Out of curiosity this morning while doing the AMPS, I decided to compare the AT3 vs ReliOn. The AT3 read 114 and the ReliOn Premier Classic read 118. First, Wow - did not expect them to be so close and second, what does this mean exactly as far as his readings since I had read that human meters are around 1/3 or more lower than pet ones.
I’ve done this comparison as well but with the Diathrive meter. Very close. Been using it for years now since it’s way more cost effective than Alpha
Usually we have definitely found that the AT reads higher, but I have also seen people check and say that when the notice the largest difference between the two is in the lower (under 100) numbers.
There is no comparison between the two so please resist the urge to do that. In order to show members this, I did comparisons and they are on a tab on Gracie’s SS. You will see that there was a lot of variation between the two. This is very typical so just go by the meter you are using Any reason why you have not been giving insulin?
I looked at the SS and boy, there were some marked differences when you did it. I found it interesting that is was such a slight difference with the AT3 but also realize one time is not enough to count on. I have only been putting the ReliOn numbers on the spreadsheet since I changed meters. I was kind of going on that slight difference though in thinking what Charlie’s counts have been. Our vet had told us not to shoot him if his GR was under 125. Curiously, or maybe you can tell me, his readings have been going down without insulin - is that normal? He had not been nearly as active over the weekend and the beginning of the week but now is running around with our other cat again which makes us think he is feeling better.
Not sure why I am having a bit of a hard time but after a lot more thought last night and based on the experience of this group, I am feeling comfortable letting the advice here be more of a guiding ruler. Anyway, got Charlie back on the dose he was on.
I’m sorry I didn’t get back to you yesterday. If you use the “reply” button for a post someone makes, it will tag them. I’m very glad to see you shot this morning. Good job! Don’t worry. All members go through the decision of whether to follow the vet’s advice or consider what we are suggesting. I did! I had a vet tell me Gracie was in remission and I was killing her by giving her insulin even though she was on 1u of insulin and bouncing all over the place. I am so thankful for this group because when I even tried to reduce the dose, her BG shot up 200-300 until I took her dose back up. Vets see 125 as a normal BG and it is. But you can’t look at the PS in a vacuum. You have to know what the rest of the cycle looks like by spot testing. Even with PZ, experienced members here (doing MPM) shoot BGs 50 and above. Since you are doing SLGS, that BG becomes 90. You’ve shot in the low 100s with 1u so it shouldn’t be an issue for you to feel comfortable shooting down to 90. With SLGS, you will reduce the dose by 0.25u any time the BG falls below 90 (on a separate day) or if, after one week, his nadirs have been in the 90s then you reduce by 0.25u. That means you need those mid cycle tests and a before bed test at night, at least. You will follow those guidelines to work your way down to just a small amount of insulin and if he stays in mostly green numbers after a couple weeks on a drop, then he’s in remission and you can stop insulin. That’s a brief summary and I suggest you read the dosing methods closely. Ask questions. Sometimes the dose takes some tweaking up before it goes down but when you start getting some midcyle tests, we will know more. I will tell you that we have had members stop insulin at the point where Charlie is now. We always see them back here again with the kitty back on insulin. The best way to get to a longer lasting remission is to work the dose down slowly. And I must add the caveat that not all cats will go into remission or hold one when they do even when the CG follows the dosing method precisely. Our main goal is regulation and Charlie appears to be pretty well regulated right now. I am hoping he will get to remission but best to get there slowly.
Thank you for all of that!!! …and for your patience with me. Starting out on the Libre2, then AT3 and now on a meter where I don’t see $$ signs with every prick has been a challenge adjusting to each time along with the numbers being different. Your explanation is clear and males so much sense!!! I will become VERY familiar with the dosing methods. Thanks so much (I feel like a robot saying that so much but I truly am grateful)!
You are very welcome. Our main goal here is to give you the tools to help Charlie in the best way possible. We are always happy to answer questions and provide guidance/suggestions. But, there is also much information for the CG to read. The “stickys” at the top of this group are a great place to start but there is also a plethora of valuable info about FD and other cat issues on the Health FAQ. It’s worth a “spin” through there just to see all the valuable info.
Marje, your comments were SO timely. Charlie is at 98 this a.m. so we are shooting at the 1u and then I will get the counts thru the day and a couple tonight. Had it not been for your explanation, I know I would have been afraid to shoot.
Please feed him a snack at +2 (which has already passed but only by a short time) and test him as soon as you can.
It's going to be okay though. With your testing and feeding, you are in control and will keep Charlie safe. Don't feed too much all at once. A teaspoon will do.
So, my reasoning behind the MC is that it is very early in the cycle and we don't want him dropping below 50. We may even need to bump up the carbs a bit more. We should know depending on what your next test says. Remember to feed only a teaspoon at a time because you will probably be feeding him these snacks over a long period of time and we don't want him getting full and refusing to eat the little snacks. What percentage of carb is your medium carb? And what kind of high carb food and stuff do you have available?
gave him 3 fruitable cat treats and a Iams which would have totaled about 4 carbs. The fruitables have more carbs.
Okay. So I would give him another teaspoon of food, you can try just regular food if you want to or some of the medium carb food. Medium carb food is above ten percent carbs. I am not sure what that Iams is. I would have to look it up on a food chart and would have to know what flavor it is.
medium carb food is (10-17% carb) and high carb food (18% carb and over) Do you have honey or karo syrup on hand? Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers are high carb. These are usually easily found at local stores.
Okay. Well we don't want him dropping further. It's still very early in the cycle for these numbers. 8 percent for the Iams is still considered low carb. You can give him that or give something with more carbs (which we may be needing.) 10-17% carbs is medium carb.
[ 8% on the Iams is why I mixed in the 3 treats to try and boost it up a little. gave him 15 pieces of Hill’s prescription w/d food last. Will test again at the next hour mark. He is alert and still a tad feisty when it is pricking time. I will pick up some of the other food in case of this happening again tomorrow. And yes, do have both honey and Karo syrup.
Down to 45. Just rubbed honey on his gums and he is eating a small handful of the hill’s w/d dry. Followed that with a tsp of Hill’s script c/d wet in case it will get into his system faster. He is still alert and is sitting here grooming himself.
Oh good grief. Yes. The honey will act fairly quickly, but will also wear off quickly. I would have shot a reduced dose this morning based upon his lower preshot number, and when I saw that you had shot, I was worried mostly because we don't have a lot of recent data on how he would do with a green preshot and 1 unit. I see that you did shoot a low preshot before and he was green, but he stayed in the higher greens that day. Anyway, please test in 20 minutes.
Glad you were keeping an eye out!!! Yes, 20 minutes. For future, what would you recommend for a lower dose - reduce by .25, half, ? I sure won’t be doing a whole unit again.
So under SLGS, he has earned a reduction to .75 units. He earned that a while ago! And now he's gone lime ... so no question about it, he needs the reduced dose. I'll keep watching to see how things are going.
That's the honey talking. He may drop back down. Can you feed him a teaspoon of something. It's your call if you want to do Iams 8% or something else?
I actually gave him a tsp more of the higher carb Hill’s wet again right after I pricked. Test after an hour from the last or sooner?
I would test in 30 minutes to be sure. I'm glad you gave the higher carbs Hill's wet food. Which kind is it? You mentioned the w/d dry, but which wet?
The c/d. His “former” vet had him on the c/d dry and then moved him to w/d dry when he was first diagnosed in March. We had switched hi. To the c/d wet (ocean) as we began to learn how bad dry was and then, of course to low carb not long after that so we still have that in hand.
I see quite a few different C/D flavors on the food chart and all are over 20 percent carbs, so that's a good HC food to feed it he likes it. Most of them are 28% and some are 23%. Looks like the Ocean Fish is 23% good HC food.
https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf Do you have this food chart? It's a bit old and some of the newer foods aren't on it, but it's still a pretty good guideline. I have some other food charts that are geared more toward phosphorus levels (for kidney concerns) but they still have a lot of different foods on the. Which Weruva foods to you feed? I feed some of the BFF PLAY foods to my cats.
First, Charlie just read 77. He didn’t quite eat his last spoonful of Hill’s so he is finishing it up now. Still acting good - was just in the floor with our other cat when I scooped him up for the prick. Yes, long story short. First, they kept him an entire week, every day telling us he would come home the next day and then when he did come home, they had him on PZ but only once a day. His numbers were crazy. I would call and send numbers for the vet to look at and never get a response. We were beside ourselves. They had also slapped a Libre2 on him and it kept giving messages to wait 10 minutes over and over again and ended up failing completely after 10 days. They put another on the day before we had a new vet appt after I told them we couldn’t function without communication (free of charge) and it failed after 4 days. I grew to hate that thing b/c of our bad experience. When it did work, we mostly saw HI because it wouldn’t give a number as high as his GR were.
Okay. Since he's flattened out now, I feel better. I would wait an hour to test again, especially since he's finishing up his snack.
It sounds like your vet wasn't really up to speed on insulin dosing for diabetic cats. Maybe this works for dogs, but it sure doesn't for cats. Of course, dogs are really different. There's even a once a week insulin for dogs that I have read about. Anyway, they weren't even communicating with you, which is terrible. That must have been a very bad week.
She just started SLGS. She was going by her vet’s advice prior. Elaine…..great job today and now you see the importance of those midcycle tests. Charlie could have been doing this (maybe not as low) all along but eating to bring himself up. I actually think it was a good that you shot the 98. There isn’t much difference in that and what you’ve already been shooting and that’s not what dropped Charlie. He was just ready for a small decrease. Also great job @Suzanne & Darcy guiding her through to a safe surf. Good luck with the dose reduction!
Yes! What a nice long stretch of green. So good. He's not a really bouncy cat (a real blessing for you!) so I hope that he won't bounce, but maybe from the lime? Who knows. You're doing great!
Yes, the "rule of thumb" is to test for two hours after the last HC stuff was given to the cat. I'm not sure how long it has been for Charlie. But that's a safety measure to make sure that the cat doesn't drop back down. I'm not worried about this today in Charlie's case, but I would gather as much data as I could today during this cycle. If it has been two hours since the HC, you might want to stretch out the testing a little to give him a break. Although if you want a preview of your PMPS, you might check at +10 to get an idea of where he is.
It has now been 2 hours since he ate that last bit of HC. I had planned to test again but yes, would like to give him a little time, so +10 would be 5:30. If he acts like he has been recently, I would expect him to be near where he started the day, so it will be interesting to see if that holds true. If you think I should test between now and 5:30, let me know and I will.
Missed this earlier. Have some of the Chicken Frick a Zee right now Charlie will eat it when it is mixed in with other food. Had identified some others to order once done with that that I had identified from this chart. It was very helpful. He had crystals and was blocked about 9 years ago. Wish these food companies were better about listing carbs and phosphorus. Would make things a lot easier.
Didn’t see this until now. I was exhausted after the day. Doing spot checks on him today beginning in 15 mins.
