Bupe info, safety, dose, worries; choking cat first aid

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Lois and Java, Mar 4, 2017.

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  1. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    I picked up some bupe from the vet that today for Javas ouchy neuropathic hindquarters. Vet agreed about use of it for this pain and prescribed .05 milliliters bid. The solution is .06 mg/ml.

    I gave Java a dose per vet Rx an hour ago and suddenly am filled with dread. What if he prescribed too much, the way he did when he sent me home with PZI and syringes and Rx for 2 U bid. It's too late, I gave it to him. He seems okay, he's breathing okay, he's sleeping on his pillow as usual.

    I know I do this, get really worried and fearful. I'm terrified. I wish I'd asked this question before I gave it to him. I asked about bupe in general in PZI and Kris and teasel said it could make him dopey. Edit, and need less because he's elderly.

    Does anybody have any experience giving their cat this medicine and did it all work out okay? I'm going to go test his BG right now, it's time, and will post it on SS.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
  2. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    My Neko was on bupe twice daily for almost three years for her arthritis. She was on a larger dose and did just fine. The bupe dose is determined by weight of cat but is a wide range. My other cat, about the same weight, has has bupe a few times, but only needs a much smaller dose. The first time he had too much, he was walking like a drunken sailor. Next dose I reduced and he was fine.
     
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  3. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    Steph in PZI found an article on bupe that gave dosage, this was at the low end of dose. He's staring.... Took him to litter, doesn't need it, walked back okay.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
  4. Julie and Eleanor (GA)

    Julie and Eleanor (GA) Well-Known Member

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    My Eleanor gets really dopey on her full dose so I just give her half and she's fine. I have given a much higher prescribed dose to my other cats. A lot of the people here give Bupe to their cats and they all seem to be fine with it.
    I worry about things too, especially medications. The first time my cat was prescribed Bupe I did a lot of Googling and reading, I also gave a smaller dose than prescribed, when I saw that nothing terrible happened, I went on to give the full dose. :)
     
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  5. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    I should have done some Googling and reading but I went from, this is a good idea for pain relief, to full panic an hour later. Thank you so much here and in PZI for responding. I would have gone to the emergency vet to talk to somebody shortly. I'm not so anxious that I have tunnel vision now, and Java seems dopey and staring but he ate some food and could walk from one end of the house to the other. He sleeps next to me so I can check on him easily when I'm awake. Sounds like I don't need to worry that he'll stop breathing from this.
    Edit, changed thread line to less panicked one.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
  6. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Hey, Lois, all that yoga is supposed to teach you calm and mindfulness, isn't it? ;) That aside, I'm glad you're trying the bupe for Java's pain. It's very effective but you do have to dose according to what the individual kitty can tolerate. When Teasel had it for cystitis, the first (full) dose left him staring into space with dilated pupils. Otherwise he was fine but I reduced his next dose.
     
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  7. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    That's what Java was doing! Sitting and staring with dilated pupils.
    I wish, I can go from completely calm to like a switch flipping into a total panic over him. At least the day to day has gotten better, thanks to you and the spreadsheet and the advice here!
     
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  8. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Noah has been on transdermal BUPE for 2 months now, before that it was oral. For now just watch Java walk; a nice steady walk, even if it's slower than usual, is better than staggering. Let him try a few stairs, both up and down (different brain functions) or up and off the sofa or bed. If he looks really doped up you don't want him vomiting while unconscious so watch his food and water intake. If he's sleeping give him a little nudge to make sure he's not completely out of it. Humans understand when they get stoned but it's no fun when you don't understand what's going on. Does anyone know what to do with a choking cat? This should be something we all know for future reference.
     
  9. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    @Noah & me You can give a cat (and other animals) the Heimlich maneuver if they are choking.
     
  10. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    That freaks me out. I know it's a different process for human babies, is there a video for this. Frankly I'm surprised I've never heard of a cat choking on food. Do they have some built in defense or are they just not as stupid as humans at an all you can slobber restaurant? We have one cat that can do the Hind-Lick maneuver but I think that's something else. Oh come on, you had to know that was coming!
     
  11. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    LOL!

    Best quality one I found:
     
  12. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Thank you very much, that bookmark is now a shortcut on my monitor. I used the Watch on YouTube option and found one of my all time happy-ending tear jerkers. This is not CGI, nothing fake about it, just the tinkly piano music. I asked some big burly firemen about this and they said most fire departments now carry this equipment. You'll HAVE TO WATCH THE VIDEO to see what I mean. Get your hankies out and remember, HAPPY ENDING!!!

    And if you want your day to be really happy,

    That's a lot better than those stupid "Cat falls into aquarium" videos where you wonder why someone can't put the camera down for 5 seconds. Everyone have a great day.
     
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  13. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    Those videos are aweseome!
    When I was a kid, one of the families in the neighborhood had gotten a duck for Easter. The duck was left out on a night when there was a sudden freeze (East Coast). In the morning, the dad saw the duck and thought, I can't leave this dead duck out for the kids to find, so wrapped the body up in a rag or something and put it in the garbage can, which was in the sun. When the kids came out an hour or so later, they were perplexed about why the duck was quacking inside the garbage can.
     
  14. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    The vet staff said they'd have the vet call me before they closed up for the day but apparently they forgot. I'm not sure if I'll give it to him again today or this weekend. I may wait until Monday.
    I wanted to help withe painful looking neuropathy. Java's getting injectable B12 (methyl) right now but I'm ordering Zobaline to start him on oral B12 when I run out of the filled syringes in a month.
    Edit - vet on phone!
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
  15. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    BUPE is an opioid, not something to start and stop with. If he's only just started he'll be okay. Noah is on long term, for a very good reason, so my cat is now a drug addict. Withdrawal can be painful for a cat.
     
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  16. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    I changed the thread title to reflect the choking cat info. And I'm back with Bupe questions.

    First, the vet did call. Vet said yes cut it back, yes humans say neuropathy feels like needles in the feet, possibly/probable discomfort to cat, bupe can help. Miralax not essential if having bupe. That was about it.Then I had run out for a couple of hours

    Here's the thing now. Java has hooded eyes, they are not obvious, so partly his behaviour - he's not sleeping as usual, he's more restless than his usual sleep in one place, changing positions very so often. But his pupils are still huge, gigantic. I just noticed it, how big they are still. Lily, the 5 year old's, are not. I wish I'd known this when I talked to the vet. Java's eating okay, his BG is okay. Slight restlessness - not holding his position on his pillow and letting Lily have it. Huge pupils. Trust in his resilience and wait it out?

    He's due for Ringer's solution, 125 ml SubQ today. I was thinking a) the Ringers will help flush things out of his system, or b) don't stick him with more things, leave him alone. He tolerates the Ringers well. Or c) should I take him to the emergency vet?
     
  17. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    Noah and me I hope you are on and can read and respond to what I just posted. Thanks.
     
  18. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    I'm calling the vet and hoping he'll call me back. The answering service is checking to see if he can talk to me.
    edit, sorry to be so annoying / chicken little / hyper / I hope it's not a horrible thing.
     
  19. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    The huge pupils are really totally normal

    One of the side effects of all opiates is dilated pupils....that's one of the ways cops know you're on something when they pull you over
     
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  20. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    This long after the dose though? It was 20 hours ago.
    Edit, They react by contracting a little if I shine a light over them.
    He's due for Ringers anyway, go ahead and do it? That's the way I'm leaning but now I'm hper worried again and feeling guilty for not noticing it earlier so I could ask the vet 6 hours ago.
     
  21. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it can last quite a long time

    You might want to try shining a bright light in his eyes....see if they constrict
     
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  22. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    I was reading something about bupe and it said effects can have a duration of 24-37 hours.
     
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  23. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    They react by contracting a little if I shine a light over them.
    OMG I can't believe I forget that the Internet exists for searches when I get panicked. Again. THANK YOU.

    http://www.petplace.com/article/drug-library/library/prescription/buprenorphine-buprenex says this though ---
    • Buprenorphine is 30 times as potent as morphine and does not result in the negative gastrointestinal effects typically associated with morphine.
    • Buprenorphine is rapidly absorbed after injection and the effects are usually felt within 15 to 30 minutes, lasting about 8 hours.
     
  24. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    :bighug: I'm a research nerd :bookworm::bookworm::bookworm:

    Effects are felt up to 8 hours but the duration of action (in the system) can be 24-37 hours, so might be why Java's eyes are still dilated.
     
  25. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    Same site
    • The drug should be avoided in animals with kidney disease, underactive thyroid gland and Addison's disease.
    • Buprenorphine should be used with caution in animals with head trauma, compromised cardiovascular function and geriatric or severely debilitated animals.
    • The most common side effect of buprenorphine is sedation. Other side effects may include a drop in blood pressure, high heart rate, changes in body temperature (high or low), anorexia and/or hyperactivity.
    • Due to a high index of safety, overdose is rare.
     
  26. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    I'm grateful for your research! We cross posted also. Java's geriatric, and has slightly impaired kidney function.
    This is good / calming, both of these:
    > Effects are felt up to 8 hours but the duration of action (in the system) can be 24-37 hours
    > Due to a high index of safety, overdose is rare.
    I'm not sure what they mean by a high index of safety, but I'll take it.
    Maybe I'll wait until tomorrow to run Ringers through him. Or do it now to help him recover?
     
  27. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Ringers is just the SubQ fluids right? For hydration?
     
  28. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    Yes, subQ fluids. His Precision PSL test was high (all data at the Labs tab on his SS) indicating possible pancreatitis. The treatment is sufficient food intake (not a problem) and subQ fluids. He'll get retested in about a month. He also has values that indicate low level kidney disfunction - subQ fluids help with that. (I think that BUN and Creatinine). His kidney values are higher than normal but haven't done any dramatic spiking in the four years of watching and testing.
    He's due for 125 ml for the possible pancreatitis / Precision PSL test anyway, today, so I could do it now, or wait until tomorrow. He's eating, peeing, pooping, walking, drinking normally .... but he has anime eyes and it worried me very much.
    Edit: The info Yong found about duration in the body resolved it for me.
     
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  29. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to everyone who answered all the questions. I didn't mean to scare the crap out of anyone. Every cat is different and will react differently depending on a whole bunch of other health issues. Noah needs major dental work but he has an enlarged heart and cardiomyopathy so he has a 90% chance of NOT surviving any surgery. He's old, the last of a family of six and I do not want him to spend his remaining time in and out of a vets office. He's had enough ultrasounds, radiation, poking and prodding to last a lifetime, I'd rather he be pain free in his basket than come home in an urn. We already have thirteen urns, nine in the last four years.
    Lois and Java, please check in with us tomorrow so we know everything's okay.
     
  30. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    I'm here! He seems normal / okay except for the anime eyes. Hungrier for FF than usual. BG at PMPS was higher than normal prob as a result of FF. Testing again shortly.
    I'm learning about myself via Java's health issues - I get freaked out easily when it comes to his health!
     
  31. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    This a key insight, Lois, and I'm not being facetious. When you're more aware of your own reactions you can better teach yourself more beneficial ways to respond.
     
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  32. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Truer words... We read way too much into meows and funny looks and then miss the obvious. My wife always knows when something is wrong. I'll say "It's just a 24 hour bug", an hour later the vet will tell us we got there just in time. And there's the other thing I keep saying, you have to take care of yourself if you want to take care of your pets. If people from 100 years ago saw what we do now they'd think we were all nuts. That's okay, everyone already knows I'm a little out there!
     
  33. Lois and Java

    Lois and Java Member

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    Pupils normal this morning. His BG is high, partly AT reads 30-50 points higher than HS meter, partly eating a lot of FF.
    Right now, being aware of how I go from completely calm and fine to 100 mph full blown second guessing fearful panic doesn't stop it. What have I done, is he okay, does this (symptom) mean something that could be fatal if I don't act right now, omg what do I do, how do I find out, argh!
     
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