Hills Prescription Cat Food?

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cetrax

cetrax

Member Since 2015
Hello. I discover my cat has been diagnosed with diabetes. So of course I am overwhelmed, scared and believing everything my vet is telling me.

She sells me a bag of Hills dry food, and Hills canned food. I go home. Time to educated myself on cat diabetes! While doing this I learn Hills is not good? Cat's need their food to be under 10% carbs and Hill is high in carbs.

I take the online advice and begin the progress of transitioning my cat to wet food (Friskies Classic). By the way before this happened I had no idea dry food was bad for cats! Lol..

I go to the vet this morning to get my cat's BG tested. I share with her what I have learned. I told her I read online that it is high in carbs and a diabetic cat needs to eat food that has under 10% carbs. She shook her head. She said Hills does have carbs but it is high in protein and I have seen plenty of animals get "regulated" and be able to come off of insulin by eating this food. Then she said you can't believe everything you read online. Aggghhh...

So who is correct here. My vet the so called "degree educated expert" or the people who live with and love their cats? My bet is on us but I would appreciate to here what everyone thinks about this.

Thanks, Steve...

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The Hills canned is OK but is expensive and necessary.
The dry Hill is ok if your cat will not eat canned but there are lower-carb, commercial food like Evo Turkey Cat and Kitten or Young Again Zero carb.
I feed mine Friskies and Fancy Feast canned and Evo dry for those that do not eat canned.
 
Hills canned prescription is still too high in carbs for a diabetic cat. The Purina prescription food for diabetic cats is ok but pricy and unnecessary--it's pretty much Fancy Feast in a different can. I wouldn't recommend any dry foods for a diabetic cat unless you have no other choice but to feed them (i.e. the cat would rather starve than eat canned and you tried everything you could: http://catinfo.org/docs/TipsForTransitioning1-14-11.pdf).

There's a list of commercial foods here, with their protein, fat, and carb contents listed: http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf. You just need to pick a food off the list that you can afford and is less than 10% carbs.

Many vets have not kept up to date with the current nutrition recommendations for cats (diabetic or not). They have a financial incentive to sell prescription foods and the pet food companies marketing the foods are feeding them information that suits their (the pet food companies') needs and not necessarily the needs of the animals. There's nothing scientific about prescription foods--if you ask your vet to explain how the protein/fat/carb content differs nutritionally than commercial foods, she won't be able to. Doesn't mean she's a bad vet--just that she's not up to date in that area.

I see that Exxon is diabetic "due to illness?" Is he on insulin? Often infection or illness can cause high blood sugar in diabetic or pre-diabetic cats, but many end up up quickly reaching remission when the diet has been changed and the illness has resolved, so it's important to keep a close eye on the blood sugar of those cats.
 
The bottom line is cats don't need much, if any, carbs. In nature, felines are carnivores. Any doctor pushing carbohydrate fillers on my cat gets some serious side-eye. Cats have not evolved to eat carbs in the 5 or 6 decades we've had commercial food. That's not how evolution works.

Science Diet dry food is mediocre at best. Many grocery store brands kick it out of the water in terms of nutrient composition - the fat and protein matters here.
The wet food is okay, but you can get nutritionally identical food for much less money.
 
I am new here and not an expert by far ! But your conversation at the vet office is the exact same as the one that I with my vet once she had diagnosed my cat with diabetes... I have been back and forth to her alot in the past 4 weeks & once I had learned from this forum how bad the dry food is told her my thoughts and had evidence printed for her to read, but still she said the royal Canin for diabetes was the best thing I could give him- I didnt listen to her I listened to the forum and the wealth of experince here.. & im glad that I did as now since switching to the low carb wet food, Snafu is now off insulin and appears to be normal .
I called other vets in my area (limited for choice here in Qatar) but before I even asked for an appointment I asked about treatment of feline diabetes and what food would they recommend , the second vet said the same thing prescription dry food . I assume that they all have some sort of partnership of privelages from the dry food companies . I was also told not to belive all the hog wash on the internet ...
But Snafu is proof that it works - I now feed him Fancy feat classic and just test twice a day and will continue with this regime
 
Kiara said:
The wet food is okay, but you can get nutritionally identical food for much less money.
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Larry and Kitties said:
The Hills canned is OK but is expensive and necessary.
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Did something change with the Hills' canned prescription foods since I last checked (which was a couple years ago, mind you)? Last I knew, there was no Hills food, Prescription or Science Diet, that was appropriate to feed a diabetic cat. All Hills canned food has always been higher than 10% carbs (usually in the 20+% range, which is very high for canned foods). They use an extraordinary amount of corn fillers in most of their canned foods. I googled a few foods and checked the ingredients to see if any recipes had changed, but they all look the same to me.

Purina Prescription DM canned is ok for diabetic cats, but nearly nutritionally identical to several canned commerical Purina foods (like Fancy Feast and Purina One), so not really worth the amount you pay for it. There are premium foods with higher quality ingredients that cost the same or less to feed.
 
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cetrax said:
Hello. I discover my cat has been diagnosed with diabetes. So of course I am overwhelmed, scared and believing everything my vet is telling me.

She sells me a bag of Hills dry food, and Hills canned food. I go home. Time to educated myself on cat diabetes! While doing this I learn Hills is not good? Cat's need their food to be under 10% carbs and Hill is high in carbs.

I take the online advice and begin the progress of transitioning my cat to wet food (Friskies Classic). By the way before this happened I had no idea dry food was bad for cats! Lol..

I go to the vet this morning to get my cat's BG tested. I share with her what I have learned. I told her I read online that it is high in carbs and a diabetic cat needs to eat food that has under 10% carbs. She shook her head. She said Hills does have carbs but it is high in protein and I have seen plenty of animals get "regulated" and be able to come off of insulin by eating this food. Then she said you can't believe everything you read online. Aggghhh...

So who is correct here. My vet the so called "degree educated expert" or the people who live with and love their cats? My bet is on us but I would appreciate to here what everyone thinks about this.

Thanks, Steve...

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Hello Steve! I'm really glad you found FDMB. My cat was recently diagnosed with diabetes as well (9/14/15). I had the same conversation with my vet and decided to go with w/d wet food.

Here is some good reading on Prescription Food > http://www.soggypaws.com/Documents/prescription_diet.pdf

It seems to me prescription food companies work much like the drug industry with humans--courting doctors and placing products/ads in vet offices. It's about money and fantastic marketing. The pet food world is overwhelming enough, let alone trying to pick something ideal for a diabetic cat. When you first receive diagnosis, who wouldn't want to immediately give their cat the "best" thing they can afford, especially something that says "glucose management" on it?

My cat is now on Fancy Feast Classics wet food w/ 1tbs pumpkin and he is doing very well. Check out his chart, he hasn't had any insulin in 4 days and has maintained perfectly normal glucose levels. Every cat is different, and I am no expert but I hope something I shared here today can help you or someone else.

You also might find something helpful in this thread > http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/diet-prescription-vs-otc-vs-raw.145101/

Good Luck!
 
Julia & Bandit said:
Many vets have not kept up to date with the current nutrition recommendations for cats (diabetic or not). They have a financial incentive to sell prescription foods and the pet food companies marketing the foods are feeding them information that suits their (the pet food companies') needs and not necessarily the needs of the animals. There's nothing scientific about prescription foods--if you ask your vet to explain how the protein/fat/carb content differs nutritionally than commercial foods, she won't be able to. Doesn't mean she's a bad vet--just that she's not up to date in that area.
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I second this. If you talk to the 5+ vets within our town, they have all different opinions on what's best for a diabetic cat, but many push the prescription foods. But then if you talk to a vet that's up to date on feline diabetes or is a cat specialist, they will tell you the vast majority of the time that they want the cat on a low carb, high protein non-prescription canned food. I think Sprocket's human (@Darnell ) is struggling with a similar issue too, and I know it can be confusing, but hang in there. All any of us can do is make the best decisions possible with the info we have!
 
I had THREE vets recommend the prescription food. I finally gave in and tried the Hills dry. The last vet explained that even though it IS high in carbs, that those carbs are not digestible carbs (ie: they don't count towards total carb content). I disagree.

My experience was this: I started the Hills and within 24 hours her glucose increased over 100 points. It remained that way for 2 or 3 days.
I stopped the Hills and resumed the cheaper Friskies canned food and her glucose immediately returned to the way it was before the Hills. I told this to the vet. She didn't seem convinced, but said to return the bag. I'm not sure if the vets get a "kick back" for selling this food or what, but for me it made Brandy WORSE, NOT better. This was my experience with MY cat. I can't speak for other cats. If you home test, you can discover with hard data what works and what doesn't. I know it's super confusing, trust me! I have literally gotten 3 different opinions from 3 different vets on food and what type of insulin, etc. One vet said Novolin was garbage..Two others recommended it and use it exclusively. Who the hell knows. They are not as informed on diabetic care as we would think they would be. Hang in there.
 
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Coral is the poster cat for low carb food! Take a look at her spreadsheet. Her diagnosis was on 6/19. She went on Nature's Variety Limited Ingredient Diet Turkey 100% on 9/6 and a month later 10/5 she is OTJ. Fortunately, she has had no skin reactions from the new food, which is why she was on Hill's Z/D for skin allergies.
 
Julia & Bandit said:
I see that Exxon is diabetic "due to illness?" Is he on insulin? Often infection or illness can cause high blood sugar in diabetic or pre-diabetic cats, but many end up up quickly reaching remission when the diet has been changed and the illness has resolved, so it's important to keep a close eye on the blood sugar of those cats.
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I think that is exactly the case. Exxon was sneezing only so I took him to the vet. He was given a shot of Convenia (although she didn't tell me the name of the antibiotic or any risks it might have- I should have asked though). The next morning (Saturday) he was drooling from the nose and mouth, not eating, and constantly opening and closing his mouth like he couldn't breath. I called the vet emergency number and paid the emergency fee so he could be seen. I asked the vet if it could have been the shot? She said it was a broad spectrum antibiotic (still didn't tell me the name of it and yes I didn't ask- kicking myself) and in all her years of using it she had never seen a cat have an allergic reaction to it. She gave Exxon a steroid shot to help with his reaction. (didn't tell me the name of that either).

Fast forward to Sunday night and I think Exxon is going to die. I rush him in first thing Monday morning. Vet says, Oh yes he is much worse he needs to be hospitalized. Long story short he was in animal hospital for a week on IV. During this time they tell me he is diabetic. His levels were over 400 and it took 4.5 units of insulin to bring him down. I pick him up this past Monday morning. Follow her instructions, buy the expensive, crappy Hills food, and take Exxon home. Oh by the way the I asked the vet about home testing and she was like, I don't know how you would home test a cat? I said I saw online you can do it with an prick. She was like that's crazy just bring him back in Thursday morning for a BG level.

So Monday night I give him 4.5 shot with u40 syringe, and I do the same Tuesday morning. Through the good people on here I discovered giving a shot without testing first is VERY dangerous. On their prompting I went to Walmart that night and started testign Exxon before I fed him. Bought Reli On Confirm Meter and Strips. Oh I also bought Friskies Classics and ditched the Hills garbage! LOL.

I tested him Tuesday night pre meal and got: 76 mg/dl. So no shot that night. I tested him Wed morning pre meal (this time using 3 strips) 67, 84, 61, so no shot Wed morning. I tested him Wed night pre meal I tested twice and got 86, 83, so no
shot then either.

I called the vet Wed afternoon to get the name of the medications he was given: Friday sept 25th Exxon was given a shot of Convenia. Saturday he was given a Steroid shot of: Dexamethazone.While he was hospitalized he was given via IV antibiotic: Cefazoline. Thanks to the GREAT people on here I discovered the Reaction most likely DID come from Convenia and due to my recent (favorable) test results it is likely that my cat may has Transient Diabetes brought on by the illness and the Steriod shot!

I shared this with my vet today when I took him for testing. She seemed indifferent about it and said, I have never seen a cat get a reaction to Convenia and the diabetes did not come from the Cefazoline shot. I said, well it came from somewhere and now it appears to be gone or better? I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. When she tested him with her animal meter (looks like a regular meter) the results were 135. Keep in mind that Exxon was in the waiting room fro 40 minutes with loud barking dogs.

I'm taking him back tomorrow for another BG level. I am taking mine this time with strips to see the difference. I do expect mine (human meter) to be a little lower than hers. I have been very scared, frustrated and disappointed by this whole experince. Not to mention the financial strain it has put on me as well. All things consiidered I have spent about $1,000 through this whole ordeal.
 
Coral also had two shots of Convenia, one in Dec 2014 and another in Mar 2015. She was also given two shots of Depo Medrol at the same time. From what I have researched the thought is that these drugs don't cause diabetes they "unmask it." Whatever that may mean?
 
cetrax said:
She seemed indifferent about it and said, I have never seen a cat get a reaction to Convenia and the diabetes did not come from the Cefazoline shot. I said, well it came from somewhere and now it appears to be gone or better?
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No, the diabetes didn't come fromt the cefazoline shot, it came from the Dexamethazone he had on Saturday! It's one of the two most common steroids that cause transient diabetes. I commented on your other thread about it: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-advice-new-diabetic-cat.145565/#post-1512112

I'm sorry that you're going through all this. Honestly, BG levels in the vets office are waste of money. Cats often have elevated BG levels due to stress, and it goes back down once they're home again. It's why we never adjust insulin doses off of BG values obtained in the vet's office. If you're home testing, you can get your own BG levels to show her--I have mine in a spreadsheet that I share with Bandit's vet(s). He has never had an in-office curve, because I've been fortunate that all three of Bandit's vets over the past 6 years have been strong advocates for home monitoring diabetic cats.
 
MaineLove said:
Coral also had two shots of Convenia, one in Dec 2014 and another in Mar 2015. She was also given two shots of Depo Medrol at the same time. From what I have researched the thought is that these drugs don't cause diabetes they "unmask it." Whatever that may mean?
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I don't think the Convenia caused the Diabetes either.
I do believe the Convenia caused the allergic reaction that almost killed him. (drooling, shaking, no eating, trouble breathing, constant opening and closing of mouth).

I believe the Dexamethazone shot on Saturday along with the stress of his allergic reaction, already being sick, stuffed in a little cage at the vet for a week caused the Transient diabetes.

My plan is to get Exxon thru this whole ordeal and the start looking for another vet.
 
Julia & Bandit said:
Honestly, BG levels in the vets office are waste of money. Cats often have elevated BG levels due to stress, and it goes back down once they're home again.
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Steve, I would suggest taking a BG reading just before you leave for the vet's office, as well as when you get there. That way you'll have that to show her the comparison of how much higher he is at the office than when he's at home and not stressed.
 
Squalliesmom said:
I would suggest taking a BG reading just before you leave for the vet's office, as well as when you get there. That way you'll have that to show her the comparison of how much higher he is at the office than when he's at home and not stressed
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Hey! That's a great idea.
I still have a little trouble with the ear prick thing. I have watched all the videos on it but it still seems to take me 2 or 3 tries to get it. I hate that!!!

Anybody got any advice or tips on how they do it that may help?
 
Here's something I wrote up for others for testing...maybe it'll help you too!

It can be really helpful to establish a routine with testing. Pick one spot that you want your "testing spot" to be (I like the kitchen counter because it's got good light and it's at a good height....it also already blocked 2 escape routes due to the wall and the backsplash) It can be anywhere though...a rug on the floor, a table, a particular spot on the couch...wherever is good for you. Take him there as many times a day as you can and just give his ears a quick rub and then he gets a yummy (low carb) treat. Most cats aren't objecting so much with the poking..it's the fooling with their ears they don't like, but once they're desensitized to it and learn to associate a certain place with the treats, they usually start to come when they're called! Or even when they hear us opening the test kit!

You also have to remember...you're not poking him to hurt him...you're testing him to keep him safe and understand what's going on inside his body. There's just nothing better than truly understanding what's going on inside your kitty's body and with this disease, the more knowledge you have, the more power you have against it. The edges of the ears have very few pain receptors, so it really doesn't hurt them. Also, if you're nervous and tense, it's going to make your kitty nervous and tense too. As silly as it might seem, try singing! It forces you to use a different part of your brain!

It's also important to make sure his ear is warm. A small sock filled with a little rice and microwaved or a small pill bottle filled with warm water (check temp against your wrist like you would a baby bottle) works well

For new kitties, using a heavier gauge lancet is also really helpful. A 25-28 gauge lancet pokes a bigger "hole" than a 31-33 gauge lancet does, so look for "Alternate Site testing" lancets that are usually a lower number

Finding the right "treat" will be a great help too! Freeze dried chicken, bonito flakes, little pieces of baked chicken...whatever low carb treat you can find that he really enjoys will help him to associate the testing with the treat! China's Achilles heel was baked chicken, so I'd bake a piece, chop it into bite sized pieces, put some in the refrigerator and freeze the rest to use as needed. It didn't take long for her to come any time I picked up the meter!
 
Hey Bobbie...I use bonito flakes AND chicken pieces. I keep the bonito in a small airtight tuperware thingy. The flakes kinda deteriorate to 'powder' after abit, they are pretty delicate..so I toss chicken bites in there to coat them & use up every last bit! Tucker loves this.
 
Tucker&Me said:
Sorry for 2 posts..! Internet wonkiness.
BTW: I buy the bonito flakes at a Japanese grocery vs online. It's 2.49 a bag, vs 7.95! Plus shipping..no way!
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I went to a local Asian store and they didn't carry them. I know, at the pet stores it's highway robbery! Good idea with putting the chicken pieces in the Bonito crumbs. Do you use Stella and Chewy or Pure Bites?
 
@Bobbie And Bubba , my cats are big fan of the Origen cat treats: http://www.orijen.ca/products/cat-food/freeze-dried-cat-treats/. If you click on a flavor there's a "where to buy" button. You can also order them online.

I like that they are already treat sized so I don't have to break them up. :-) I also still buy freeze dried Salmon at Petsmart, too because Bandit loves salmon and I sometimes use the dust to roll his pill pockets in when he's being a jerk about eating his pill pockets and then spitting out his pill.
 
Julia & Bandit said:
@Bobbie And Bubba , my cats are big fan of the Origen cat treats: http://www.orijen.ca/products/cat-food/freeze-dried-cat-treats/. If you click on a flavor there's a "where to buy" button. You can also order them online.

I like that they are already treat sized so I don't have to break them up. :) I also still buy freeze dried Salmon at Petsmart, too because Bandit loves salmon and I sometimes use the dust to roll his pill pockets in when he's being a jerk about eating his pill pockets and then spitting out his pill.
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Thanks for the link and the tip for pilling.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Thanks for the link and the tip for pilling.
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No prob--another tip about pill pockets, if you use them--they stopped making the diabetic safe ones for cats a few years ago (boo), but they still make them for dogs and the recipe is the same, they're just bigger. So I just use half of one of the small dog ones, and they work great and you don't have to worry about little spikes in BG from corn syrup.
 
Julia & Bandit said:
No prob--another tip about pill pockets, if you use them--they stopped making the diabetic safe ones for cats a few years ago (boo), but they still make them for dogs and the recipe is the same, they're just bigger. So I just use half of one of the small dog ones, and they work great and you don't have to worry about little spikes in BG from corn syrup.
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Thanks for that! I didn't even know they had them for diabetic pets. Do the pet stores carry or is it a online order?
 
@Bobbie And Bubba

Oh, yeah--I get them at Petsmart. Petco has them, too, I believe. Not sure about the other chains. You just have to go looking in the dog medicine section.

I just bought a bag last night, and the person ahead of me in line asked, "Do those work well for your dog?" and I was like, "Yes, absolutely--but they're for my cat." She gave me a weird look so I explained he was diabetic and they don't make the sugar free cat ones anymore. She was amazed that my cat would eat them, because they were dog treats. I explained that Bandit doesn't know that there's a dog on the front of the package. :)

They're labeled "Allergy Formula," but there's no added sugars so they are also diabetic safe.
 
cetrax said:
I don't think the Convenia caused the Diabetes either.
I do believe the Convenia caused the allergic reaction that almost killed him. (drooling, shaking, no eating, trouble breathing, constant opening and closing of mouth).

I believe the Dexamethazone shot on Saturday along with the stress of his allergic reaction, already being sick, stuffed in a little cage at the vet for a week caused the Transient diabetes.

My plan is to get Exxon thru this whole ordeal and the start looking for another vet.
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Hi Steve, how is Exxon doing now, and how did the visit to the vet go?

While I was looking at some info from another thread, I ran across this and thought you might like to see this and act on it:
" ...strongly urge you to insist that your veterinarian file an adverse drug event (ADE) report with Zoetis (formerly Pfizer Animal Health).

In addition to your veterinarian filing a report, you should also contact Zoetis.

According to the FDA, any company receiving an adverse reaction report must report it to the FDA. I have no opinion or knowledge to comment on whether this is actually done in every case but I would strongly suggest that a follow-up complaint also be registered with the FDA. I am not willing to trust that every company will report every ADE report that comes to them.

Here is a link to information for consumer reporting of an adverse drug event with the FDA:

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/SafetyHealth/Reporta

Problem/ucm055305.htm

Information from Zoetis' website:

https://online.zoetis.com/us/en/contact/pages/contactus.aspx

To report an adverse event, please contact Zoetis at (888) 963-8471. (Old Pfizer information: (800) 366-5288 or (855) 424-7349.)"

This is taken from a link to Convenia from www.catinfo.com, authored by Lisa A. Pierson, DVM.

Please give us an update on Exxon, hope he is doing well!!
 
Julia & Bandit said:
they don't make the sugar free cat ones anymore. She was amazed that my cat would eat them, because they were dog treats. I explained that Bandit doesn't know that there's a dog on the front of the package. :)
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@Julia & Bandit - Was just reading through this thread & saw this: Brilliant response! You just gave me my first really good laugh of the morning - thanks!!!:D
 
cetrax said:
Hey! That's a great idea.
I still have a little trouble with the ear prick thing. I have watched all the videos on it but it still seems to take me 2 or 3 tries to get it. I hate that!!!

Anybody got any advice or tips on how they do it that may help?
Click to expand...

Ear pricking took me 3 weeks to get. I have to hold the warm rice sock for 2-3 minutes... seriously - the whole 2-3 minutes... and then he bleeds right away. A lancet pen really helped. I was using a lancet by hand before
 
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