HELLO! New here, and have questions about the Freestyle Libre meter.

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Paul Krebs, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. Paul Krebs

    Paul Krebs New Member

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    Jul 6, 2020
    I saw that there was a post here about the meter, and someone suggested that I start a new thread to improve visibility. All the videos, all the googling, I have yet to see anything about how to make sure im getting cat calibrated readings because the thing is for humans. Ive got one that im picking up after work today, along with the reader. It is being "installed" on Xavier tomorrow afternoon. The vet had never heard of the meter until i brought it up, and seems excited to see if it can help us get Xavier regulated. It seems the more Insulin he is given, the higher his glucose has spike when its time for the second shot of the day. Back to my original question. Does this thing have to be calibrated, do i have to "math" the results to interpret them? Any insights would be great, I know nothing about diabetes in cats, all i do know, is im not letting Xavier go down without one hell of a fight.
     
  2. Dusty & Roe

    Dusty & Roe Member

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    Apr 28, 2020
    Hi Paul all my vet did was to set the reader to Cat blood sugar levels . Really that was it . They also had a web page set up where the Vets office could check the numbers through out the day or night . Once the range was set I did Not have to calibrate any numbers .
     
  3. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Just what was "set" to cat blood?I did not find any such setting in the reader manual pgs 69 and 70 of the pdf (65 and 66 of the manual)
    https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1027736/Abbott-Freestyle-Libre.html?page=70#manual
    There is no such setting in the LivreView app on an iPhone.
    Is is a comparison of the Libre sensor and my human iHealth meter that I use for my Badger. Note that which read higher changed about halfway through the 14 day sensor life.
    BG comparison Libre JPG.jpg
     
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  4. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi Paul glad you started over with your own thread. It looks like its slow here today more people will be on in the evening. Can you share what kind of insulin Xavier is on? I can tag some folks that can explain better than I .
    @Deb & Wink
    @JanetNJ
    @Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Lets start with these. They are quite knowledgeable.

    Larry and Kitties I think uses this system.
    j.
     
  5. Dusty & Roe

    Dusty & Roe Member

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    Apr 28, 2020
    Paul what my Vet set was the range she said cats sugar levels should be . I believe the range she set it for was from 80 to 120 . That’s where she said a normal range was according to her.
    So she set the Libre reader for those numbers .
     
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  6. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    OK. The range shows up as red horizontal lines lines.
    In this forum 50-120 is considered "normal" when using a human meter.
     
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  7. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    I haven’t used a Freestyle Libre meter but the BG numbers you see when you read the meter do not need to be calibrated or changed. Most of us use human meters here and our dosing methods are based on human meters.
    The freestyle libre will only last 14 days at the most so I would think about home testing the BGs once the libre runs out.
    2 weeks on a libre is not going to get your cat regulated. The BGs change during the day every day and the only way to keep your kitty really safe ongoing is to home test.
    Using the libre for a couple of weeks in the beginning is fine but it is a bit expensive to continue with it.
    Good luck!
     
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  8. Paul Krebs

    Paul Krebs New Member

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    Jul 6, 2020
    Jeez, thanks for all the replies, yeah, i did set the meters range to 80-120 when i got it out to make sure it was charged and all that. His sugars are so high right now that his tissues arent healing from all the pricks and stuff, i had the vet call in for 4 meters and picked them up. I get them for 60 for 2, which, for an extra 10, replaces the 50 that the AT2 strips are (which is highway robbery). He will get down to about 360, but then sky rocket up to 6-700, last week he errored out the meter, twice. He is on 3 units of Vetsulin right now. But i guarantee that's going up, il be asking about that tomorrow. I have every reading that ive taken from him since day one, and it saeems the more insulin i give him, the higher his rebound numbers go. on one unit, his high was 580, on 3 units its near 700..Sorry for formatting and typos..cat is half on the keyboard..\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
     
  9. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Keep asking questions ;):)
     
  10. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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  11. Paul Krebs

    Paul Krebs New Member

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    Jul 6, 2020
    Whats bouncing? I will post a spreadsheet starting tomorrow, after last week, given the state of his ears, i had to call it when trying to do curves, he literally sounded like a small baby was screetching at the top of its lungs when i would prick him, its heart wrenching, he would still, by himself, come up on the counter and sit on the kitty mat i have placed there when he sees me getting his stuff out, knowing what was about to happen. He is good with getting the shots, and just thinks of it as part of his normal routine now. He doesnt react in the slightest to the needle, but the ear testing on his messed up ears had to been painful for him given his reaction. his ears looked like one big bruise and i had to give him a break, the only ones ive been doin is the day and night time tests. the monitor will go on him tomorow, and ill start posting the data here. he was diagnosed about 6 weeks ago. His weightloss has halted, he went from 18 to 14 in a week and a half time frame, which is how i knew something was wrong, i weigh the cats on the regular. What else, ive totally removed dry food from his diet, he gets only wet food, tried the glucose friendly science diet..He attempted to bury it..a few times. He really hasnt missed a beat in his day to day life, he has never shown any discomfort. Still an active happy in your face kinda guy like always. The ONLY symptom he has shown was the weightloss, AND the drinking and filling the litterbox with a gallon of pee. (he likes to hold until he pops, this goes for number two as well). The only change in behavior has been from him not wanting his ears messed with anymore, the reason his reactions get to me so much is, this cat, has NEVER had so much as an angry voice used towards him. He is the most trustful cat i have ever had, even the vet was amazed. She asked if he was always this laid back, and tolerant, because, she thought his tolerance towards some of her tests (blood, urine, and otherwise) was completely out of character for what she thought of as "normal" cat behavior and was worried until i told her, oh, no, he will let you do anything, he trusts people. He has begun cringing from me, and hiding, and not coming when i call him..he ALWAYS comes when called, like a doggo. I had to find something else to preserve his trust of people, and not fundamentally change who he is and how he views others. thats the toughest part of this whole thing for all of us, him included. That said, cost does not concern me, he has a blank check, im open to ANYTHING, no matter how inconvient or how much of a pain in the ass it can be for me. He deserves it. Hes had my back in a really dark time, and its my turn now. Sorry this turned to a rant..venting..lol..thanks guys.



































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  12. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    Paul are you giving Xavier a treat every time you test?
    Also could you set up your signature please. It’s also in the link I sent. It tells you what info to put in.

    Bouncing happens when the BG drops TOO LOW, TOO FAST or LOWER THAN HES USED TO OF LATE. His body sends out an sos. ... help! And it dumps stored glucose and regulatory hormones into the body making the BG skyrocket. Bounces can last for up to 6 cycles (3 Days). We need to see how low the insulin takes Zavier because if you are only testing Preshots you don’t see how low the insulin takes the BG. Bouncing is normal especially in newly cats.
    With Vetsulin it hits fairly fast and drops the BG then goes back up. It normally doesn’t last the 12 hours so you will get higher numbers. Lantus is a much better insulin for cats.
     
  13. Paul Krebs

    Paul Krebs New Member

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    Jul 6, 2020
    I'll ask the vet tomorrow about that. Out of the 4 curves that I have done, his lowest number was 320. And that was on 2 units. Sorry about not having everything set up yet..its been a coaster today. And I only found you guys today as well. (Also have 5 other critters, one of which needs daily meds because of her heart, so I've been a bit busy) I'll get that all squared away tomorrow. I'm a bit scattered right now because I've been going it alone and had no one to talk these things over with. Here's his last curve, these are 2 hours apart, at 3 units. Starting at 6 am.
    6 am 626
    8am 381
    10am 447
    Noon 436
    2pm 564
    4pm 530 (tested twice, same result)
    6 pm 582

    Then he had his shot.

    The one before at 2 units, again 2 hours apart.

    6am 579
    8am 456
    10am 485
    Noon 522
    2pm 494
    4pm 549
    6pm 585

    The next day after that because of the unexpected spike and then lowering from noon till 2 I checked him a few more times

    6 am 492
    8am 379
    10am 364

    I have the whole thing..I'm on mobile right now, just trying to give you some numbers. I will square this away after I get him to the vet after work tomorrow and have had his sensor installed on him. Again, many thanks.

    Forgot to add, over the last week though, he made the meter say HI and has been at a consistent 620 to 700 BG. At the time of his shots in the evening.

    Another edit: no, treats have ceased. He gets a quarter can of a fancy feast tuna Tuscany as a treat when I do this, it's his favorite that I had to stop giving him because he would eat himself sick on it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
  14. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    Remember bounces can last 3 days so if you are seeing constantly high numbers it could be a bounce.
    So glad you found us!!

    Also we recommend increasing in 1/4 unit increments not 1 unit increments As you can go past the best dose. Also much safer.
    Keep asking questions!
    Looking forward to seeing the SS and signature.
     
  15. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    Looking at those numbers you posted... the drop from 626 to 381 in 2 hours is enough to cause a bounce. Are you feeding during the cycle as well as before the shots?
    A small meal at +1 would help slow that drop.
     
  16. Paul Krebs

    Paul Krebs New Member

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    Jul 6, 2020
    Man you guys..on the ball! Yes. Here is the routine..
    I wake up at 530 and am smothered buy a wave of cats demanding a cuddle puddle.

    550 make it out of the bed and begin meal prep and put Xaviers accoutrements out.

    555 he jumps up on the counter and I get his first test and give him his "treat" food.

    6am he gets his shot as he is scarfing said treat. The rest of the wet food ends up at the feeding area

    6am to 615 no joke he has to eat EVERY variety I put done. Everyone likes something different except for him, he likes it all and must eat from every dish without exception.

    I put out 3 cans for the 6 cats. This for the most part is what they have till the evening. I leave them until they are gone. Might last till noon.

    My 7th old lady cat, is a holdout and will only eat dry food. I make damn sure Xavier has limited access to this, but every once in a while he will seize the opportunity and eat a bit before I catch him and make him spit out whatever is in his mouth. I know how bad this stuff is for him.

    Once per day they get 5 of the friskies temptation cat treats, normally mid day when I get home from work. Although with him, I try to not give them to him, I'll try to give him the treat food from above..

    Edit: when I say for the most part, if sad clown is begging for his food ( other cats will eat it on him because he doesnt like to eat first thing in the morning) I'll set down another can of his for him.

    Re edit: Due to DMs Sad Clown is not a pet name for Xavier, Sad Clown is a completely different cat, and yes that is his actual name.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
  17. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    With vetsulin it is important that you feed Xavier 20 to 30 minutes before the insulin dose.
    He needs to have food aboard to stop those big drops in the BG otherwise you won’t be able to help stop the bouncing.
    Also diabetic cats do much better when they can have several small snacks during the cycles (am and pm).
    If I were you I would make sure he is fed 30 minutes before the shot then I would give another snack at +1 if he’ll eat it and another at +3 and +5.
    The idea is to give the food when the insulin is working hardest to bring down the BG and to stop any big drops.
    I can see it might be hard with all your cats wanting food at the same time but I would really try and change the feeding schedule to something similar to what I suggest.
    Here is a copy of the guide to vetsulin
    https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/
     
  18. Paul Krebs

    Paul Krebs New Member

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    Jul 6, 2020
    that, is super good to know, this whole time, ive been trying to get his BG BEFORE he eats, thinking, that will foul up the test, ive made it a point that NO ONE can eat anything until Xavier has had his test and shot. Would it be ok to give him those temptations cat treats a few times throughout the day? or are they to bad carby for him?
    if i offer him snacks, he will go for them, this guy never refuses a tasty treat, he is a lover of food. to the point that i was damned sure i did this to him by letting him have whatever he wants, whenever he wants. Again, i leave the food out, so they can eat when they want, pretty much free grazing because there are so many rescues untill its gone, and if they really ask for it i put more out during the day (sometimes the do, sometimes they leave half of what i gave them in the morning out till its time for fresh food at night. there really is no rhyme or reason to it with them.

    I will begin tomorrow with feeding him before give him his shot. Should i test before or after i let him eat? all i was told was, before you give him the shot, test to make sure he isnt too low. i was never advised (that i can recall) to test hime before or after he ate.

    You are a great help, i really need to get to bed, but i keep finding myself checking here before i go..lol..i will keep checking too for the answer to that one, i want to know if ive been testing him at the wrong time..this has been the most help ive had since the diagnosis. thanks.
     
  19. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    The routine is test, feed and wait 30 minutes then give the shot in that order with vetsulin.
    How many carbs do the temptations have? You dont want to be giving him high carb treats unless he’s dropped low otherwise you will be sending the BG higher.
    Can you find another low carb treat he can have? Some people give the airdried low carb treats. Or cut up small pieces of cooked chicken. Just freeze it all flat, bag it and get out each day
    It’s great having a good eater for a diabetic cat. Sheba was also a good eater. Much harder when they don’t want to eat.
     
  20. Paul Krebs

    Paul Krebs New Member

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    Jul 6, 2020
    That's one thing I've tried with him, I have the other sick kitty with a heart problem. She is the only one that will eat fresh chicken breast. I keep a bag on hand for her..unfortunately he is not interested in it. I'm not sure of the carb count, I wish they would la let them for that (I'm a keto freak). Any suggestions for low carb cat treats that may be off the shelf?
     
  21. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    I live in Australia so I have no idea what is available overseas. But you could start another thread with the subject line “ideas for low carb treats in US/UK “or where you are living. There are no carbs in Plain chicken.
     
  22. Paul Krebs

    Paul Krebs New Member

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    Jul 6, 2020
    Just want to say i havent forgotten about you guys, its meen a hectic couple of says, got the sensor, got it put on him and its sending data. im still getting the hangof trying to get the data presentable, but just gonna drop these here, this was his first day. Where the meter says HI i went ahead and tested with a strip. It started at 555. on the overnight chart, at round 4am i scanned him because i woke up and he was curled up next to me, His BG was high again, but when i woke up for the day areound 6, his BG had dropped on its own. I have replaced his dry food with the hills science diet glucose support, but he still insists on his normal wet food. I think these charts are out of order, but they are accurate. i DID go alittle crazy with the scanner because i thought it was neat. Are these sensors something you guys put on the cat yourself? or do you take the critter to the vet. Im just wondering because in the event something happens here (I live in orlando Florida, you never know here, been tornados and riots here and now its coming to hurricane season) , and i need to get one on him is that something that could safely be done at home. Thanks guys..Im at work now and will sort out my SIG asap. just wanted to send a quick note and a heartfelt THANK YOU!
     

    Attached Files:

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  23. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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    Oct 27, 2015
    Hi Paul
    Regarding treats
    Don't know the % but they are high. I've seen big difference in BG when CG has stopped using them. I would ditch the temptations.

    I use cosma and orijen freeze dried treats.
    Orijen is available in US, my cats go crazy for it. But I believe there are other options in US, (I live in Spain)
     
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  24. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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    Oct 27, 2015
    He's a clever kitty. Wet food is much better for him than the kibble.
    I was also given a diabetic kibble, and I ditched that after coming to this board.

    You don't need a diabetic Rx food, but what you do need is a low carb wet food.

    What is his usual wet food?
     
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  25. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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    Oct 27, 2015
    I can't find it on the charts, but I am pretty sure this will be higher than 10% carb (probably very high), George was given Hills Diabetic Rx food and that had 35% carbs.
    If he prefers wet I would just feed him wet and ditch the dry altogether, not only will wet food (if you pick the right food) be low in carbs, but wet food is just overall better for any cat.
    I have one diabetic cat and four civies, they are all on a low carb wet diet. (George, my diabetic also has ckd so he is on a low Phosphorous diet, I won't have kibble in the house because George will sniff it out and he will get into it, and invariably it adversely affects his BG)
    Anecdotally when we were away on vacation, he got into one of the outdoor cats kibble, he went from 90 to 500 I think it nearly gave my petsitter a coronary, it took a couple of days to get out of his system, he's in remission from his diabetes now and is diet controlled.

    Here is a link to the Post by Vet/feline nutritionist, Dr Lisa
    https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...r-more-than-just-carbohydrate-content.175004/

    and here is the food chart in different formats
    https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...m6PPfEUz9YmzMGMxkmcBk6uRR0/edit#gid=113878384
    https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

    If/when you Switch your guy to a Low Carb diet do it slowly. The impact in BG can be tremendous, we had one member who went from 5u BID to OTJ (off the Juice) in 24 hrs, diabetic kitty was on LC wet diet, but the big change came when all the dry food was ditched from the house, so even though CG never caught her sugarcat eating the kibble, he obviously was getting into it.

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=114022
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AqyJS-ud54lgdHU2S2FwczByM3YwU2JjRFduOWJLUHc&output=html

    Feb 19 2014 is when kibble was removed from the house.

    Of the folk I have seen using these sensors, they all seem to go to the vets for this. That said most of us use hand held monitors and we prick their ears to check.
    If you prefer the Libre Sensor, you should probably still get familiar with the regular hand held/ear prick method, as a back up. (it seems you have been able to get some regular readings using your hand held glucometer).
     
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  26. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

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    Oct 27, 2015
    BTW
    The amount of data you get with that scanner is mind boggling. The best way for you to get feedback on that data is to input it into the SS when you get a chance.
    It's the tool we all use to track BG patterns in our Sugarcat, it just makes life much easier particularly for those of us that are helping any number of cats at one time, it's just quicker, and the quicker we can make an assessment the more sweet kitties we can help.
    Thanks
     
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  27. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    ABSOLUTELY! Its extra work for you but in the long run, WELL worth it. ;)
     
  28. Paul Krebs

    Paul Krebs New Member

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    Jul 6, 2020
    Normal food is Friskies Tasty treasures, seafood bake, he eats fancy feast, all types. I try to keep a variety on hand so they dont get picky. I saw the hiss glucose control wet food, but he didn't like it a bit, this is the only time Ive EVER seen a whole can go into the feeding are and not a single cat ate it. i just added some of the Orijen cat treats to my Amazon cart, ill give those a try for him. He is off the temptations. He will accept the glucose control hard food as a "treat". I know Wet is way better, i just have a few old holds out that prefer dryfood.
     
  29. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Its actually not that its way better its that dry is that...well...bad. I totally get about the hold outs! That makes it doubly hard. Good luck.!

    I have heard that "Young Again" dry food does have lower carbs also Dr Easleys...nt sure of the name OR the spelling. Maybe give that a try???
    j.
     
  30. Paul Krebs

    Paul Krebs New Member

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    Jul 6, 2020
    Gotcha, i know its bad, the one real hold out on it is a blimp. but she is 17 and stuck in her ways and i prefer not to fight her. I did just find the cat food chart from catinfo.

    Whats a decent range of carb percentage to stay in, and whats a "throw it out or save it for a hypo episode" and Phosporus count, whats that number for?

    I blindly ordered a case of tiki cat from amazon few hours ago, and just found out according to the chart, there are ZERO carbs in that stuff..You guys are pointing me in directions that i hadnt thought to look.
     
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  31. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Any food thats 10% carbs or lower. On the dry? I just dont know but others here do. The Low phos I'm not sure on I think anything under 5% but wait for more replies on that (I really should know these answers) :oops:

    Hold on for more replies.;):coffee:
    j
     

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