the 50, he was able to send his BG zooming up again.
    I've given you a super simple explanation of what are complex regulatory processes but that's it in a nutshell. Some kitties have very itchy trigger fingers in this area - the bouncy ones - and some don't.
     
  82. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    No problem, Teresa. Buddy has been through a lot and so have you. He's also a bouncy boy so that complicates things. I'm glad he's doing so well post surgery. Have you considered putting his picture in the box beside your posts?
     
  83. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I think his surgery is doing better than me or his numbers. He seems to be feeling better than he has for a long time, now if we can figure out the correct dose for him, he would be great. I do not have a smart phone to take pictures with, but my daughter does and she told me she would take a picture of Buddy and put it in the box. Buddy is very handsome, he is a true blonde beauty with short to medium length hair. He has several places where hair is shaved off. From the front he reminds me of a French Poodle, because of the way his leg has hair shaved off of it, he also has hair shaved off his neck on one side. He looks like someone with clippers was mad at him.
     
  84. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I am going to print this out so I will have it. I have no idea what to shoot tonight, do I go by his numbers tonight, or the dose he had last night that made all of this take place (must have been too much insulin).
     
  85. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    You have to wait to see where he is tonight and look at that in conjunction with yesterday and this AM. It's never based on just one number. Will you be dosing an hour early?

    Sounds like Buddy is a very handsome boy!
     
  86. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea whether I should shoot from today's PMPS #, or whether to shoot with a number because what I gave last night was too much.
     
  87. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    As I said above, let's wait until you have the PMPS test done, Teresa. No need to worry about the dose right now. :)
     
  88. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    A new thread would be nice. ;)
     
  89. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    I am going to try to dose early (an hour early) if possible, unless something should come up. Buddy is also a very good cat, no problem to pill, he does not like his ears poked though. One of the vets said she thought he was satisfied with being there, he did not act like the other cats around him. Kris, I do not know how I could dose on today's numbers if they are anything like the one I got earlier. Evidently 2.5u last night was too much. I looked at his SS and there was 3u, 2.5, & 1.5, guess I could take an average (not really). If I was going on my own I would probably shoot 2u for 3 times, unless that was too much. Really I do not know and I do not want to hurt Buddy.
     
  90. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    No sooner said than done. I tried to print screen where you explained bouncing but it will not work, now I need to figure out something about this.
     
  91. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry, Teresa. I wouldn't suggest a dose that I thought was too high. We can take every precaution but, unfortunately, they can surprise us. Then we have to use the tools we have to keep them safe - testing, giving high carb food, etc.
     
  92. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

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    Kris, I am sure you would not suggest a dose that was too high. I would be lost if it were not for you.
     
  93. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Look at Buddy dropping low this morning! It's nerve-wracking, but this is a good thing!
     
  94. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    I don't understand, how is that a good thing. He did not get any insulin this morning, so he was up to 517 at PMPS. Both of these scare me, but he was running around the house playing and wanting to eat.
     
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