High and Low chart

Like for blood sugar? In regards to a human meter, 50-120 is normal. Below 50 those are (potential) hypoglycemic numbers.
 
So on a human meter 50-120 is what I'm shooting for each day?
For instance...my cat is 29lbs. Vet has prescribed 3u vetsulin 2x a day every 12 hours and after meal time.
I've just tapered him to a 100% FF pate wet food diet. Today is day 1. He was 196 right after food this morning. Shot him after 30 minutes and 4.5 hours later he was 26. Tonight he was 146 before meal time. Will test him in a few minutes which will be 30 minutes after his meal. What if he's now under 120? Would I still shoot and i
f so how much?
 
Whoa okay, please PLEASE lower that dose. 26 is way WAY too low. On Vetsulin you don't want drops under 90, that could have killed him today.

When did your kitty start insulin? 3u is way too much, max to start is 1u.
Starting out you do not want to shoot any number lower than 200. Vetsulin drops cats hard and fast (as you've seen) so you have to be careful with it. Please skip the shot tonight, he's too low.
 
A few things for you:

I'm assuming by the sound of it you're testing, feeding, and waiting 30 minutes before insulin, as should be done. You do not have to test again because the number will actually go up because of the food.

With Vetsulin you want to test early and often to keep him safe. One hour after his shot, two hours after, three hours after. IF he is showing signs of dropping a lot. Vetsulin drops kitty's BG quickly and then wears off quickly. Long-lasting insulin such as Prozinc or Lantus last the full 12 hours, Vetsulin rarely does.

Please do not dose more than 1u right now, I am so glad you are testing, that 26 could have killed him. If you get under 200 at testing time, do not give insulin at all, skip the shot until 12 hours later. He has to be high enough to need insulin. We have another kitty here just recently who was giving 3u as well and was dropping way too much and they weren't testing because their vet said not to bother. Luckily they noticed him dropping too low and he's actually be over a week with no insulin so far.

We have a spreadsheet you can set up (or if it's too confusing a mod will be happy to do it for you!) so you can share your kitty's numbers and we can help keep him safe.

Spreadsheet Instructions
 
Everything she just said!!

I don't want to scare you but since everything turned out OK, at 26, a lot of cats would be having seizures.

Please do not shoot if under 200 until you learn more about how your insulin works and what to expect.
 
Having my weekly FDMB heart attack right here, Chris! :eek:

Monica, since you haven't seen my message yet and I imagine it's past test time, if you DID give insulin please feed him some high-carb food multiple times tonight and check him often. Insulin is meant to bring a kitty down INTO 50-120 range. Giving insulin when they're already near that is life-threatening. High-carb food is often any kind of gravy food. If you have any dry you could feed that too but I would recommend going to the store and getting gravy food ASAP.
 
Panic said:
A few things for you:

I'm assuming by the sound of it you're testing, feeding, and waiting 30 minutes before insulin, as should be done. You do not have to test again because the number will actually go up because of the food.

With Vetsulin you want to test early and often to keep him safe. One hour after his shot, two hours after, three hours after. IF he is showing signs of dropping a lot. Vetsulin drops kitty's BG quickly and then wears off quickly. Long-lasting insulin such as Prozinc or Lantus last the full 12 hours, Vetsulin rarely does.

Please do not dose more than 1u right now, I am so glad you are testing, that 26 could have killed him. If you get under 200 at testing time, do not give insulin at all, skip the shot until 12 hours later. He has to be high enough to need insulin. We have another kitty here just recently who was giving 3u as well and was dropping way too much and they weren't testing because their vet said not to bother. Luckily they noticed him dropping too low and he's actually be over a week with no insulin so far.

We have a spreadsheet you can set up (or if it's too confusing a mod will be happy to do it for you!) so you can share your kitty's numbers and we can help keep him safe.

Spreadsheet Instructions
Click to expand...
Panic said:
A few things for you:

I'm assuming by the sound of it you're testing, feeding, and waiting 30 minutes before insulin, as should be done. You do not have to test again because the number will actually go up because of the food.

With Vetsulin you want to test early and often to keep him safe. One hour after his shot, two hours after, three hours after. IF he is showing signs of dropping a lot. Vetsulin drops kitty's BG quickly and then wears off quickly. Long-lasting insulin such as Prozinc or Lantus last the full 12 hours, Vetsulin rarely does.

Please do not dose more than 1u right now, I am so glad you are testing, that 26 could have killed him. If you get under 200 at testing time, do not give insulin at all, skip the shot until 12 hours later. He has to be high enough to need insulin. We have another kitty here just recently who was giving 3u as well and was dropping way too much and they weren't testing because their vet said not to bother. Luckily they noticed him dropping too low and he's actually be over a week with no insulin so far.

We have a spreadsheet you can set up (or if it's too confusing a mod will be happy to do it for you!) so you can share your kitty's numbers and we can help keep him safe.

Spreadsheet Instructions
Click to expand...
 
Oh I'm so, so glad. I was really worried about you two. I'll be looking forward to hear how he looks in the morning.

If I'm not online then, remember - no insulin if he's under 200.
Please do NOT give 3u anymore. 1u max, no matter how high his BG is in the morning.

It is possible that his BG will be very very high in the morning, both because of not having insulin overnight and from the very low numbers he had today - this is totally normal. The no insulin part is self-explanatory but when a cat drops very low, or drops too fast (which your kitty did BOTH), the body often reacts by dumping extra sugar into the bloodstream as a way to save itself from danger. We never give more insulin just because the pre-shot test is high.

Now that my heart has stopped beating so hard ... hello and welcome to FDMB. :) My name is Elizabeth. What's your kitty's name?
 
Thank you so much!!!! My name is Monica and my sugarbaby is Henry. He's 15 years old and recently disgnosed DM 1 month ago.
He was 116 after meal time last night so I did not shoot.
He's 130 this morning before food so I'm not going to shoot him this am either.
I'll test about 9am PST to see where he is after meal time.
I super appreciate your time and help!
 
Awww Henry! :cat:

So glad you found us, Henry's numbers do not seem to need insulin hardly, if any? I'm retracting my suggestion of 1u if he is over 200 at shot-time, let's make it 0.5u IF he needs it ... fingers crossed he stays this way though! If your syringes don't have half unit marks you just eyeball it.

Can I ask how Henry was diagnosed? Was he showing any signs of hunger/thirst or excessive peeing? How did he get diagnosed - was a fructosamine performed or did your vet just take his blood sugar at the clinic? Was he sick or need a dental done? On any steroids? A lot of these things can elevate BG without actually being diabetic, so I am wondering if your vet jumped the gun on this. Was yesterday Henry's first day on insulin or just first day on Fancy Feast?
 
He had been peeing excessively for quite some time but I didn't think much of it. He was also going outside of his box multiple times a week and 1x in the corner of my room which is completely odd behavior. I finally decided he needed to go to the vet. They did a urine sample and he had elevate glucose levels and what appeared to be a UTI. We then did a full blood panel and everything came back normal except his glucose levels. Said he was over 500. That weekend he stayed the night Friday, Saturday and Sunday to get him regulated. I picked him up that Monday 8/3/2020 and they said 3u Vetsulin 2x day, every 12 hours after meal time was what he needed. I have been giving him this much but I feel like he was just sleeping so much. We never treated him for the UTI.

He was diagnosed with FLUTD back in 2007 and has been on C/D then to S/O diet for the last 13 years. At the recommendation of this group I slowly transition him from that food to 100% wet food, Fancy Feast Pate. This is day 2 of 100% wet food only.
This is also day 2 of multiple times of day home testing. My vet hasn't been much help. He does/did not want me to change his food but I have anyways. They weren't concerned with Henry being home testing, said it isn't necessary, but that I could if I wanted but I didn't need to do it multiple times a day and that they'd prefer if I take him in for testing (which stresses him out, he hates the vet and is very vocal about it)

I want to ask for different insulin but I'm worried they'll shut me down. I love our vet but not for this issue.
I really appreciate your time and help.

BTW, he was 112 after food today.
 
It's a shame he wasn't recommended a wet food diet for FLUTD! The wet will do him good for both diabetes and FLUTD. You can also add some water to the Fancy Feast to increase water intake, if he'll allow it. Some cats are finicky about how soupy they want their food haha.

It definitely sounds like the wet food has improved his BG immensely. Perhaps Henry can be diet-controlled. :)

Monica Johnson said:
I want to ask for different insulin but I'm worried they'll shut me down. I love our vet but not for this issue.
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I would recommend sharing this 2018 Diabetes Management Guidelines For Dogs and Cats. Very clearly states that the recommended insulin for cats is Prozinc or Lantus, not Vetsulin.

This article also touches on the relationship between veterinarians and caregivers, mainly pointing out that the majority of caregivers are disappointed with their vets for not recommending a low-carb, wet diet or encouraging home-testing.

If they say no, you can always ask for reference material (articles, studies) that back up their claims that Vetsulin is more suitable for cats. They won't find anything that could override the AAHA Guidelines. It's nice that you like your vet, and it can make it a little harder too I know, but Henry's health is priority. A lot of us have switched vets in order to find someone that would work with us. And not to imply that going behind your vet's back is an option but ... our Supply Closet often has Prozinc and Lantus for sale from other members.

I hope Henry's numbers stay down on the food change though! :) 112 is an excellent number.
How about one more thing (am looking forward to seeing your spreadsheet once it's ready) - if he skips another shot, test him a couple hours after he eats. If the numbers go down on their own that's an indication of pancreatic activity!
 
pancreatic activity? is good right?
He was 189 this am before food.
He was 108 last night but I don't remember if that was before or after meal time.
I fell ill and yesterday was rough.
This is now the 4th shot missed......
 
Yes, it's very good! :) It sounds like the Fancy Feast is doing him a world of good too.

He sounds like he's doing really well! Keep watching him, 189 is on the high side for a cat not on insulin but it's very very good still.
Do you need help setting up your spreadsheet? I would love to see everything compiled together so we can keep monitoring him on this (potential) off the juice trial.

So sorry you're not feeling well. :bighug: Hope today you feel a little better!
 
I am feeling like a human today. Thanks for checking.
Henry isn't though. He was 286 this am before food. Was 206 2 hrs after food so I gave him a shot 1u (should have done a half :/) as he was 65 3 hours after shot. I haven't even thought about the spreadsheet because when I did look I have to create a google spreadsheet which I have access to do but haven't had the time.
 
Well at least his pancreas is still showing signs of working, it just may need a liiiittle more help. @Deb & Wink we don't have a spreadsheet up yet but Henry's been OTJ due to low blues for a few days and this morning was higher, do you have dose recommendations for him when he's over 200?

Monica, when Henry drops below 90 (IF you've given insulin, you don't have to worry about it if he hasn't had his shot) you want to feed him some high-carb wet food ... if you're feeling up to it, I suggest getting some cans of Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers to offer him. Check every 15-20 minutes and offer small portions (a tsp or so) of food until he's over 90. Then stop feeding, and check in an hour to make sure he's still up. Normally we'd do the snacks with just low-carb food but because Henry is on Vetsulin and really seems like he wants to be off the juice (insulin) it might be safer to just stick with higher-carb in those instances. I think if you're really on top of this right now we can get him off insulin soon. Work hard right now so you can say goodbye to the needle!

@Chris & China (GA) and @Bandit's Mom are helping out with spreadsheets, once you feel up to it you can send them a private message and they'll get that done for you if you like.

Glad you're feeling better! :)
 
Ok got it. That makes sense. Instead of shooting, start with a few more carbs. I'll be sure to pick up a few gravy boats for him to have on hand.
 
Monica Johnson said:
Instead of shooting, start with a few more carbs.
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Not quite - if you do give insulin because he is high (over 200), but the insulin is dropping him below 90 (like it did today) you give the high carbs to bump him up to safety. :) Then post here and we'll help you decrease the dose next time.
 
Agreed, diabetes is so tricky. Can't wait for the day they have a safer method than insulin injections.
 
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