CBD Question + Good evening, Dear FDMB/Lantus Family!

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by Joanne&TinySole, Jun 18, 2020.

  1. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    It's been a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG time since I've been here: 12/2019, when Tiny Sole graduated OTJ and has been doing FANTASTIC ever since, all because of the love and support from the Lantus forum.
    I'll be forever grateful for all the help I received.

    I was wondering if anyone could recommend a Hemp / CBD supplement for adult cats.
    My vet wants to put one of our four cats on Prozac, and I'm not feeling that, so thought I'd turn to the Cat Hive here on the forums.

    @Bobbie And Bubba , you will remember us, and a few others...this is the BEST forum in the world for those of us with furbabies who need help. Sending everyone love! XOXO, Joanne and Tiny So
     
  2. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Hi Joanne - good to hear from you and get a Tiny update. You might want to add CBD? to you subject line. Trying to remember who besides @JoyBee&Ravan uses it and posts daily. I know there are others.
     
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  3. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Thank you for the reminder on the subject line, Wendy! I do hope you are doing well.
    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  4. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
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  5. Malachai

    Malachai New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2017
    Hi Joanne, we use one called Super Snouts. Phyto 150. Raw USA Organic. Can be used for dogs or cats, as dosage is based on weight in pounds. It comes in different strengths. Just a tiny amount [1/4 dropper] works wonders on Malachai’s joint issues and seems to help his general mood on the tough days. Best of luck to you!
     
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  6. AliceMeowliss&Cassandra

    AliceMeowliss&Cassandra Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2019
    I just got super interested and dug up some research...! :)

    “More interestingly, some evidence points to the potential for whole plant-derived CBD being more effective than synthesized or highly purified CBD, suggesting that other cannabinoids or terpenes may have additive or synergistic effects with CBD [9].”

    This is something I personally agree with and have experienced—positive effects for my own pain treatment seem to be more synergistic. I receive more benefits when I used a broader spectrum.

    Adverse reactions in this study:

    “Cats were observed for signs of adverse events twice a day for the 12-week study for a total of 1344 observation periods. The main adverse effects noted included licking and head shaking, which were observed 476 (35.4%) and 339 (25.2%) times, respectively. Other adverse events noted were pacing (n = 150, 11.1%), chomping/chewing (n = 88, 6.5%), gagging (n = 29, 2.1%), vomiting food, bile, or hairballs (n = 15, 1.1%), salivating, drooling, or foaming (n = 16, 1.2%), jumping (n = 6, 0.45%), being uncooperative (n = 5, 0.4%), and grimacing (n = 5, 0.4%).”

    Absorption and dosing findings:

    “Overall, the absorption kinetics showed maximal serum concentration are approximately one-fifth of what was observed in the dogs (mean Cmax of 43 ng/mL) with a longer retention time at 3.5 h and a half-life of 2.4 h. It is entirely possible that we missed the peak Cmax since a 2 h time point was not collected in this cohort due to blood collection times being limited by the physical size of cats, but if absorption is similar to dogs the serum concentrations would have been similar at 2 h [11,13]. These findings suggest that the absorption of CBD in the fish oil base is less than in dogs using plant oil bases, hence larger doses may be necessary for pharmacological effects. This information is important for feline practitioners that are considering the use of CBD products in cats for anxiety, arthritis, house soiling, seizure activity, or neoplasia, which are all reported as maladies where owners are using CBD products [1].”

    In conclusion:

    “...hemp-based CBD appears to be relatively safe in healthy populations of dogs and cats, and dogs appear to absorb CBD better than cats. The lack of serum chemistry alterations in both species is comforting as it relates to preliminary toxicity findings; however, use of CBD-rich hemp products requires monitoring of liver enzyme values. Continued clinical follow up is essential in those patients undergoing long-term use with naturally occurring disease who may be on other treatments for their ailments. Further studies are warranted to determine safety in dogs and cats. Studies should also examine drug interactions in patients on multiple medications, especially in those that are highly metabolized by the hepatic cytochrome p450 system.”

    Hope this is helpful to you or someone who comes across it. :)

    Source: NIH
    Animals (Basel). 2019 Oct; 9(10): 832.
    Published online 2019 Oct 19. doi: 10.3390/ani9100832
    PMCID: PMC6826847
    PMID: 31635105
     
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  7. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Hi Cassandra! I invested in Paws CBD Oil for pets and gave it to Luci for a while...we didn't have any improvement or changes in her blood glucose readings...or anything else for that matter. I finally stopped giving it to her...

    I hope JoyBee will respond -she seems to have good results with it.

    Great to hear from you! I hope you and Tiny Sole are doing well! :)
     
  8. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Thanks, Lizzie! I send everyone my love!
     
  9. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Hi Sue! How's that Luci doing?! I'm doing ok and that Tiny Sole is just wonderful! Still has that paw issue, but no steroids for her. I think I may try some CBD with her as well - she limps a bit, so I figure the CBD can't hurt.
     
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  10. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Thank you, Malachai! Good to know. I'll go have a look at that brand - I was hoping for an organic USA product. XO
     
  11. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Good to know, Alice. The more we know the better we can take care of our furbabies! Thank you.
     
  12. Jill & Scooter

    Jill & Scooter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Hi Joanne! Glad to hear Tiny is doing well. I use Charlotte’s Web CBD (recommended by @JoyBee&Ravan) for my DH and my drooler for arthritis pain. It seems to help them both. I also gave it to Scooter some for appy/nausea.
     
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  13. Si am cat mom

    Si am cat mom Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2019
    We use the Ellevet CBD- Hemp oil. They actually studied it on cats and not just dogs, so I felt comfortable with it.
     
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  14. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    Interesting that this came up and I got a tag. I was reading through the thread in the Think Tank just yesterday.

    For Gizmo I used Canna Companion (developed by Veterinarians) capsules. I used 1/2 capsule mixed with food AM/PM. I just purchased the oil for Frankie in the hopes to improve some behavior issues. He did NOT like it mixed with food so will have to just use the dispenser and just give it directly in his cheek pouch. The dose for the oil 0.1 mil so it is a very tiny amount. I haven't given him any yet - just got it about a week ago.

    Here is the link to the long thread on CBD in the think tank.

    Here is the link to the company I source the CBD from. They have free shipping on orders placed before 07/01.


    @Joanne&TinySole why does the vet want to put the kitty on Prozac? As I said, I have one with behavior issues too so might have another suggestion.
     
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  15. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Hi Joanne,I'm happy to hear Tiny Sole is doing so good! I still use Charlotte's Web CBD oil for both my cats. I only give 5 drops in a bit of water with a feeding syringe. My vet also recommended Ellevet which has been tested on cats. I find either one is very good.

    One of my cats had oral cancer & I swear it kept her pain free & enjoying her life till the day she died. It also kept her eating good. You didn't say what's wrong with your kitty that the Vet want to use prozac?

    I try not to use pharmaceuticals & I'm always very conservative with the herbal meds & CBD. I started out with only 2 drops & gradually increased to 5.

    Nice to hear from you & best of luck with your kitty! :)
     
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  16. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Hi, Jill!! Thanks for the input!
    The suggestions are great - I'll start my research!
    XOXO
     
  17. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Good to know, Lizzie!
    Its so helpful to know what has worked for other furkids. I'll start reading the links you sent - THANK YOU!

    Vet wants Cookie on Prozac for anxiety. She is a 16lb Tuxedo cat who would eat constantly if we let her. Why she is overweight abd so hungry all the time is a mystery. Two vets said she has hyperthyroidism - slight elevation in her tests...I find that hard to believe. Thankfully she is not diabetic. She eats Weruva and Soulistic pouch food and has had digestive issues since 2018 - all tests and sonograms were inconclusive for pancreatitis, despite the (past) vomiting and lack of appetite. She's overweight, so cannot groom her back end, so we keep her shiny clean! :smuggrin: She has been chewing a bald spot on her chest and they think it is anxiety. I think it could be she has a stomach/esophagus issue, or because she can't clean herself. She IS skittish and jumps at any little sound, but is calm and purrs up a storm when she sits with me in the evening and I rub her belly.

    ...I've no clue what is going on, so thought I'd try CBD to see if it would help.

    Any thoughts?
     
  18. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Hi Joy!!!
    Thank you for your input! I'll be looking into CharlottesWeb and Ellevet. Is there a particular milligram on the bottle that you prefer? 125 or 250mg? I'll definitely start low and slow - 1 to 2 drops - and work up to the recommended dose, but I m not sure of which starting milligram to use.

    I left an explanation directly above to why vet wants her on Prozac, but can copy/paste if necessary.

    I appreciate your, and everyone's responses and assistance more than you know. I have tremendous respect and gratitude for the members of the forum.

    XOXO
     
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  19. Si am cat mom

    Si am cat mom Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2019
    Ellevet recommended 4 drops, but when we tried that ...my cat slept ALL day and was just a little lump :) :cool:
    So, I do 3 drops in the AM and 2 drops at night. The 3 drops during the day tends to help control his hyperesthesia - which makes his skin extra twitchy so he grooms too much and runs around like something is on him sometimes. At night, it seems to bother him less so I do the lower amount.
    I'm not a fan of prozac for cats- diabetic especially since I have seen it affect their appetitie but ECID.
     
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  20. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Thanks, Lizzie, Do you use capsules to get it in, or just use the dropper in the cheek? I'm concerned about bitter taste and the never-ending foaming/drooling!
    :nailbiting:
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
  21. Si am cat mom

    Si am cat mom Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2019
    Ellevet sends capsules - I didn't use them. I mixed the drops in with a highly desirable food a first and then transitioned to his regular food (pate).
    He doesn't care, seems to mind his omega 3 more even though the CBD/hemp has a very woodsy, strong smell.
     
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  22. LizzieInTexas

    LizzieInTexas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    Frankie chews. On everything (rubber/plastic). He is playfully aggressive to the point he causes bleeding. I have spent over $500 on power cords and replacing stuff he has destroyed and materials to "chew" proof the house. His nick name is 'mouth' :woot:

    He sleeps like the dead but body twitches the entire time.

    I have owned cats my entire life and have never had one like this one. Lol.

    He is just over a year old (and a lean 15#'s) and we have had him since he was about 4 weeks old. It doesn't seem he is growing out of the behavior.

    Six months ago, out of desperation, I contacted an Animal Communicator. She suggested Hyland's Homeopathic Calms Forte. Vet had no issues with It stating there was nothing in It that was harmful. It has helped. I have messed around with the dose and it seems 1/2 tab 2x/day (crushed and added to his food) is his sweet spot. I have given up to 1 tab 2x/day but it made him too sleepy and he seemed doped up. It hasn't cured him, but it has made him manageable.

    I will be adding the CBD to see if that helps any also. I have not ruled out Prozac as an option but didn't want to give it to him while he was so young and growing.
     
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  23. BubbasMama

    BubbasMama New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2020
    HI There!
    My 16 year old, arthritic cat Bubba and I have been very happy with www.holistapet.com cat treats. They have a human counterpart https://cheefbotanicals.com/. I did a TON of research and these guys are great. Organic, 3rd party testing nothing artificial. Very good quality product and they are in the mid-range-cheaper. They always have sales- NEVER PAY FULL PRICE. Get on their mailing list. They always have sales and special offer. Every 3 or 4 moths they have a buy one or two get one free. They have a package deal of the oil and the treats -which was my first purchase with them. Bubba liked the treats better than the oin on his food. My brother's cat was the opposite. So I would try that combo purchase they offer first.

    They helped with Bubba's walking. You can tell he was more comfortable. His gait was more at easy and he is defiantly feeling better. MOre chill when I give him a few about 45 mintues before we go to the vet.

    That is what I have to offer on the subject- oh, and you cant over does them either.
     
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  24. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Wait, what's that you say?!! ..."a highly desirable food"...???!!! you mean to say that you found magic food, right??!! Spill the beans, please - I could use some of that, too! I have the pickiest eaters, with the exception of Tiny Solé!
    :D
     
  25. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    WOW! That's great news!! I'll give anything a try, so I appreciate the thoughtful and informative response - THANK YOU!

    Therein lies the value of this forum...so many people with different experiences and info to help point other cat parents in a good direction! :bighug::kiss:
     
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  26. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Tiny had some obsessive behaviors - not as bad as Frankie's, though. Vet put her on Paxil, which I read in a study,, years and years later, that it can cause diabetes! Now, what came first? The diabetes causing the obsessive behavior or the Paxil causing the diabetes and the obsessive behavior...dunno. I just don't want to risk a side effect, which is why I'm interested in CBD, or a homeopathic supplement.

    I'll definitely check out your suggestions! I've got a lot of resources and will do my homework! I'm so appreciative of everyone's comments!

    XOXO
     
  27. thebigfuzz

    thebigfuzz Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2012
    Hi!

    We give our guy 'yappetizers anxiety and pain', which is coconut oil and full spectrum Hemp terpines (CBD).

    Hope the research goes well!
     
  28. Si am cat mom

    Si am cat mom Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2019

    No magic food- he just loves the Tiki Cat Mousses, so used that for the first month. I keep it on hand for emergencies- that and baby food. He'll tolerate just about anything for those
     
  29. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Thanks, Tanya! I'm going to look into all of these suggestions - I'm up for any and everything to help my girl. She is having cystitis from the stress, so is also urinating where she shouldn't.
    I'm using Feliway, but it's not helping, so these suggestions are great!

    Be well!
    Joanne
     
  30. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Cookie is a MAJOR fussy eater, she'll eat Weruva and Soulistic, and some Hills prescription dry food. I thought maybe there was a secret formula food I didn't know about! ;-)

    XOXO
     
  31. Si am cat mom

    Si am cat mom Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2019

    A cat that will eat prescription food but no baby food.....never !:D
     
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  32. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Hi Tanya,
    Do you think I can purchase yappetizers in the US?
     
  33. thebigfuzz

    thebigfuzz Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2012
     

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