Freya's ProZinc Saga, Vol. II

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Blair & Freya, May 22, 2017.

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  1. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aw she is so adorable! I love her little box fort!

    I'm with Djamila here...I think holding the dose for a few cycles might be a good idea. I'd just like to see what happens with that as right now it gave you at least one nice preshot...
     
  2. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear...
     
  3. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    Well, so much for that. :eek: It's worse than even I expected and I'm a pessimist. 346 (19.2) at +2. :arghh: I'll check her again tonight, but do you think I should go ahead and increase, given this new development?
     
  4. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I think I was getting a little too optimistic. Of course see where she goes tonight and tomorrow's morning numbers, but all things being normal, yes, I think you can go ahead.

    If she goes lower at mid-cycle though....(I'm just so determined to be optimistic here!).
     
  5. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Dang! I was hoping this was going to be our breakthrough. Let's see where she goes tonight...maybe this was just a food spike??
     
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  6. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    I still think today was good progress :)
     
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  7. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    Well, I was apparently so wiped out that I slept through the entire night, including the alarm to test her at +6. I have insomnia so this is really unusual for me. o_O I think I'm just drained lately.

    It seemed like people were curious what the 4.5u would do last night -- as was I, though I really doubt she got as low as she did during the day. As a compromise between that and 4.75u, she got a fat 4.5u this morning. She's also trying the Smilla kitten food for the first time today at +4, so I'm curious to see how that goes too. If I don't see anything interesting this cycle, she might get an increase to 4.75u tonight.

    It would be odd since that Smilla variety hasn't tended to spike her in the past, like she's gone from yellows to greens on it. :confused: Very weird. I wonder if it was just some kind of violent bounce since she hasn't hit blues for that long in ages. I mean that was probably more than seven hours of blues in a row.

    Yeah, at least she spent several hours out of those yellows. I wonder if the fat dose today will do anything different.
     
  8. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I'm so glad you had a good night's rest! Taking care of yourself is important too!
     
  9. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Teasel tends to wobble around nicer numbers as I get closer to his good dose for a given point in time. If I'm too far from the good dose he might throw the odd nice number but spends much more time in high bounce numbers. How short/long his bounce episodes are is an indicator of how close I am to a good dose. Yes, he's on Lantus and that might be a factor but I think it's a trend that bouncers in general will follow.
     
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  10. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    This +4 is looking much more like it should! I hope her new food doesn't screw it up... :nailbiting: Guess I should get to the store quick so I can test her again in an hour and find out. It's weird, part of me almost hopes she doesn't get too far into greens all at once, as that tends to send her bouncing like mad and "sticking", as @Kris & Teasel put it. I wonder if gradually working cats like this down to blues and then to greens would keep them from bouncing to those high flats. :bookworm: So confusing. Still, looks like it could be a good day!
     
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  11. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    The food doesn't appear to have caused any major issues. I'll have to experiment with it vs others some more. :bookworm: It's good to see two days with blues, even some mid-blues; maybe she'll be able to come down from those a bit smoother than the high yellows. My current plan is to give her another fat 4.5u tonight, since that did seem to bring her down some compared to the regular 4.5u previously. Then maybe 4.75u in the AM, depending on how that goes. Though I do wonder if I should try to keep her at these numbers for a couple cycles longer, to see if that helps her system acclimate itself to sub-2oo ranges after being higher for so long? ugh idk, just trying to figure out what's likely to be best and keep her from the sticky bounces.

    Update: And she's back to her usual pattern of late. 274 (15.2) at +8.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
  12. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Yes, one of those plans is good. I don't know which one either though :):bighug::p

    On one hand I'd say keep moving with the dose since holding still seems to feed into the stuck-ness. But you're absolutely right that moving too fast could send her bouncing. But she's so close to getting a nice mid-cycle drop that I'd be inclined to press forward anyway. But...

    So going back to my original thought: yup, one of the plans is good. But which one is anybody's guess!

    Sometimes you just have to look at your kitty and go with your gut. I know that's not much help. :oops:
     
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  13. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    But it's the truth! ;)
     
  14. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    Ugh you guys, she's seriously bouncing from those blues! Red PMPS. :arghh::arghh::arghh: Similar to last night's response, just higher... and today's AM cycle was lower than yesterday's, so that might make sense. She got a fat 4.5u again -- maybe closer to 4.75u than this morning's. It's hard to tell when eyeballing.

    Bah! I hope it's like the last bounce, where it didn't stick...
     
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  15. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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  16. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I second the hugs from Yong. Hang in there! And considering how high she started, that's not a bad drop at +4.
     
  17. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Breathe, Blair, breathe ... :cat:
     
  18. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    Hahah I know, and thanks. It was just like... seriously?! You didn't even get that low!

    After the red PMPS, I managed to get her to play pretty hard for about 20 minutes, maybe a little more if you count some of her less enthusiastic lazy play. :rolleyes: She was interested in a scrap of ribbon I unwrapped from something, so I took advantage and got her to chase that and her whip around the flat. She even did a bunch of flying leaps and dives onto and across the bed... at one point so vigorously that she slid too far and fell off! I thought maybe some exercise would help bring her BG down since she was in a playful mood. She needs to build her muscle back anyway after the wastage, but she's not always feeling up to it.

    This morning she got... uh... possibly one of @Yong's fat skinny doses?! It was more than a fat 4.5u, I think, but maybe a little less than 4.75u. It was closer to 4.75u than the past few days, so I just put it in as that on her spreadsheet. o_O After that dumb bounce from a mid-blue, I thought I'd see what happens if I keep her at this dose for a cycle or two more. She needs to adjust to the idea of being OUT of the renal threshold. :facepalm:
     
  19. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aww that sounds like fun play! I think anytime you can get her to play some, it's a good thing. And also, it shows you that even with those higher numbers, she feels okay still...okay enough to play at least!
     
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  20. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    Okay honestly wtf????

    I go to take her PMPS, it's 149 (8.3). Okay, another 20-minute stall, then food and shot, right? Nope. She's mad the whole 20 minutes, angrily huffing and puffing, and I test her again. She was STILL dropping, to 133 (7.4)! It's encouraging to see that her pancreas is probably doing A Thing, though god knows what that thing is. I might try keeping her around this dose and see if she continues to get into these blues, then work her down slowly. Notice that despite bouncing, she hasn't been sticking lately, which is great news for her. Still, I wish she could've had a shot tonight. I don't like her going without, but there was just no way! Very interesting stuff from the little weirdo.
     
  21. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    You're getting traction!! :D
     
  22. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    So it looks like Freya isn't interested in smiley shaped curves. She's going to wiggle her way lower with her own special pattern! ECID!
     
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  23. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    From the look of her PM +2.5, she doesn't APPEAR to be shooting dramatically back up... yet. Seems like when it happens, it's pretty sudden, so maybe I'll get lucky and she won't. My hope is that she'll not go too much higher and stay yellow until her next shot. Considering she ate and didn't get a shot tonight, that's not too bad a number right now.

    No kidding! :eek: I did a a double-take at that second PMPS attempt, hahah. It has me very curious to see what she'll continue to do at this dose. Since her body is clearly responding and taking some action of its own, that makes me hesitant to push too hard with increases -- especially since she's so sensitive. She'd be quite a case study. :rolleyes:
     
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  24. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    Argh... squeezed in a mid-cycle test out of curiosity. So much for my hopes of yellows through the night. :blackeye: Nothing I could do about it though. At least she shouldn't be bouncy in the AM, I guess. But first, back to sleep I go!

    Oh, I noticed the polyuria was much better after the final litter scooping tonight, which I'm glad to see! It's so bad overall.
     
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  25. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    Yucky high pink AMPS. :( Same approximate and ambiguous dose as yesterday (I think?!). She also got a little more food today since I suspect some slight weight loss is starting again. Once she's not all lazy from her full belly, I might try to coax her to play again to help her come down from that pink.

    After that bad PM rise the other night, I ordered her some ketostix, and they'll be arriving today. I'll try to pick them up from town later. How do you guys go about doing that? I don't think I could get a sample from her while she's doing the deed. I do still have an eyedropper thing from last time. I used the "fake" reusable plastic cat litter that time but found it such a nuisance to wash. Is there an easier way, or does anyone have any tips or tricks?

    In more pleasant news, I've gone back to lie down for a short rest since she kept me from getting a full night's sleep, :rolleyes: and she's LEFT HER FEEDER (!!!) to curl up by my side and purr. Guess she's not feeling too gross despite the numbers. And maybe the bit of extra food has her more content.
     
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  26. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    There's different ways to collect the sample from them. Some people crumble up some plastic wrap where they normally go and can grab a sample from where it pools on that (but you have to catch them before they bury it!). Others have a long handled spoon (clearly labeled) that they use to stick under them and grab the sample! I usually managed to get the sample while Gypsy was going but she was pretty easy going...the others wouldn't be nearly as easy!
     
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  27. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Re the urine sample: I use a long handled spoon (Teasel's own!) under his bum when he's peeing because he's quite relaxed about me watching him. It works really well. I'd try the crumpled plastic wrap trick if I had a more "modest" kitty.
     
  28. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    I'm honestly amazed at the suggestion about the spoons. It's cracking me up, but it's strangely genius. I'd have never thought of that!
     
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  29. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Compliments to Kris, Maury has his own piddle spoon too :D. My issue is he doesn't seem to keep a consistent schedule so a week flies by between ketone testing :woot:
     
  30. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Just buy yourself a cheap metal or plastic long handled shallow kitchen spoon, not a ladle. Teasel's has his name on it and it lives beside the litter box. Heaven forbid it should ever make it back to the kitchen! :eek:
     
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  31. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Happens to me too ...
     
  32. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    Ended up not being able to pick up the ketostix yesterday but will have them today for sure.

    I had a whole debate with myself while drawing up her insulin this morning. Ultimately, I decided to see what would happen on 4.75u at this AMPS. The pre-shots are slowly coming down, and this was the lowest AMPS in well over a week. It's worth a try. If there's no movement today, she'll start 5u tonight or tomorrow (depending how tired I am). I don't want these yellows gaining too much ground. We've seen what happens if they do. :nailbiting:
     
  33. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Here's hoping she come down for you today!
     
  34. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    Erm, I guess I made the right choice. o_O She hasn't even played today, so that's not an exercise drop. Is that not kind of a big drop from her +4, especially considering she ate after that test? I'll watch her and test again at +7 and so on as needed. Wtf is this cat doing?! I swear...

    And now unless a miracle happens, she'll shoot back up and threaten to stick. :stop: That's the worst part because with how she sticks up there, it's hard to tell when to increase after that starts. I feel like every time this has happened, the yellows have ended up coming back and running too rampant, causing a need for even more insulin. I guess I keep looking at it from the perspective of less sticky cats where their bounces easily clear. Maybe it sounds like I'm getting ahead of myself, but it's more like I'm trying to psych myself up. If it happens again, I'll try to remember this time that it might be okay to be slightly more aggressive in my approach.
     
  35. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    My experience with Teasel is that he's a little less sticky if I'm closer to the "good dose" for that particular point in time. It's as though the good dose exerts enough downward pressure on BG that the bounces are shorter and maybe not quite as high.
     
  36. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    I hope Freya is similar, then! At this point today, I'm also hoping she'll rise enough for me to give a PM shot so there's not a repeat of the other night. :confused: She doesn't yet stay low enough on her own for a no-shot to be a good thing. Looks like she's rising now though, and she had hours of blues and greens today. :cat: It's good to see something happening for a change.
     
  37. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

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    Cheering you on! What a great day Freya has had!
     
  38. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    Well, there's the huge overreactive response I've come to expect from her in the form of a black PMPS (or extremely high red if in US terms). :( I'm going to try to get her to run around some tonight and see if that helps again. So disappointing, yet not unexpected. I just hope she doesn't stay up... makes me anxious about the coming cycles.
     
  39. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

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    I hate those high numbers after a run of healing numbers. Timmy gets those too. Freya did have healing green numbers today. Try not to be discouraged. :)
     
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  40. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Lovely greens today. Ignore the black and focus on her run of good numbers. Teasel's having one was well but I expect to see high tomorrow.
     
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  41. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    Yeah. It's not the high PS in itself that worries me, but the way she often stays high for multiple increases after this happens. I'm hoping she won't keep to that trend this time, since it's been kind of an anomalous string of cycles recently. Maybe her bounce response will be different this time, too. I'm hoping she'll do as Teasel does and start leveling out.

    I managed to convince her to run and jump around for 20-ish minutes again. Granted, only part of that was play... the other part was me holding her tube of treats out of reach to bribe her into jumping up and down repeatedly. :rolleyes: She got a few tiny pieces at the end. I'm not that mean, hahah.
     
  42. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    This is Teasel's 7th day on his current dose and it took this long for him to show me a run of green. The other days are about 50:50 blues and yellow/pink - ignoring my meter switch.
     
  43. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    I think it's been about two weeks until now since Freya had greens. I think before that at one point, it was something like twelve days with barely anything happening and pretty much all yellows in spite of increase after increase. That's what bothers me more than anything, I think.

    He and Freya do seem to be similarly annoying. I'm sure they're talking on those secret cat-only forums I keep hearing about...
     
  44. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Yowza! That's like an Olympic level bounce! But what a pretty run of greens before then! Bouncing is just part of the process, so hang in there. Hopefully you'll both have some fun play time, and some good snuggles and a nice evening anyway!
     
  45. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    Yes, she's a pole vaulting champion. That's why I was scared of getting to greens too fast. :banghead: My intention was to try to keep her in blues for a while longer, but I guess she had other plans!

    The good news is that I finally got a hold of the ketostix just a bit ago. I was curious, so cleaned her litterbox and took off the lid, then plopped her in front of it. She's been drinking about 300 gallons of water tonight, so she went right in and did her stuff. Despite her facing the wrong way in a corner, I managed to get some on the strip with careful maneuvering (no chance to buy the fabled pee spoon yet!). She gave me a look like "what the hell are you doing now?!" but the strip appears negative. I'll try again in a few days with a better method for comparison... :smuggrin:
     
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  46. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Lol...I never used the spoon either. I'd just do it the way you did and Sam would give me a funny look, but it didn't stop him from doing his business!

    Sam is high tonight too. Nothing like what you're dealing with, but high for him (which means still pretty low). But I think you're right about the secret-forum conversation!
     
  47. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    You guys know that our kitties on these forums tend to do the same thing! When one is high, they're ALL high. It's that cat forum!

    Don't be discouraged, Blair. Freya did have a lovely run of healing greens and blues, and that bounce wasn't unexpected. I think today's response shows that the insulin is working and you just need to give her some time to get leveled out hopefully.

    Djamila, still thinking through your situation some. I don't have any great ideas, but I'm trying to keep my brain on it in hopes something will come up!
     
  48. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    I'll take that high-for-Sam number off your hands if you want... :D
     
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  49. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I know, I know. I feel bad even posting sometimes. :oops::rolleyes::p If there was some way to pass around his blues and greens, I would happily share!
     
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  50. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    I don't think there's anything to feel bad about. I imagine it's its own brand of frustration when he seems so close to going OTJ but isn't quite there yet and you see him inching higher! I think maybe he needs to give Freya and Teasel lessons, though. :p
     
  51. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    So... weird AM cycle o_O with a good PMPS. The random rise mid-AM surprised me. Unless she's suddenly developed an issue with that particular variety of food, I don't think it's a food spike. She's had a few times before where she's randomly "spiked" after eating a food she usually continues to drop on, for no apparent reason other than maybe her weird regulation issues and unpredictable cycles. It may be that, but I'll keep watching just to make sure.

    Fingers crossed for good stuff tonight... :nailbiting:
     
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  52. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes that weird number can just be something random too...we call it "oh look a squirrel" syndrome. :joyful:
     
  53. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    Glad I got that +6 last night, because between that and this morning's strangely nice AMPS, I'm assuming she may have had one of her trademarked delayed/"long" cycles last night. Given that, I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up rising for the first part of this AM. It's good to see she at least hit blue last night. Now, if she could just do that some more...

    She's got 100 more test strips on the way since we're blowing through them lately. I'm trying to be relatively conservative if I can until they arrive, just to be safe. (Pretty sure I'm keeping some London guy on eBay in business.) And I ordered more MAC's food last night to add back into the mix. Just the usual Duck/Turkey/Chicken and Turkey/Blueberry, plus their Mono Sensitive Turkey to try for the first time. New foods are always a bit scary, but with her being as sensitive as she is, I feel like I really need to learn which ones are okay in case an issue ever arises with one of her regular varieties, or something goes out of stock. It's like 1% carb, so I just hope the minuscule amount of carrot doesn't disagree with her. :rolleyes: The blueberry in the other kind doesn't seem to.

    ...Anyway, I feel like I want to sit down with some popcorn as I wait on the edge of my seat for how this cycle unfolds. :p
     
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  54. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I think you're getting close to her "good dose". She's given you some nice numbers with 4.75 u but I think you'll be at 5 u soon. Tricky/bouncy cats tend to bobble and wobble a bit when they're dancing around the good dose. I speak from entirely too much experience! :confused::)
     
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  55. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    Yeah I agree. What in the world is going on today though? She's gone from 11.2 at AMPS to 19.1 at +4. Ugh.

    (Corrected +3 to +4. Typo!)
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  56. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Bounce! But you know that ... o_O
     
  57. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Oh, Freya... :oops:
     
  58. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    Yeah, I just don't think I've ever seen anything quite like that from her before. It's like an upside-down curve. :eek: I'd like to see if she stabilises a little first, but I wonder when I should bump her to 5u.

    Edit: And whoops, I realise now that in my post, I accidentally wrote that the spike was at +3, but it was in fact at +4 like the sheet indicates. Dumb fingers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  59. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    Hm... part of me wonders what's going on after those PM +6s the past few nights. She's clearly getting some time in blues overnight, but I wonder if they've been typical cycles or some of the strange ones lately where she keeps dropping at various times past +6. I think the latter may have been the case on the 9th. I'm encouraged to see she's not staying all yellow, in any case.

    I was trying to let any prolonged bounce to clear, but do you guys think I should go ahead and try 5u within the next few days?
     
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  60. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Generally people around here say that a bounce can take up to six cycles to clear, although I was looking at a spreadsheet the other day that had eight cycles to clear the bounces. So an argument could be made for waiting a couple more cycles. However, given Freya's inclination toward sticking, I think I'd lean toward making the increase. That being said, I agree with Kris' earlier comments that you seem to be getting closer to a good dose, so you may start to see greater volatility in the next increase or two.
     
  61. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Teasel has taken longer than 6 cycles to clear a bounce before. He clears them faster when he's at a better dose. Another thing about long cycles: they can happen when a bounce is clearing. Teasel shows this pattern sometimes - BG continues to drop right up to the end of the cycle.

    I'd take a chance on 5 u today if it was my Sticky Kitty. :)
     
  62. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    If you'll be around to monitor her as usual, I agree you could try 5.0U today :cat:
     
  63. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    Mar 19, 2017
    She'd already had her AM shot by the time of the posts, but I gave her 5u for her PM just now and will monitor through the night. I've taken to sleeping on the couch between cat-check phone alarms when I have to. ;) I was shocked, she actually slept through her test/food/shot alarm tonight and didn't even hear it go off. Normally she starts bugging/staring at/pawing me an hour before. There was a look of panic on her face once I'd woken her and let her hear the ringtone. :D
     
  64. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Not too pleased so far after two cycles on 5u. :( Maybe tonight will be a bit better. I've noticed that a lower than usual pre-shot usually means she'll either have a flatter cycle than usual or climb higher. So today's AM wasn't entirely unexpected.
     
  65. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Isn't it comforting to start to see the patterns? It helps give a better idea of what to expect and how to dose going forward. You're doing such a great job!!!

    Sam used to do that too. A higher PS meant a nice drop, and a lower PS meant a flat cycle. It's a good feeling to have enough data to feel like we are making an educated guess instead of a reckless gamble.
     
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  66. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Once I have her new test strips, I'll increase to 5.25u if nothing interesting happens. I think I should have them by tomorrow or Wednesday at the latest.

    Her MAC's delivery arrived a bit ago. I was stacking the cans in the cabinet using little cardboard pallets, and I looked over and saw this...

    [​IMG]

    ...How did my cat suddenly become a box cat?! She never used to be, but between this and her box fort, I'm starting to think it's some innate thing and she was a late bloomer... :cat:

    Oh, if you look at her chest just beside her white patch, you can see where her fur grew back in red after the vet shaved it during her diagnosis. I read this was because of mineral deficiency or something? :( There are a few other places with a slighter reddish tint, but that spot is extremely obvious in person. I haven't noticed any more recent reddish growth further down on the hair shaft as that spot grows out, but her fur is grey further down. I wonder if only the black part would be affected.
     
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  67. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Similar thing happened to Maury after his last lion cut, some of his black fur grew back more brownish/rust. Also his striped furs are taking longer to come in, past month or so I noticed more stripes again :). We had a black cat that adopted us, she had to have been abused by previous owners :mad:, but she had fur that grew back the same reddish tint as Freya once we started taking care of her.
     
  68. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    What a beauty she is! Her eyes are gorgeous! :D
     
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  69. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Interesting. It's very weird to look at, especially in the sun: black cat with red patches. :confused: From what I've read, it can be deficiencies in minerals or amino acids which affect the melanin or whatever. I also recall reading somewhere that it can happen in cats with liver damage, and I know her enzymes were out of whack at the last test. :( That's pretty typical of diabetes though, isn't it? I'd like to get her organ functions tested again, but not sure how often stuff like that should be done. I guess she might be going in for some tests soon anyway if her dose keeps increasing as it has been...

    Her test strips actually arrived unexpectedly today, but I remembered I won't be home in the AM tomorrow, so I'll hold off on the increase until I can be there for her. Really not liking the look of this 5u.
     
  70. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    She's gorgeous! I love the look she's giving you "What? This is my box..."
     
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  71. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Yeah, she also claimed the big box her MAC's was delivered in. At least she fits in that one though. :rolleyes:
     
  72. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    If I fits, I sits....



    [​IMG]
     
  73. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    LOL!!! I love that!
     
  74. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Figures she has what starts out to be a better looking AM cycle when no one will be home... argh! I hope she'll be alright. I've put the cat-cam on so will check in on her via webcam while out. Good news is MAC's Mono Sensitive Turkey doesn't seem to spike her, so that's one more thing she can eat. :cat:

    Hahah that's great. She spent several hours last night curled up in her MAC's box. She fits perfectly for shipping. :D
     
  75. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    C'mon ... I DARE you to test my BG! :mad:
     
  76. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    I'm sure she'll be fine. And love that you have a cat-cam!
     
  77. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    I've been preoccupied so haven't been around here as much, but well, looks like Freya is going to be starting 6u soon. :( Just no luck with anything. Her dose just climbs and climbs, and this insulin is getting expensive. I'm already about halfway through the second vial of ProZinc that I just opened not that long ago. I really need to see if it's something that can be treated and remedied because this is on its way to becoming a financial burden, as well as being worried about her.

    I'd like to take her to the vet and get her checked out. I am not even sure if they'll be able to test for things like acromegaly or IAA here; I know not everywhere can. What other things should I try to eliminate? Are there any infections or other issues I should be looking for, and if so, what would be the symptoms?
     
  78. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    I'm so sorry she's getting to such a high dose! That is expensive. Is Lantus/Levimir any more affordable where you live? I just ordered from a pharmacy in Canada and it is less expensive than Prozinc.

    There are tons of things that can cause high BG, but I think one of the more common is dental issues just because cats hide them so well. Until it gets really bad, they often won't show any symptoms at all. But really any infection or inflammation can keep their numbers elevated. That might be a good question to post in the main forum, or to search for in the main forum.

    There is also a short acting insulin called "R" that is sometimes given to higher dose kitties to give them a boost when the regular insulin doesn't have much impact. I don't know anything about cost, and it isn't widely used, but the couple of people I've seen try it have had some success with it. If the vet rules out infections or other health issues, that might be worth researching a bit. I've only seen it used over in the Lantus forum, so once other health issues are cleared, you might post/search there to learn more about it.

    A couple of things to consider: Freya's numbers have come down overall in the past two months, and your notes indicate that her symptoms are somewhat better as well. She is making progress. It's slow and not to the level we'd all like, but her numbers really aren't terrible, and she's feeling better, so what you're doing really is working.
     
  79. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    It's interesting, because she sure is headed up that dosing scale, yet she is getting good numbers. I think, if she was mine, I'd schedule a vet visit for a checkup. Have them look at her teeth to see if she needs a dental, check for any infections, and just a general overall check. If you find anything there, get it handled and see if that helps. If not, ask about the tests for acro and IAA I know @Sharon14 has an acro cat and could maybe give you more info about that.

    Most people with high dose cats switch to Lantus or Lev...I think Lev is most common as it's thought to sting less at higher levels, but not every cat seems to notice any sting. I'm not sure if Freya is high dose or not...I seem to remember high dose cats having worse numbers, but I admit that I don't really know much about it.
     
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  80. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Hi Blair, Freya is beautiful!!! I love black kitties! We do usually recommend testing for acromegaly and IAA when a cat gets to 6u. I'm not sure how it works where you are, although I've seen posts here about the RVC doing research on acro, so maybe you can get testing info from them. If you want to know more about it, maybe start a new post(this ones getting long) and I'll tag Wendy, our acro/IAA expert to come answer any questions you have.
     
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  81. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    HERES the RVC Trial thread.
     
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  82. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Hey! How are you and Freya? :cat:
     
  83. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Probably better not to ask. Life has been pretty crap lately, and now all this on top of it. I was waiting to post until after today since she had a vet visit, so let me tell you A Thing.

    She hit 6u, and eventually 6.5u, so I called a cat clinic across town to have her seen, thinking maybe it would be a better experience than her usual vet. It was not. This place was far away and we don't have a car, so I took a taxi way over there. The vet then tells me:
    • They literally NEVER advise glucose curves on cats. Ever. Because "stress."
    • To cease all home testing of her immediately because of "overanalysis", even though in my experience, I am more cautious and conservative in my approach to dose increases than the vet was.
    • To cease all home testing of her immediately because the "stress" of it is partially to blame for her hyperglycaemia and insulin resistance. When I pointed out that Freya literally sleeps through her tests half the time, the response was that it's "stressful even if it doesn't seem like it." Even if she's not bothered enough to wake up because she's used to it and doesn't give a crap?!
    • To instead rely solely on fructosamine tests at their office.
    • To drop her dose down to 6u and not increase for at least a week or two.
    • To absolutely not test her ever, unless I suspect she's "too low," in which case I should just bring her to them and not even attempt to address it myself. (I know how to steer.)
    • Stuff about "overswing" despite the fact that I have an abundance of detailed data showing that it's extremely unlikely she's ever been low enough to have a true hypoglycaemic episode to the point that this would be some overarching issue.
    They attempted to draw blood for a test, but she got extremely aggressive and was hissing and drooling and trying to bite, and she ended up peeing and pooping all over the table. So she had to have a bath immediately once getting home.

    Anyway, I'm completely out of ideas. I can't get any veterinary support here, and I don't know what I'm supposed to do now. I'm seriously so frustrated and angry I could cry. Is this a UK thing? I ask that legitimately, not to be mean. I cannot imagine my extremely proactive and enthusiastic US vet who loves a challenge EVER saying these things, but it seems like this is old textbook information they continue to spout over here or something. Every experience I've had with a UK vet has been this way so far, and most of what I've read online from others seems to be in keeping with this trend. I'm seriously so baffled and feel like I'm living in the Twilight Zone of complacency. Where are the proactive vets? If anyone has heard about a good FD vet in the Edinburgh area of Scotland, I'd sure love to hear about them.

    And if anyone has any advice for me on how to continue on my own, I could really use it and the support. I really feel so lost and just want to do what's best for her. I'll be picking up a new vial of ProZinc from her usual vet tomorrow because she's nearly done with the other one already.

    I think getting the tests is going to be a real struggle for me, if it's even possible at all. :( They don't want to do anything until she's over 9u, but as you can see from my above rant, I don't feel I have much reason to be confident in them.
     
  84. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    :bighug: So sorry you're being treated this way! I don't bring my cat to the vet anymore for his diabetes. I home test and get help here if needed. As for the acro tests, I know several people on this forum that are in the US have been in contact with the RVC via email, so I would think you could too. They could maybe give you some info and might even have vet suggestions. I'll go ahead and tag @Wendy&Neko to give some ideas and I think @saltycat and @Bronx's dad have spoken with someone at RVC?
     
  85. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    So sorry you have an out of date vet. :bighug: Mine didn't want to do the tests until we were over 10 units - never got that high. I asked the vet to humour me as I was paying the bill. Guess who was more surprised than me at the results. :rolleyes:

    The Royal Veterinary Clinic is where blood is sent to be sampled for acromegaly. They have recent papers showing that one in four diabetic cats has acromegaly. This paper is one of their more recent ones, we have a lot more information on acromegaly listed in this thread on acromegaly. I don't know if your vet would be any more amenable to doing the blood draw and sending in the tests if you showed them the recent paper. It sounds like they currently have their head firmly in the sand when it comes to diabetes. :banghead: To their credit, vets used to be taught "this is acromegaly, it is rare, you will never see it". More recently graduated vets or those who keep current should know better.

    If you want to contact the RVC, here is the email address for the Feline Diabetes Remission Clinic at RVC. drc@rvc.ac.uk
    If you do find out Freya has acromegaly, the RVC are offering the world wide gold standard in treatment. If nothing else, they are a great resource and have answered several emails from me and others here.
     
  86. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Sorry to hear what you had to deal with Blair :bighug::bighug::bighug:. I don't think it's just a UK thing but similar to US, the good Vet to old school Vet's is very in proportionate. Try not to feel like you are continuing alone, we are still here for you and Freya! Even with finding a better Vet for my boy, he's still only going to go if there's some other issue like recently. I'll gladly share some knowledge with her as she does seem open about it and admires what I'm doing but sticking here for any diabetic related questions. Sounds like RVC is a helpful place though. Remember, you can always vent here :)
     
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  87. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    So sorry you're feeling defeated, Blair. :bighug: You don't have to deal with FD on your own - we're all here to help and there are owners of high dose kitties for that part of it. I suspect that the vast majority of members here are doing the FD thing on their own.
     
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  88. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Dang, that's terrible, Blair! I despise it when a vet tries to tell me not to do things that I KNOW I need to do. It just makes me furious!

    Please do remember you always have us. We've been there and we can help you, even if the darn vet won't! I would contact RVC yourself if you can...and if not, I'd probably just call the vet and explain that you want this test, you will be paying for it, and they need to just go with it. Nicely, of course, but firmly.
     
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  89. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    I guess what bothers me most is that they don't even seem to want to do the testing I'm asking for. Like, I wanted to have her tested for any possible infections, have her teeth and ears checked, test for high-dose conditions, and it was just totally dismissed. To me that's a step beyond just being out of touch about the benefits of home testing. What reason can there possibly be to not run tests? I can manage dosing on my own, but I can't do things like labs and bloodwork, you know?

    As I took her PMPS tonight, I observed how incredibly "stressed" she was. She was so "stressed" and under such duress that she was excited as usual when her test time alarm went off, because she knows it means food. She was in such a state of anguish that I'm sure it made her BG rise by at least 100 points in the 30 seconds it takes to give the tiniest pin prick to her ear. How can I put my cat through such torment??? :rolleyes: How ridiculous does that sound, seriously?! If I don't immediately get up when her alarm goes off, she comes and chases me down meowing and trying to lead me to the kitchen. But, you know, she's just so stressed by the whole ordeal...

    And thanks, everyone. I'll have to do some investigating into the RVC thing and see what's doable. Urgh.

    Edit to continue the rant: Oh, do you think it would blow their minds if I told them she often purrs happily for her morning tests, because she's still all sleepy and cuddly and enjoys being wrapped up in the blanket when I do it? So stressful.
     
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  90. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    LOL....it's not very often that sarcasm comes across quite that clearly in a post! :)

    I'm so so sorry you had to go through all of that today! What a terrible experience. Others have already said it, but please know that you are not alone. We are all here to walk through this journey with you. You're right though - we can't run lab tests. Can you call around a bit and just ask upfront if they will do the tests you need before traveling all over the country talking to old fuddy-duddy vets?!

    Is it possible for you to get Lantus? If you're running out of Prozinc anyway, I'm wondering if it might be worth giving it a try if you can?
     
  91. Marvin's Mom - Nat

    Marvin's Mom - Nat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2017
    My vet told me for ketone tests, it ok to just take the pee with the litter and add a bit of water as ketone test is look for a specific chemical I guess, it won't dilute the results. If you were testing urine for bacteria, then that would not work.... My kitty makes it easy for me, pees on floor on regular basis. lol
     
  92. Marvin's Mom - Nat

    Marvin's Mom - Nat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2017
    I can vouch for RVC as I recently reached out for help, as my cat was diagnosed with acromegaly about a month ago. I reached out to one of the researchers and have exchanged emails, and my kitty is now on an experimental drug that may help. My vet was very willing to help me, as when I went to the internist here, I had a bad experience too. I was pretty sure he was an acro cat, he was at 6U, was mostly flat all the time in mid 20s, he also had most of the symptoms of acromegaly, the internist wanted to do all the test in the world first, my vet had been doing regular tests, but they want to redo, would have been over 2,000.00 just for tests. they convinced me that I should let him go, as if I couldn't do the test, I could afford to help him. Well, thank god I vented on here, as Wendy, Sharon, Kris and so many others encouraged me to hold on. And funny enough, the day after that visit at the internist Marvin gave me his first low number... think he was also telling to not give up....

    I worked it out with my own vet, and we simply did the acromegaly test which I could afford. the way she saw it, there is nothing to lose, and she is also very supportive with the experimental drug. It's been an emotional road, I am so glad I haven't given up. He is doing a lot better than last month. It too bad that you are having a hard time, as UK has the top researcher for diabetes in the world.
     
  93. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I didn't know this. :)
     
  94. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Hi Blair! I see you got some nice blues :cool: yesterday! Hope you and Freya are well :bighug:
     
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