Frozen insulin

See if Buttons will eat out of your raised hand. Any creature that is nauseous will not want to lower its head.

Check for dehydration. Grab a pinch of scruff on the back of the neck. Let go. If the skin goes down rather quickly, your cat is hydrated. If the skin take for than a second or two, your cat needs fluids.
You can also check the gums. They should be moist and not tacky.

 

Hasn't used Vetsulin yet, his new Prozinc vial never arrived today so a friend lent him some Vetsulin. It's been the old Prozinc being used this whole time.

 

This video shows how to check for hydration in dogs and then in cats.

 

No comment without a spreadsheet. Pretty much what Deb said. Sorry, but safety first.

 

Sorry ... looks like he did use some Vetsulin Sunday PM cycle. Didn't notice that.

Saturday - 1+ unit Prozinc (little more than 1 he said)
AMPS: 487
+3 389
+6 283
+9 400
PMPS: 575 (not sure how much insulin was given)
+3 490

Sunday - 1.5u Prozinc
AMPS: 455
+1 488
+3 460
+6 449
+8.5 501
PMPS: 571 (1u Vetsulin)
+1.5 568

Monday - 2u Prozinc
AMPS: 525
+1 555
+5 372
+8 401
PMPS: 500s (??)
+4 300s (??)

Tuesday - 1.5u Prozinc
AMPS: HI
+3 506
+6 513
1 unit Prozinc given at +6
+1 (or +7) 467
+2 (or +8) 555

 

Spreadsheet. That is what we rely on to see the data.

 

Hi @James kelch, I have sent you a PM for the information I need to set-up your spreadsheet.

Bhooma

 

Thank you Bhooma

 

Thank you. New to the site. Where do I find this?

 

Sorry for no reply’s last night was worried sick. Couldn’t concentrate. I’ll give you my last bit of info. Yesterday morning. 8:30. He tested HI. Gave him a little more than 1 1/2 old prozinc. At 11:25 he was at 506. At 1:30 he was at 513. Went up. Called vet. Riled me to give him 1 unit prozinc. Tested at 2:45 he was at 467. By 6:30. Back to 555. Doc told me to give him 2 units Vetsulin for night shot. 8:45 pm 2 units Vetsulin. At 11:24 pm he was at 511. Went down 44 points. This morning at 8:30 he tested at 474. Way lower than yesterday morning. Gave him 2 units of Vetsulin at 8:47. By 10:52 he was up to 486??? Bounce??? A few minutes after I tested him. His new prozinc finally arrived. Called vet. Not there. Another vet said wait until tonight to start new prozinc. But another lady on the phone said to test him and if he stays hi. Give 1/2 unit of new prozinc. ???? Should I wait and start fresh tonight with the new prozinc? Not sure if bouncing in between test or not.

 

Forgot to say. Got the keytone strips. Tested negative last night and this morning

 

Excellent to no ketones! How's he eating?

Wait till tonight, he's been dosed enough times right now! The Vetsulin is good anyhow, you don't want to double dose.

As for the bounce...not likely. A meter is given up to 20% meter variance, so 474 and 486 are the same numbers. Bounces are going to be major, like from 90 to 400.

Go to the top right, you should have 1 red message notification for your inbox from Bhooma.

 

Ok. Fed him through a little push vile. Want to much. Entire vile. Just rest him 12:43 and he went down to a 372. Haven’t seen these numbers in days. Unless I was missing them. Not gonna give him new prozinc until tonight for sure. Is he going down to fast? Bounce when I ain’t looking? I appreciate all your help. Not my first diabetic. But still feel as if I’m not sure at times what’s going on.

 

Licks at stuff. But won’t eat in on his own. Few treats here in there. Or a lick f from a squeeze treat.

 

Vetsulin hits early, usually 1-3 hours after injection and starts heading up shortly after, it's normal. Don't be tempted to shoot again when numbers start rising.

Keep letting him have whatever he wants, even if it's higher in carbs. Did you see Kel's advise to hold the food up for him? If he's still nauseous you want to ask for that ondansetron script again, or get the anti-nausea your vet was going to give you yesterday.

 

I got the anti nausea meds. 1 tablet broken into four pieces. Says give him one piece per day. He will eat treats out of my hand when he eats. Just tried. Didn’t want. May just give him another vile feeding. Although he’s no fond of that. But I’d love for something to be in his belly for the insulin to work on.

 

Okay awesome that must be cerenia.

Yes, even without diabetes in the mix a cat not eating enough can develop fatty liver so you want to get as many calories in him as you can. Try to avoid using his regular food because a lot of times they form an aversion to food they're assist-fed, just like us when we have a bad experience with a certain food.

 

Sounds good. THank you. Not feeding him his Regular Food. Got some some hi calorie stuff the vet gave me for cats in distres.

 

Question. He was on 1 1/2 units prozinc in the morning. 1 unit at night. Then we went down to 1 and 1. As he would go to low sometimes. Vet says I should give him 1 1/2 units of the new fresh prozinc tonight. Sound good?

 

It's hard to say since his dosing has been all over the place as of yet. Can you tell me again what his dose was this morning and his readings today on the Vetsulin? 1.5u might be fine but I'd like to know what happened today.

 

8:30 am. 474
8:47 am 2 units Vetsulin.
10:52 am 486
12:43 pm 372
Haven’t tested since. He’s been sleeping peacefully for the most part. Peeing and I fed him 4 times with my push vile. Not sure exactly how much that is. Figure since I wasn’t gonna give him more insulin I TIL tonight I would wait and text before hand. I figure they will be hi again. Gonna feed him some more before his shot. Gonna start doing the at 9 and 9.

 

Go to the top right, you should have 1 red message notification for your inbox from Bhooma.

It would really help if you have a spreadsheet, then enter all the numbers you have taken so far and put them in, there is a remarks column there also so you can comment what you have been doing each day and night

 

Is there a spread sheet available for me to use?

 

You have to reply to Bhooma , she sent you a message ,you have to reply to her.
Click on your avatar where your name is , the square on the left, then hit profile , you will then see in the upper right hand corner it says inbox , that's from Bhooma click on that
Take a look at my cats spreadsheet under this message you will see it says Tyler's spreadsheet, you will get an idea what it looks like, you can look at anyone's else's also

 

• Please set this up
• It would be helpful if you can set up your signature
• On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature. This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
• • There is a limit of two lines which may include two links; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc. This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
  • Add any other text, such as
  • Caregiver & kitty's name (optional)
  • DX: Date
  • Name of Insulin
  • Name of your meter
  • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
  • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
  • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
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  • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
  • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.

Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.


tap on your avatar where it says your name ,then hit profile page ,tap on that ,then go up to the very top, upper right hand side and tap on your name ,it will bring down a drop box, tap on signature, the signature will be under settings, tap on the signature then and you can start to add what I posted above, make sure you hit save ,
Welcome to the best place you could ever be and an awesome group of people

 

Aww, I hope he's feeling a little better.
1.5u may be fine tonight ... I don't want to say anything for certain, I'll have to leave it up to you with what you're comfortable with. I'd like to see his numbers go down again, poor guy, but if he's still feeling bad from whatever is making him nauseous the numbers probably aren't going to budge much.

Yes, at the top right check the notification for your Inbox, Bhooma has sent you a message about setting up your spreadsheet!

 

I’m not sure he’s nauseous from anything. He never will eat if his numbers are hi. Same when he was first diagnosed. Soon and i has his numbers god he ate really well. They get bad. He won’t eat. Still no keytones. Not showing any signs of pain in his abdomen. Blood test was good. We will have his pancreas tested next few days. He also has listed most of husbands teeth. Sometimes has An infection. Got Medan for it few days back. I think 1/1/2 will Be a good start. That was his dose for years until he needed less. Thanks everyone. I’ll try and bet that his sores she’s going ASAP. Just need to figure it outs. Never didn’t anything like that before.

 

Nausea doesn't appear randomly though, that's why it's so important to be on top of things if a diabetic goes off their food. There's a lot of ailments that are common among diabetic kitties. Is he lethargic, ever in meatloaf position?

So he has teeth issues? That will raise BG. Any sort of infection/illness/bad teeth will raise BG, you'll want to get everything in check to lower his BG back down.

I'm really happy to see he's staying ketone-free.

 

Yes. Many teeth issues. Has only a few left. And your right it always affects him when he’s infected. Went through it before. Doc said last few sent loose and looked pretty much ok. Gave him some meds. Hopefully helps. Well. Time to test and shoot. Thank you.

 

Is it Stomatitis?

Good luck!

 

what stomatitis? Ok. He was at 372 around 1 pm. Tested and 9pm. Meter read HI. Just gave him the 1 1/2 new prozinc.

 

Can you get a test in two hours please? Let's see how he's doing then.

Stomatitis (or Feline Chronic Gingivostomatitis) is a chronic condition from severe inflammation of the mouth tissues. I think it's common for diabetics to get it, or vice versa. Usually need several (or all) teeth pulled to manage it. Did the vet say why his teeth were removed? Does he get anything for his teeth?

 

The vet removed a few. The rest Carmen out in their own. He said didn’t look inflamed last visit. Maybe we shouldn’t have them all removed. So. I should test him 2 hours after shot? Then every 2 hours for a bit? I will do that. I usually test to soon and get depressed when it hasn’t started working. He hasn’t been a regular meds for his teeth.

 

Yikes! Wow, poor Buttons. I wonder what the cause is. @Red & Rover (GA) any experience with teeth falling out on their own?

Test him two hours after (and post please, I want to know what the number is!). If it's high still I would leave him alone for the night, if it's lower then we'll see if you need to test any more.

 

Thank you so much. I will test every few hours. I haven’t mentioned. He has women sort of fatty tumor over left rib cage Vet said not cancer and even if it was he wouldn’t survive the operation. His blood test. All clean. No white cells floating around. I real hope it was just a slow build with bad insulin. He has been good for so many years. Prozinc woked really well for him. Even to the point we though he may only need one shot a day. Ughhhhh. Took a long time time to I get him regulated. So I’m sure it will again. We shall see. Love him so.

 

Fingers crossed he gets to feeling better.
I don't know of any kitties that only need one shot a day, kitties need a lot of consistency. We'll get there though! Hugs to Buttons
Were you able to locate Bhooma's message in your inbox and respond?

 

No experience whatsoever.

James – I suggest you start looking for a new vet.

 

I found her message and responded. Just have no experience on spreadsheets or even how t find or set one up.

 

You’re right. He’s very caring. And loves animals. But I can tell he might not know much about feline diabetics. Well starting to be able to tell anyway.

 

Okay awesome. She can help you. Bhooma lives in India so her timezone is different, she probably hasn't seen it yet.

I agree with Kel, caring is nice but we also need knowledgeable. It concerns me that Buttons has a lot of health issues that he doesn't seem to be explaining to you. At least from the sound of it. And that he was/is unconcerned about his nausea. You want someone who's familiar with common feline diabetic ailments - pancreatitis, teeth issues, ketones, etc. You're not going to find an expert unfortunately, but at least someone who won't push issues to the side and say "wait a couple days".

I know you're not very tech-savvy James but can we get you to set up your signature? Only takes a moment and you won't have to bother with it again.

Here's an example of what I had (before my little girl passed):

Panic and Elizabeth | dx 3/28/19 | Lantus TR | Fancy Feast Classics | ReliOn Prime

This is my and kitty's name, then diabetes diagnose date, the insulin she is on, the food she eats, and the meter we use.
If Panic had health issues other than diabetes we would list that too. So for yours could you fill this out:

James and Buttons | dx (diagnose date) | Prozinc | (food brand) | (meter brand) | Teeth issues

At the end I would list any other illness or disease he has, such as the teeth or the tumor if you have a name for it. That way everyone can look at your signature quickly and not have to ask you what insulin or food he's on, etc. At the top right, right beside the Inbox you clicked for Bhooma's message, click James kelch and then click Signature. Type it in there and click save.

 

That was yesterday

 

I will set it up.

 

Thanks so much!

About time for a test. I hope he's lower.

 

Tested at pre shot. 9 pm. Meter read HI. Tested just now at 11:13. Down to 498. I know the meter stops at 600.

 

Form a non read HI. TO 498. So it’s is working for sure.

 

Still higher than we'd like but nice to see at least a little budging! I would get another test one or two hours from now to see if it goes down more any, then call it a night.

 

Yeah. I’m gonna test again in 2 hours for sure. If it’s keeps lowering I will continue t test. If it’s going slow or rising I’ll leave him be. Yes. Higher than I’d like. But I know His prozinc when good last way longer and continues going down for a bit. When he’s this hi though I know it’s gonna take time to I get him regulated. Been. through it before. Came to this board to rea back then. But this time I signed up. I appreciate you.

 

You know your stuff James! Glad to have you and Buttons here.

 

Hi James, I have set-up your SS and you will need to enter the test data you have in it. Let me know if you face any issues.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yhaDfrqF_XLlmMTcjj1paimmGGpGDkEhuh2QewPzaA0/edit?usp=sharing

 

THANK YOU Bhooma!

 

Awesome. Thank you.

 

Last night. . 9:00. Hi. Then shot. 1 1/2 prozinc. 11:00 498. 1:00 461. 3:30 441.

This am at 8:30 518

 

Aw, was hoping for lower numbers - at least we're seeing a dip though!

James if you can take some time today and fill in all the test data you have accumulated we can start seeing what dose is going to be right for Buttons.

Your AMPS is the test number right before insulin
+1 is one hour after shot time
+2 is two hours after shot time
Etc.
PMPS is the test number right before evening insulin
U is number of units given at that time

 

Ahhh. Thank you. Was wondering wher the time was. I will get in it.

 

Some of the data will be off. I know his insulin wasn’t really good anymore. Old and degraded.

 

Yep! We use the +1, +2 etc because everyone here is in a different time zone, so 9:00 means something different to everyone. Let me know when you've filled it in and I'll take a peek!

Any data is good data! I think it will be helpful if you put in any important notes in the Remarks column on the far right - such as if you gave Vetsulin instead of Prozinc that day, or was told to give insulin at +6 (that's when the vet had you double dose him).

You have a lot of testing data which is very helpful.

 

Will do.

 

The spreadsheet has rows for all the days of 2020 i.e. starting from 01/01/2020. You can deleted the rows for the earlier dates if you don't have data. I can do that for you if you don't know how. Also, see my PM about your Signature.

 

Ok I’ll do that. Thank you. Here’s today’s news. Let me know if you think it’s going to fast.
8:31- 518
9:00- 2 unite prozinc.
10:24- 450
12:05 pm- 361

That’s 157 points in 3 hours. He had a few bites of cheese. A few laps of milk. And a push vile of high calorie.

 

Lower numbers, yay!! I think he's doing just fine. When does Buttons usually nadir (when is his BG the lowest during the day)? 5 hours after injection? 6? etc

Glad to hear he's getting something down him!

 

When I was testing him constantly. It was around 6-8 hours if I remember correctly. Got to where I only tested him before his shot. Most time he’d be around high 200s low to middle 300s before shot and food.

 

What a cute FACE!! He looks so cuddley!
How's his BG?

 

342 at 2:24. Going’s to the vet now. HE keeps looking around with wide eyes and crying. Did it this morning also. Checked him instantly. Wasn’t too low. Not sure what’s up. He’s constipated and looks bloated. Gonna take him in.

 

Good, like seeing better numbers. Let us know how the visit goes, hope he's okay.

 

Hi. It’s not his diabetes. Poor old guy is failing in many ways. I’ll come back and let you of know the car entails. Just gonna snuggle him for a bit.

 

Little guy has cancer.

 

I'm so sorry .

 

I'm so sorry James. Buttons and you are going through a lot.

 

Thank you. It’s not gonna take him away yet. We are gonna treat him some holistic ways. Have done it before. The issues it’s causing at the moment we are gonna treat. No operations or Kemo. In my experience that only tortures old cats. They barely make it past healing from the operation. But. Good news. It was bad insulin. The new insulin is working great. To great. Vet had him on more than he needed. Was at an 99 this morning. 20 mins later at an 80. Been through it before. Fed him some food with syrup. Slowly rose all day. He slept peacefully. Its now 9 hours later and he’s at 183. Vet wants me to lower dose obviously. I’m thinking if he isn’t in the hi numbers I’ll give him no shot at all. And test in the morning. You’ve been so helpful I felt comfy asking you about that. Thanks for all the support. Oh yeah. Vet had had me giving him 2 units morning and night the last two days. Too much.

 

I agree. I've never had a pet with cancer (knock on wood) but unless there's a high success rate with no quality of life lost after I wouldn't want to put any of them through chemo.

In other news that is excellent to hear! I'm glad you lowered the dose after that. Looks like you need some fine-tuning but you'll get there. As long as you're checking ketones when you skip I think you're good.

 

Thank you. He was well regulated on 1 in the morning. 1 at night. Even seems I shouldn’t start lowering that. Didn’t even think about freezing the insulin on accident. Used it after for weeks and weeks. Hopefully we can keep them levels good and it’s will make the rest way easier.

 

If his numbers were still good after it freezing it might have just been the fact that it was old? 5 months sounds like a bit of a stretch for Prozinc. I kept mine 3-4 months. So glad that was an easy fix for him. Yes, fingers crossed for Buttons!