Help - feeling discouraged

M

mike vanderlan

Member
Hi there, my diabetic cat recently switched from lantis to vetsulin. We were not having much luck with the lantis - he was on 5 units twice daily. Started vetsulin last week at 2 units twice daily which I thought sounded weird - why such a low dose?

Just took him to the vet and his level is at 440. Was told the vet will call tomorrow. Should I just immediately boost him back to 5 units twice a day?

Anyone have experience with switching insulin and having positive results??

It's been almost a year and we have never been able to get him under control and I'm feeling very depressed.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!
 
It is nearly impossible to get a cat into better blood glucose numbers when they’re eating dry, high carb food. Purina DM WET food is about 6 percent carbs and so is okay to feed a diabetic cat (needs to be under 10 percent carbs.)

That may be factoring into why you were not seeing any improvement with Lantus, which is a far better insulin than Vetsulin for a cat. The American Animal Hospital Association no longer even recommends using insulin for cats.
 
I am very sorry that you have been at this for such a long time with no results and, it sounds like, no competent help from the vet who may be a very good vet in other respects but is probably just not equipped to manage a diabetic cat. I understand what it is like. I spent many months with my cat in high numbers that did not respond to insulin. It was only after I came here and started posting and listening that we finally made progress. I only wish we had come here sooner as I wasted so much time and it hurt my boy.
 
Can you get a spreadsheet set up and a signature and get a meter to test your kitty so that you can know what his blood glucose is doing? Without that, we are all blind and can’t make any dosing decisions without a substantial risk to his health. I’m going to tag a lovely woman who can help with all of that.
 
mike vanderlan said:
He just spent a day at the vets being monitored. That was when they decided to switch insulins.
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I know this must be frustrating for you. I really feel for you. I’m sorry. I am definitely not trying to be negative, but I so hope that your special cat can get into better numbers. When I say I can understand your frustration and worry, I am not just blowing smoke! My cat got up to well over 40 units of insulin before he finally started to come down. He had a high dose condition that made him resistant to insulin. I am not saying that your cat will need a high dose. I am only saying that I can sympathize with your frustration and worry and being perplexed about why his numbers are still high. But I would need to see some numbers to have an idea of what is going on. As for insulin. I started with Vetsulin, moved to ProZinc, them Lantus, and finally Levemir.
 
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our membepdf

have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help

Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
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6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for aboutsugar
econds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
Take a look at the lancets ,you will see one side points up, that's the side you want to poke with
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
You can also put a thin layer of vaseline on the ear ,to help the blood bead up
A video one of our members posted
VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar
She is using a pet meter the test strips are very expensive with a human meter you don't have to code anything

Here is the food chart, most feed 6% carbs and under
newlink:http://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

Most members feed Fancy Feast Classic Pates or Friskies

More home testing tips and vids:

Home testing links and tips


I see you said you are not home testing ,it's very important you start to home test
Here is the link for the meter and test strips so you don't have to search for them
Relion Premier Classic Meter at Walmart for 9 dollars
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103

The tests strips are 17.88 for 100
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-100-Count/575088197

If not any human meter will be fine

@mike vanderlan
 
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Where did you see the 45% number? All I could find was 4-6% fiber?
When he was on lantus his number was consistently 330-340. That was at 5 units twice a day.

Thanks again for all the help.

I’ve had 2 vets tell me the dry food should be okay for diabetics.
 
mike vanderlan said:
Where did you see the 45% number? All I could find was 4-6% fiber?
When he was on lantus his number was consistently 330-340. That was at 5 units twice a day.

Thanks again for all the help.

I’ve had 2 vets tell me the dry food should be okay for diabetics.
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I googled it and sometimes on the Chewy site people will ask questions
I would suggest you call Royal Canin and ask them to give the the as feed carb and the dry matter carbs.
I don't agree with the 2 vets at all
Almost all dry food is too high in carbs for diabetic cats

The only kibble that is lower in carbs is Dr Elsey's and Young again

More info
If you live in the US
Here are some low carb dry foods ,they are about 5 or 6% carbs
None of them are cheap
You need to order them online they are not cheap
Dr Elseys you can buy on chewey site
https://www.chewy.com/dr-elseys-cleanprotein-chicken/dp/146269?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12791446238&utm_content=Dr. Elsey's&utm_term=&show-search=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0PvU2Zj79wIVRIdbCh3JawEkEAQYASABEgIInfD_BwE

Young again on their web site
https://www.youngagainpetfood.com
Take a look at the young again zero or the zero mature

Dr Elsey's also at Walmart
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dr-Elsey...ViI3ICh0suwO_EAQYAiABEgJrOPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Dr Elsey's Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FCJHDPR/ref=twister_B09GHFJY65?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

the Dr Elsey's comes in different size bags
None of these can be bought in stores

Also
Wysong Epigen 90

If you call they will send you samples
Phone: 877-311-2287… Dr Elsey's

PHONE:
800.311.6646. Young Again

1-800-748-0188 •Wysong Epigen 90
 
But regardless of which type of food he is eating, if you are feeding any dry food to him other than Dr. Elsey’s CleanProtein and You g Again Zero Mature, there are so many carbs in there that his BG will not often go down. Carbs raise blood glucose. Carbs wear off. Cats BG goes down. Feed more carbs. Cat’s BG goes up. It’s a yoyo cycle. Add a harsh insulin that is not a good insulin for cats into the mix and who knows what will happen.
 
I am surprised that your vets don’t know that Vetsulin is not recommended for use in cats.

Since you are using it, please feed him 1/2 hour before giving the insulin injection. Vetsulin hits hard and can drop BG very fast. It has very short longevity in a cat though. I wish they would at least have given you ProZinc, but again, if he’s eating a high carb diet, then blood glucose will not get regulated well at all.
 
This has all been horribly upsetting. I have a cat that I’ve been told needs to be on that royal canin dry food due to urinary crystals. 2 vets told me it is fine for my diabetic cat only to find out that is not the case.

my current vet just switched the insulin to what seems to be an inferior one at a lower dose than he was on.
 
Okay. I just wanted to make
mike vanderlan said:
This has all been horribly upsetting. I have a cat that I’ve been told needs to be on that royal canin dry food due to urinary crystals. 2 vets told me it is fine for my diabetic cat only to find out that is not the case.

my current vet just switched the insulin to what seems to be an inferior one at a lower dose than he was on.
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I just hope that you can get a meter and start learning how to test. We can help you. That’s the only way we can know what his blood glucose is doing and if he is at a safe dose. Maybe the vet lowered the dose because he did realize that Vetsulin can drop them really hard and fast? I am only speculating since I don’t know what the vet was thinking. I do know that vets get very little training in managing diabetes and it’s mostly about dogs — they only get an hour or so on diabetes management apparently— and very little on nutrition too — -although the big companies know how to sell them on their products. This vet may be excellent in many other respects, but I do not feel you are getting the best advice for your diabetic cat right now.
 
Any testing meters you recommend? I just started looking in chewy….

if I’m able to remove the dry food any idea how soon his number will come down?

I’m not sure what to about my other cat who has crystals, though
 
mike vanderlan said:
Any testing meters you recommend? I just started looking in chewy….

if I’m able to remove the dry food any idea how soon his number will come down?

I’m not sure what to about my other cat who has crystals, though
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Is there a way to feed them separately? Do they eat at specific meal times or just have the dry food down all day.
 
As for meters. The best one to get is one of the ReliOn meters from Walmart. The test strips are reasonably priced at $17.88 for 100 strips. Those are quite reliable meters and many members on this Board use them.
 
And transitioning from high carb to lower carb food can have an immediate effect on lowering BG. I would not change his diet until you get a meter and are able to test — because I don’t want his numbers to drop dangerously low without the impact of the carbs. We have to make food changes to lower carb carefully.
 
It's true it would be a lot easier if you used a human meter as the dosing protocols here are based on human meters. We do know how to make some accommodation for those using the Alpha Trak though (but those strips are really expensive and if your cat is in a hypo or near hypo situation, or just managing lower numbers, you can go through a lot of strips all at once.) Before there ever were pet meters invented, everybody used human meters. You have a lot of vets now recommending the Freestyle Libre continuous glucose monitor for cats now -- and that is obviously a human monitor (although not technically a blood monitor as it measures interstitial fluid glucose.)
 
mike vanderlan said:
Ok, scrolled up and saw the recommended meter. I can try feeding separately although I have 4 cats and they all graze the dry food.
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I understand about having multiple cats. That is a problem about them all eating that dry food though. I am not sure what to say about that because I know your cat with urinary crystals needs to eat the special food (although feeding dry food, which is inherently dehydrating, to a cat with any kind of crystals problem really makes no sense to me -- I would think they'd offer that food in a canned/wet food form with the formulation that prevents the crystals.)
 
Ok, I picked up the dry food and will try to figure that out. Bought the meter but have had no luck drawing blood. Pricked my own finger so I know it works. Just no blood coming from his ear
 
@Diane Tyler's Mom I've got to get off the Board for a while now and can you give Mike all the tips and tricks to help get started ... sweet spot, warming ear, lancet size, etc.

Mike, I hope your blood sugar was okay ;) It's probably your blood pressure we need to worry about ... with all this stress!
 
Oh. I went back up in the thread and I see Diane already shared some of the testing tips and the photo of the sweet spot above. It takes a while. It can be challenging at first and you feel like you’re never going to succeed at it. Be sure to give a treat after every test - even failed attempts at a test. Many people use the Pure Bites freeze dried chicken for that - or boiled chicken cut into cubes — anything low carb.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Oh. I went back up in the thread and I see Diane already shared some of the testing tips and the photo of the sweet spot above. It takes a while. It can be challenging at first and you feel like you’re never going to succeed at it. Be sure to give a treat after every test - even failed attempts at a test. Many people use the Pure Bites freeze dried chicken for that - or boiled chicken cut into cubes — anything low carb.
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Hi Suzanne sorry I wasn't around, just got on now, glad you saw/I already gave him the info. :cat:
 
Hi Mike, I tried my Alfie's first ear prick yesterday. The needle poked through, but no blood came out. I left it at that...will try another day. Ugh.
Today, I watched a video that someone posted of the ear prick and it showed that they gently massaged the ear for a few seconds AFTER the prick...on both sides of the prick. I remembered that my vet also did this, but I forgot. Today I tried the prick again, massaged the ear and here it came...a beautiful little red ball of blood. Voila!
 
Conbon L. said:
Hi Mike, I tried my Alfie's first ear prick yesterday. The needle poked through, but no blood came out. I left it at that...will try another day. Ugh.
Today, I watched a video that someone posted of the ear prick and it showed that they gently massaged the ear for a few seconds AFTER the prick...on both sides of the prick. I remembered that my vet also did this, but I forgot. Today I tried the prick again, massaged the ear and here it came...a beautiful little red ball of blood. Voila!
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Thanks for sharing that. We call that milking the ear. It can help especially at first when their ears don’t bleed as easily. Good job!
 
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