First post..newly diabetic cat

[Sock's mom]

Hello, my name is Kelsey. My senior cat, Socks, was diagnosed with diabetes about 3 weeks ago. We had taken in a stray kitten in September and Socks kept sneaking to the kittens dish and eating her dry kitten food and wet kitten food every chance she got. She has always been a big water drinker but after eating the kitten food she seemed to be drinking even more and excreting a large amount of urine a lot more often during the day, so i made an appt at the vet. Her BG at the vet was 569 and the fructosamine test also had high levels. I had to wait a few days for her Glargine to come in so I researched online and found your page. I went and bought a bunch of the Fancy Feast pates that were on the safe food chart on your page and started her on them but left her normal dry food out while she transitioned over the next week. I have 3 indoor cats total so i still have the dry food out for the other cats but have put a baby gate up last week to block her from getting to then hard food (She is arthritic and can't jump or climb). So i waited 2 weeks after getting my hands on the Glargine before I started her on it just so i could get her diet changed and get a few BG readings to see how her levels were without being on dry food. They seem to be so much lower than they had been so I'm really hopeful I can get her into remission. I gave Socks her first dose on 12/26 of 1.25u (she weighs 11 pounds) and after about 6 hours her BG had dropped from 260 to 56 and was still low that evening for her 2nd shot so I didnt give her another dose because I was scared. Yesterday i gave her 1u in the morning and took her BG several times during the day and it stayed above normal everytime. So I gave her another 1u at bedtime last night and this morning her BG was 71 so I skipped her dose again and a few hours later her BG was 67. I tested again 2 hours later and it was 100 and gradually increased over thr next few hours so she got 1u shot at 9 pm when her BG was 310. 2 hours later her BG is 348. Am I doing this right? I feel like her numbers are whacky and all over the place. She is eating about 3 cans per day and snacking on what she doesn't finish eating every few hours.i did also start her on probiotics because she has had diarrhea all week since cutting out the dry food completely. Today her poop was a lighter brownish grey color but still very soft and diarhea like. She acts great, same energy as usual, great temperament and hasnt lost any weight at all so that seems like a positive. Any tips I need nor advice on what I'm doing would be greatly appreciated. Am I overfeeding the canned food by letting her graze all day on what she isn't finishing? Is it normal for BG to go so low after starting insulin? Should I be concerned about her runny stools? Thank-you so much. I plan on charting all of my data but i have 5 kids and they're on xmas break so i haven't been able to get on the computer to learn how but i am testing her BG every 2-4 hours during the day and have written it all down. She's only had 3 insulin injections so far.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Hi and welcome to the forum Kelsey and Socks.
I’ll have a look at your post and answer shortly as soon as I’m finished feeding my cats/chickens/birds.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

It sounds like the swap over to a low carb diet has dropped the blood glucose (BG) and the dose of insulin you are giving is now too much.
And the diarrhoea is most likely caused by the swap over to the new food.
You could try giving some plain cooked mashed pumpkin mixed in with the food for the loose poops or you could give SBoulardii probiotics. With the pumpkin give 1/2 teaspoon a few times a day with the food. You can freeze any left pumpkin over and use later. If you don’t want to cook the pumpkin, you can buy canned pumpkin, just make sure you get plain pumpkin with nothing added.

It is fine to let her graze, in fact feeding a good meal and then a few snacks during the cycles is the best way for diabetic cats.
Do you have some higher carb food and honey or Karo in the house in case of very low numbers? If you don’t, please get asap.
Did the vet mention anything about ketones at diagnosis?
In regards to the BG being all over the place, that is because she is reacting to all the low BGs by bouncing. And after low numbers she can bounce up high for up to 3 days. This does not mean you need to increase the dose at all.
Bouncing is very common in newly diagnosed cats so don’t be concerned about that. Here is an explanation on bouncing from The Basics

• Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

We really need you to set up our spreadsheet and signature so that we can see some data and be able to help you. I know you are really busy at the moment so I am going to ask @Bandit's Mom if she could set up your spreadsheet and maybe the signature for you. She will contact you.
Information on spreadsheet and signature and hypo kit
HELP US HELP YOU
What type of meter are you using? A pet meter or a human meter?

Are you using the U100 3/10 ml, 30 or 31 gauge, 6 or 8 mm insulin syringes with 1/2 unit markings?
If you can answer all my questions…sorry there are a lot, but we need to gather information so we can help you… I will have an idea of a dose you might try moving forward. How long til the next dose is due?

 

[Sock's mom]

Thank you so much. I have canned pumpkin on hand so I will add that to her food. The vet didn't mention ketones and didnt check urine but i had some urine testing strips for humans at home and tested he urine and it was negative. Im assuming they would be accurate for cats? I am using a human meter that I bought on Amazon. It seems accurate, as I have tested myself and my husband to see what our sugars are to check the accuracy but im not well versed in diabetes so that probably doesn't mean much. The syringes I bought are u100 3/10 cc with half unit markings. 31 Guage, 8 mm length, ulti care vet rx brand. I don't feel like my vet was super knowledgeable about feline diabetes so I really appreciate the help. I gave her a dose of 1u of insulin about 8 am this morning with her breakfast. She woke me up meowing for food at her bowl and acted starved. Her BG was 202. At what number on her BG should I not give a dose of insulin? I did give it an hour earlier this morning than her 12 hour mark, is that generally safe? I have read through most of your information sheets on here so I did buy some gravy lickable treats and I have honey on hand. Do I only need to use those if she is symptomatic for a hypoglycemia crash? When her numbers were in the 50s she was following me biting my legs to tell me she was hungry but other than acting ravenous, she didn't have any other noticeable symptoms. Thank you again for the help. I will try to get on my laptop tonight and see if i can get the spreadsheet done.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Welcome to FDMB!

You have really done your homework and your instincts are on target! The link in Bron's post above has a link to the basics that we encourage everyone to take advantage of. The helping us to help you post provides information on setting up a spreadsheet and your signature. The spreadsheet will allow you to track Socks' progress and will allow us to follow along and provide feedback. There's also information on setting u p your signature. Signatures contain a snapshot of information about your cat so we don't keep asking you the same questions repeatedly.

I'm also going to link the Lantus forum page. There are sticky notes at the top of the page that will provide lots of information about Lantus including how it works and the dosing methods we use.

The dosing methods sticky has the following information on what to do if you have a lower than expected pre-shot number:
Until you collect enough data to know how your cat will react, we suggest following the guidelines in the FDMB's FAQ Q4.4:
Q4.4. My cat's pre-shot level was way below the usual value. Should I give the injection?
A4.4. There's no hard and fast rule, but if you don't have data on how your cat responds to insulin, here are some general guidelines.

• Below 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), don't give insulin.
• Between 150 and 200 (8.3-11.1 mmol/L), you have three options:
  • a.) give nothing
  • b.) give a token dose (10-25% of the usual dose)
  • c.) feed as usual, test in a couple of hours, and make a decision based on that value
• Above 200 (11.1 mmol/L) but below the cat's normal pre-shot value, a reduced dose might be wise.
• In all cases, if you are reducing or eliminating insulin, it's wise to check for ketones in the urine.
• Above the normal pre-shot value, give the usual dose, but if the pre-shot value is consistently elevated, it's a good idea to schedule a full glucose curve to see whether a change in dose or insulin is appropriate. In most cases, the target "peak" value should not be below 100 mg/dl (5.6 mmol/L), and for some cats it might be higher.

 

[Sock's mom]

Thank you so much for the info. It's very helpful! I feel like I'm on the right track. I've given her pumpkin today and haven't noticed any loose stools from her since last night which is the longest she has went without having the diarrhea for the last week so I'm hoping her probiotics and this pumpkin will do the trick and get her gut back to normal. Her blood sugar today has went from 202 to 162 2 hours later and now is 100 which is about 5 hours after her insulin dose. I really will try to get the spreadsheet set up tonight because I know it is probably so much easier for people to assist me with that info. Thank you all again. My mind feels so much more at ease.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Bron mentioned a particular probiotic -- S. boulardii. I think it works like magic! (It works just as well for humans as it does for cats.) There's a brand sold by Jarrow. This is a very reliable brand.

 

[Sock's mom]

I'll get some! I've been using Purina fortiflora. It worked for our kitten when we first rescued her and says it is diabetic safe but seems to take some time to work so I'll get the other to have on hand

 

[Sock's mom]

can someone let me know if I did my spreadsheet correctly? do i need to save changes to it every time I enter info or just enter info and I'm done?

 

[Tim & Pookey]

can someone let me know if I did my spreadsheet correctly? do i need to save changes to it every time I enter info or just enter info and I'm done?

Looks good on my end! Last entry was the 94 at + 1.75?

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

@Sock's mom
Welcome Kelsey and Socks
Your spreadsheet looks fine. On your signature can you put Human meter , only because I have never heard of IMDK Brand. You don't need to put it's from Amazon
When you decide on a dosing method to follow please add it to your signature and spreadsheet up top.Socks is such a handsome boy
Just a suggestion
If you ever run short of test strips waiting for them to be delivered you can always go to Walmart and get
Relion Premier Classic Meter at Walmart for 9 dollars
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103

The tests strips are 17.88 for 100
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-100-Count/575088197
At least if you need more test strips you can run into Walmart and pick them up or if you're running low you can just order them from Walmart

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Kelsey, looking at your spreadsheet, I would reduce the dose to 0.75unit as the 1 unit is too much and it is not letting you shot both cycles. So stay at the 0.75 units and we can see how the BGs go with that dose. If the BG drops below 90 or you are finding you can’t shoot both cycles because the preshot is too low, we may have to lower it more.
Have a look at the two dosing methods for Lantus and apse which one you think would suit you better.
Post each day so we can see

 

[Sock's mom]

Looks good on my end! Last entry was the 94 at + 1.75?

Yes, thank you!

 

[Sock's mom]

@Sock's mom
Welcome Kelsey and Socks
Your spreadsheet looks fine. On your signature can you put Human meter , only because I have never heard of IMDK Brand. You don't need to put it's from Amazon
When you decide on a dosing method to follow please add it to your signature and spreadsheet up top.Socks is such a handsome boy
Just a suggestion
If you ever run short of test strips waiting for them to be delivered you can always go to Walmart and get
Relion Premier Classic Meter at Walmart for 9 dollars
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103

The tests strips are 17.88 for 100
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-100-Count/575088197
At least if you need more test strips you can run into Walmart and pick them up or if you're running low you can just order them from Walmart

Thank you I will do that if i run low that's great info to know!

 

[Sock's mom]

Kelsey, looking at your spreadsheet, I would reduce the dose to 0.75unit as the 1 unit is too much and it is not letting you shot both cycles. So stay at the 0.75 units and we can see how the BGs go with that dose. If the BG drops below 90 or you are finding you can’t shoot both cycles because the preshot is too low, we may have to lower it more.
Have a look at the two dosing methods for Lantus and apse which one you think would suit you better.
Post each day so we can see

Thank you! I will lower the dose this evening if her BG is in a good range because I already had given her insulin this morning before I saw your reply. And just to be sure, 1 unit is a super super small amount, correct? I barely even draw anything up I feel lol my syringes have half unit markings but not quarter marks so do I just kind of eye ball it?

 

[Sock's mom]

Kelsey, looking at your spreadsheet, I would reduce the dose to 0.75unit as the 1 unit is too much and it is not letting you shot both cycles. So stay at the 0.75 units and we can see how the BGs go with that dose. If the BG drops below 90 or you are finding you can’t shoot both cycles because the preshot is too low, we may have to lower it more.
Have a look at the two dosing methods for Lantus and apse which one you think would suit you better.
Post each day so we can see

I'll check out tge dosing methods also! Thanks!

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

On your signature can you put Human meter , only because I have never heard of IMDK Brand. You don't need to put it's from Amazon
@Sock's mom

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Thank you! I will lower the dose this evening if her BG is in a good range because I already had given her insulin this morning before I saw your reply. And just to be sure, 1 unit is a super super small amount, correct? I barely even draw anything up I feel lol my syringes have half unit markings but not quarter marks so do I just kind of eye ball it?

Yes it is a very small amount. You will have to eyeball it. It will be between the 1/2 of 1 unit mark and the 1 unit mark.